*
Ref: Issue 143 Kitchen & Bath annual issue. “All about diswashers” (bottom of page 98)
Next to the lower left picture, Roe Osborn mentions: “It’s little wonder that drinking glasses turn cloudy or that decorative glazes are erased….”
I have emailed FHB but did not get an answer. I have had the problem of cloudy glasses on several crystal ones since few years and, though my wife has spent a lot of time and purchased a lot of products she never ended up solving this issue.
Lately, a friend of mine visited us and suggested that we try “sodium hydroxyde at 30.5% concentration diluted in water. We tried this and, finally, after one or two hours the glasses were left without any cloud.
By the way, I also used the same product to clean the front glass of my chemney. In 5 minutes I did remove all the black soot that I had such difficulty to remove even when using expansive products.
Safety precautions has to be applied with this type of product: special gloves that holds chemical attack and, eventually goggles.
Claude
Replies
*
Thanks Claude,
Where do you buy such a product?
*Piffin, go to a chemical supply house. NaOH aka Caustic Soda comes in pellets, flakes or as a 50% liquid. All 3 are dangerous, both for being corrosive to skin and for releasing a LOT of heat when mixed with water. NEVER add water to caustic soda, always add the NaOH to the water a little bit at a time and stir until dissolved, then add a little bit more. Wear goggles and rubber gloves. I don't know the dilution to clean glass, but estimating as a former chemist I'd start at about 10% NaOh by weight in water.
*I haven't looked in years but can't you still buy lye at the supermarket?
*Thanks for the translation from the chemical name. HS chemistry class is way far back long time ago.
*Be extremely careful with lye solution. It worked wonderfully to take rust stains out of my glass drinking water container, but while it was soaking someone took a swig out of the jug causing the interior of his mouth to ulcerate very badly. If he hadn't had the presence of mind to spit instead of swallow--i hate to think.
*Uh, won't vinegar do the job on the crystal and on the drinking water jug, if used regularly?
*I run glass stuff thru the dishwasher using white vinegar and baking soda. Spiffs them up beautifully and doesn't craze the glass. Regular dishwashing det. contains an abrasive and eventually you can't get the cloudyness out of the glassware because it scratches the surface of the glass. Works with fine china too. Just make sure the glass and china don't knock around in there.Mary
*The film has its origin in too much dw soap and too low of a temp. Self heating dw units are cool in that you don't have to scald everyone with water tank heat increases. It just like any water/detergent mix. You need the right product in the right amount for your water type(hard, soft, softened, iron, etc) Call your water district. They will tell the full on chemistry of the water. Then call the 800 # on a few detergent boxes. You may be surprised how helpful those people can be. Call several different ones to keep em honest.
*Claude,Same problem at my house. Solved by reducing DW detergent dosage by half of the allotted manufacturers dispenser capacity and reinstating the use of the "spots away" dispenser chemical.I agree with NOT using NaOH..........very caustic. Too strong for the problem. Too dangerous for normal DIY or contractor usage---quick skin burns and permanent instant eye damage. Take it from an ex-chem instructor................Iron Helix
*Until my wife straightened me out, I always assumed that one was supposed to fill the d/w cups all the way with soap. She whipped out the owners manual and sure enough it says check with the soap box. Ours says generally fill dw cup only 1/3 to 1/2 full. We use an environmentally friendly soap (which the mainstream brands are not) and have no problems whatever.
*Sorry Theodora but we have tried vinegar without success. We also tried hydrochloric acid and ammonia.In fact we never had this experience before though our crystal glasses are 39 years old and have always been washed in a dishwashing machines. The problem occured when we came to the french riviera and used a 20 years old dishwashing machine.
*Funnily enough the article in KItchens and baths mentions that the use of large quantities of diswashing detergent and too high temperature gives that type of result on glasses and not too low temperature? Who is correct and who is wrong in this statement?
*This is exactly what I did: buying the lye in a supermarket
*I agree with you that this product is extremely dangerous. But: - I did not make the mix so the danger of mixing the wrong way has to be set aside - the mix in the purchased bottle is only a 30.5% mix. Furthermore I used two or three table spoon in one liter of water thus reducing even further the concentration.In fact that product was the only one I tried that cured the problem of the clouds on my crystal glasses. These being 39 years old cannot be replaced as they are not anymore manufacturedThe product is sold for several applications: - woodstripper - tiles strippers - paint stripper but also - unclog pipesbut on the instructions it is mentioned that only one to 3 tablespoon of product should be mixed to 1 liter of water for a 1st test. Concentration may be increased if necessary.My wife has just cleaned the joints of the tiles covering the countertop in our kitchen. THese were white but, there again, different products were tried to clean them. With the sodium hydroxyde, the job was easy and done in few minutes.
