I don’t know what it is about a single woman (usually with children, divorced,) but I turn into a white knight and leave my business hat in the truck. (At least half of my clients are divorced females.)
Yesterday I went out to meet a woman and discuss her various projects. This was the 3rd trip. She owns several old (but large) shingle style New England houses, both in need to some restoration work, some of it serious. I wanted to finalize her prioities to solidify an estimate and contract.
As I’m unloading some gear, she asks if I could open her side garage door; seems it was stuck. In a move I later regretted, I said sure. Seemed harmless enough. The door wouldn’t budge (wooden rail and panel door, you guess the problem.) Turns out the bottom and middle rail had separated (1/4″ gap) and bound in the jambs. After popping the door open, I suggested she buy some polyurethane glue and clamp the thing back together. And while you’re at it, buy a new lock set, the existing one is just about junk.
Off she went to HD while I took pictures and poked and prodded the multitude of areas in various stages of decomposition. As I was getting ready to leave, she returns with Gorilla glue and lockset. You can guess what happened next. She wanted to know if I could glue it for her. Clamps? They were in my other truck, sitting at home, a round trip of 45 minutes away.
So I went home, got clamps, came back, glued it up and set it aside. Bubbles foaming reassured her all would be great. But I would have to come back and install it, right? Fours hours later (and a butt-chewing by DW for working darn near the whole day for not a red cent) I went back, unclamped, hung the door and installed the lockset.
She arrived as I was again ready to leave, and OBTW, could I help her put in her window AC unit. So sure, I then informed her that she didn’t need me, she needed a husband. She laughed, and said good-bye.
Long, sad story, and I know it was my own fault for agreeing to do anything without defining the costs first, but damn-it, her two little blond haired girls smiled at me and reminded me of 10 years ago when my own were their age and wasn’t it a shame they had no father…
So how do you NOT get involved with the problems (around the house) of single women with their sweet innocent girls smiling up at you?
The wife is pizzed! What do I do next time?
Replies
don't tell the wife!
Say ya were fishing.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Too late, she knows. What she doesn't know is that when this lady is standing there, her arms around the two blond little blue-eyed cuties, I turn to mush.
Or maybe she does know; we've been married 21 years.
And she knows I hate fishing.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Take the wife witrh you, and let her be the business manager while you handle the technical side.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Sounds like it would work, except for two problems: she works day shift at the hospital, and DW's idea of balancing the checkbook is to try to spend less than you deposit. And if you don't always succeed, deposit more.
My dog has more business sense than my wife, and she knows it. Both the dog and the wife.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
GREAT ANSWER!!!!!!
Next time realize that they are divorced for a reason, and chances are good she was at least 50% of the problem. Look at them as a job(for money) and nothing more. Then realize she's taking you for a sucker......
(At least half of my clients are divorced females.)
DO YOU NEED A PARTNER!!!???
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
LMAO!!! No, I'm fighting them off fine by myself.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
LOL, I don't think fighting them off is what T had in mind.
Just like spammers circulate lists of the suckers who respond, and hobos used to mark houses where synmpathetic matrons lived, your name has been added to the local divorcees gazette, unlimited.
BTW, if you are doing this for free, you don't have any more business sense than your wife, or your dog. I'll bet that your dog remembers where the bones are buried, at least.
You are feeling emotionally invested in those soft eyes. Meanwhile, this gal owns several investment properties. How many do you own? If you let emotions lead you into investing more time in divorcees, you wife might become one. Then she can get your attention..
Excellence is its own reward!
Ouch. That hurt. It's true I get emotionally involved; I have a soft spot for the kids, who are the victims in these situations. And I appreciate your words of caution. But my wife knows all, and I can not lie to her. I would be the worlds biggest fool to desert what I have, and no one knows it better than I.
And my dog has never buried a bone in her life. A bone is food, and food is to be eaten ASAP. Anything left over is not edible.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Nick,
With me it's the little old widow women. Last one poormouthed the whole time and got freebies, then said she had to cash in some of those stock things her late husband bought in 1924. That's why I like to work for lawyers, love to hear them scream and weep. One moaned "But we'll have to cancel our sky trip". Gotta love it.
KK
Last widow I worked for wrote the check out for an additional $250 for the freebies, way more than they were worth. So you never know.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Edited 7/26/2003 6:14:13 PM ET by NickNuke'em
I worked for a guy about 20 years ago and a widowed senior citizen came ito the shop during our lunch. She asked if we could fix something that her late husband never finished. When done, she asked how much and I said nothing. She was so happy and appreciative that she told ALL her friends. With in the next 6 months, these "Leisure Worlders" came out of the woodworks(punn intended). One asked me to fix something and when I was done, she walked away, didn't offer anything for the time or didn't even say thank you.
It's funny, if the lady yesterday had asked, "how much?" I would have given her a modest figure, just enough to cover my time. But she didn't offer, and I was sure I would have felt like a cad if I brought it up.
Had a divorcee 2 weeks ago who gave me a bonus because she felt I had underestimated the job. She's since given me a referral. (another divorsee-with children. Piffin was right, I'm on some kind of hot line or something.)
I never met a tool I didn't like!
I KNOW that these hot lines exist. One winter, I got about fifty bathrooms to do, one after another. It was a hard wointer so I was glaad of it but I started to get claustrophobic by spring from the small spaces..
Excellence is its own reward!
I got put on the no call list a few years ago. I learned one important opening line. Seventy five bucks an hour plus materials. When they gasp, I explain that's the after hours rate that electrical contractors charge. And anything I do is gonna be after hours. I also like to throw in the fact that I'm not insured, and it's not smart to hire someone without insurance.
My old boss used to do a lot of freebies and he went bankrupt. I don't think anyone that anyone he helped out filed for bankruptcy. Who Dares Wins.
yep it scarey but we think along the same lines. Ill now say 450.00 minimum plus materials. Thats usually the end of the conversation.
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
Rather than suggesting she buy some polyurethane glue and clamp the thing back together, tell her you could glue the door back up for $X.xx. Get it out there right from the start that nothing is free except for your estimate.
It would be a delicate proposition to balance the price to make it worth your while at the same time you are trying to get some serious work from her.
It has been said before here many times your running a business not a charity.
BTW my sister does it to me all the time and yep, she is a divorcee. The most payment I can hope for is a night of watching the kid so me and DW can go out.
Didn't Boss Hogg get suckered in to fix a garage door by some 10 year old's blue eyes a while back?
Bill H
You're right. Your recommendation is polite, couteous, and business-like. And I'll sure try to remember to use it next time. Of course, I'll have to ignore the eyes. Those sad, adorable eyes. . . Puppy dog's eyes.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Oh, I see, it's the kid's eyes. I had this vision of a Barbara Eden Divorcee`.
Anyway, Waht I'd try to do in such a situation is say that I'll try to work it into the job when I am back to do the other. That kind of presumes that I will get the other job - the big one, and it is a bait for the customer.
Another way I have of keeping from getting hookedinto things like this is that I keep all my tools in the cube van which is on the job, except for days that I'm out on scheduled service work and small jobs. " I can't do that right now because I don't have my tools in the pickup truck but I'll be glad top plan on it when I can get back this way...." .
Excellence is its own reward!
The blond cutie-pie of about 4 with her blue eyes and dripping mapel walnut ice cream cone, asking me what's my name and how come I have so many tools. They get me every time.
My DW is sharper than a tack in a room full of balloons. I only have eyes for her. (And those big round innocent eye's that deserve so much more.)
Thanks for the suggestion, one I will employ at the next opportunity.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Yea I learned the hardway it seemed the ones who wanted the freebies were also the most critical and nit picky. I decided no more. the last attempt someone had for a freebie was this little hottie at a party she saw some of my work that I did for the wifes cousin and she told me that she needed a built in book case made for her home office. I kind of hesitated (for about 30 seconds) then she said "I can pay you" I told her "I know you will" it was the last time she talked to me at the party and them last freebie I was asked to do even by the cousin...lifes been good...
Darkworks: No Guns No Butter squilla and the bling bling.
It happens to us women contractors too, and the child's eyes are very hard to resist. I usually only ever get a tape measure and the pencil and note pad out of the car. The tools are in the trunk if I need em, but they stay hidden unless I choose to give in.
That said if it is a serious situation, ie a safety issue, I will give the freebee. Hoping to gain the extra work.
Theresa
I know, Me too. I ended up putting a whole roof on a a house for an older couple who were deaf and dumb and she with a disease.
I arranged for the Community Fund to pay materials and I did the labor.
That got me on a list too! Three other oldsters wanting freebies. They got kind of ugly when I turned them down.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
so once we are on the list how do we get back off?
Theresa Riley--Honeydoos--Irving, Texas
so once we are on the list how do we get back off?
If you have a compassionate heart but are just overwhelmed by the "opportunities" to use it, I would suggest that a better approach than "getting off the list" would be to better manage it. Why not schedule the items on it to be carried out by a full crew of volunteers once a month or so.
There is a member of my congregation who regularly helps the older folks of our community with their unmet needs. He keeps a running list of items that need to be taken care of and we schedule a work day where several of us get together and knock out as many of the home and church maintenance items as possible. It helps a lot to have a scheduled day, with lots of help, to set these charitable opportunities aside for. That leaves the remainder of the month to focus on taking care of your business, and the occasional help out project, without neglecting the folks the good Lord has asked us to take care of.
One caution - with this approach, anyone with construction expertise can find themselves responsible for a tremendous workload if they don't know how to delegate and say, "that's enough." The church should be fully focused on meeting the needs of the community in the name of Christ but, just like any charitable program, the opportunity for excess is there. Saying no to church sponsored charitable opportunities that get out of hand is a difficult balancing act. I've learned (and honestly am still learning) the hard way that the best approach is to be honest with yourself and everyone involved rather than over commit and end up failing to meet all of your commitments. Especially the commitments we've made to be there for our families.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Nick, are you sure you are married? What is with this eye stuff? Go home and . . . well . . . see the little women!