*We also use the "spots away" product. We also use a water softener.Honestly I do not know what brought this result on some glasses.
*If Tang cleans the dishwasher, would it help the glasses?Rich Beckman
*Like one respondent suggested it may not be a film that is causing the cloudiness in the glasses. It could be abrasion if indeed the dishwashing detergent contains abrasives. Sodium hydroxide that is concentrated to the point that no more will dissolve in water( what chemists call concentrated) will dissolve glass. That is why is is sold and stored in plastic containers. Do be careful. It is very effective in dissolving human flesh.I buy Red Devil brand lye(sodium hydroxide, NaOH) at the supermarket or hardware store. It is marketed to clean out sink trapsThe Wood Doctor
*I would not try to do any mixing of sodium hydroxide at home. This is what the Material Safety Data Sheet says:¡§Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing. Corrosive to skin. Even a small amount in the eye can cause blindness. Do not swallow. Avoid breathing dusts or mists from solutions. Use only with adequate ventilation. Ventilation must be sufficient to limit employee exposure to this product below permissible exposure limits. When making solutions or diluting, only add caustic soda slowly to surface of cold water while stirring. Do not add to warm or hot water, a violent eruption or explosive reaction can result. Avoid contact with organic materials and concentrated acids ¡V may cause violent reactions. Caustic soda reacts with magnesium, aluminum, zinc (galvanized), tin, chromium, brass and bronze, generating hydrogen, which is explosive. Caustic soda may react with various sugars to generate carbon monoxide. Hazardous carbon monoxide gas can form upon contact with food and beverage products in enclosed vessels and can cause death. Wash thoroughly after handling. Do not eat, drink, or smoke in work area. Liquid caustic soda is shipped hot (100-180 „aF). Avoid skin contact ¡V can cause thermal burns.¡¨¡§Upon contact with the skin, damage including redness, cutaneous burns, skin fissures, and white eschars may occur without immediate pain. Exposure to solutions as weak as 0.12% for 1 hour has caused injury to healthy skin. Solutions of 25% to 50% caused no sensation of irritation within 3 minutes in human subjects. With solutions of 0.4% to 4% irritation does not occur until after several hours. Skin biopsies from human subjects showed progressive changes beginning with dissolution of the cells in the horny layer and progressing through edema to total destruction of the epidermis in 60 minutes¡K. Alkalis penetrate the skin slowly. The extent of injury depends on the duration of contact. If sodium hydroxide is not removed from the skin, severe burns with deep ulceration may occur¡¨¡§Eye contact may cause disintegration and sloughing of conjunctival and corneal epithelium, corneal opacification, marked edema and ulceration. After 7 to 13 days either gradual recovery begins or there is a progression of ulceration and corneal opacification¡KBlindness may occur.¡¨
*No Tang would not clean the cloud on the glasses unfortunately.As mentionned in my first message we have tried everything. The only product that cleaned the glasses was the one that has been stated in several messages.
*Yes this is exactly the way it is marketed in France and sold in the supermarkets. It is not concentrated. However it is clearly stated that this is a dangerous product, that gloves and gogles should be used.Since I got the product ay home, I tried to clean the glass in front of my chemney, glass that gets dark after using the chemney 2 or 3 times. I have used several products sold for that purpose but the job was tough and long. I tried the sodium hydroxide (with gloves and gogle) and that clean the glass in few minutes. What a pleasure.
*What about the gaskets of the dishwasher? Wouldn't the use of such harsh chemicals reduce the expected lifespan of the gaskets? I recall reading an item in the newspaper ( perhaps Hints from Heloise or similar ) about using Tang to clean rust spots from the dishwasher. There was a caution that the acidic nature of the Tang could adversely affect the gaskets. I don't know if this is true or not, but it might be worth considering before adding non-manufacturer-approved substances to the dishwasher.
*
Ref: Issue 143 Kitchen & Bath annual issue. "All about diswashers" (bottom of page 98)
Next to the lower left picture, Roe Osborn mentions: "It's little wonder that drinking glasses turn cloudy or that decorative glazes are erased...."
I have emailed FHB but did not get an answer. I have had the problem of cloudy glasses on several crystal ones since few years and, though my wife has spent a lot of time and purchased a lot of products she never ended up solving this issue.
Lately, a friend of mine visited us and suggested that we try "sodium hydroxyde at 30.5% concentration diluted in water. We tried this and, finally, after one or two hours the glasses were left without any cloud.
By the way, I also used the same product to clean the front glass of my chemney. In 5 minutes I did remove all the black soot that I had such difficulty to remove even when using expansive products.
Safety precautions has to be applied with this type of product: special gloves that holds chemical attack and, eventually goggles.
Claude