Do you remember my thread called " Extortion and a Moral Dilema" ? It kinda runs along the same line...........(-:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=26170.1
I'm a sucker for those little girls too.
A modest little person, with much to be modest about. [Winston Churchill] (about Clement Atlee)
"She owns several old (but large) shingle style New England houses"
How many houses do you own, Charity Man?
Don't be so hard on him over this!
Which one of us hasn't had this happen to him?
Only after we have more experience, don't underestimate our skill, AND getting sick and tired of coming up SHORT on OUR bills, do we have a change in attitude!
I could not resist.....can I tell you something from the perspective of a divorcee?
Even though I've done much of the work on my own house building project, there have been several times I've wanted to hire sub-contractors only to have them offer their services for free...this sets up an awkward situation, whether the man is married or single. I can't tell wether the person is motivated to give out of a generous spirit or an ulterior motive...always give a fair estimate for your labor...it makes things easier both ways...
If on the other hand, you discover she can't afford your labor, don't assume she can't learn how to do some things herself...her learning new things will teach her children that no matter what your circumstance one can always learn...if she needs hands on help and your heart is moved by her circumstances, congratulations...in a self-centered world you still have a heart that cares for others..that's a good thing.
If so, some options....check with your area churches...mine has a deacon's commitee that volunteers to do those kinds of things, many churches have what they call a "helping hands" ministry to meet these kinds of needs (you could have some flyers in your car for the ready)....or...talk things over with your wife and family...maybe the whole family would like to take a Saturday and come over to help...believe me, you will be blessed beyond measure for loving thy neighbor as thyself....
If so, some options....check with your area churches...mine has a deacon's commitee that volunteers to do those kinds of things, many churches have what they call a "helping hands" ministry to meet these kinds of needs
Thanks for reminding us. There is a great need out there, and not just among divorcees.
There are few feelings which compare to that of selflessly helping someone in need.
_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
Thanks for the insight. I can honestly say there is no ulterior motive; I'm just a sucker for a pretty face, and in this case there were two, ages 4 and 7. This is not the first time this has happened, though. I did a bathroom renovation for a widow last year that had a few 'extras' in it, freebies. I didn't mind too much, as she lives alone and cannot drive, so she is fairly isolated.
I guess I don't mind helping out when I see a need, I just need to find a way to try and not be taken advantage of. (I don't think the lady on Friday intended for me to spend so much time there and address a number of issues, one thing kind of led to another, and when done I realized I had spent almost 4 hours repairing stuff I normally get paid to do, but this time all I could count in return was the warm feeling from a child's smile.) BTW, the lady is an investment broker, and not needy, as far as I can tell.
And I do volunteer work, as a trustee for the church we maintain the facilities, as well as any issues needed by our shut-ins, and I enjoy that very much. But as they say, it don't pay the rent.
Thanks again.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
i try to use what i call the robin hood method of pricing example-
little old lady lives in a mobile home got my name from the local family hardware store needs a doggie door installed because its getting hard for her to get up and let her little dog out already has door charge $25
another call differant part of town people want a doggie door installed because the are tired of getting up off the couch to let dog out charge $250 and they need to go pick out thair own door
the only freebies are done for my parent a nd grand parents aunts and uncles pay
Seek balance. Yes, you have responsibilities to your family and your business.
You also have responsibilities to your community, your nation, your soul, and if you are religious, your God.
IMO, meeting the first and ignoring the second is as irresponsible as ignoring the first.
_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
Do the charity work. It hass a lasying value.
But do it on your time and under your control. This lady was controling you instead. Use the tricks you learned here to assert control so you can give of your time in a controlled way to someone who deserves and needs it. more efficient living that way..
Excellence is its own reward!
So Nick....do you think maybe you have a chance here.....knock something off the bill kind of deal?
Do I think I can recover some of the lost by way of future work? I think so. She was very pleased with what I did (the quality, I believe, not necessarily the cost) and was anxious for my proposal for the bigger jobs she's interested in having done. Maybe I won't recoup all of it anytime soon, but she has already stated that she has more (lower priority, but costlier) work for the future.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Nick,
Contrary to popular belief, nice guys generally end up finishing first. Maybe you didn't put a dime in your pocket on this one but I'm betting that soft heart of yours has reaped incalculable benefits for you over your lifetime. I wouldn't doubt that your wife is one of them.
That said, she expressed a little concern over this one and I would pay close attention to it. I am in no way suggesting that she doesn't trust you but repeatedly observing your overly generous spirit toward single women will eventually wear on her a bit. Even if it is the single woman's kid's that suckered you in.
I've been in your situation more times than I can count but I found a cure. I stopped asking how I felt about the situation and started asking myself how my wife would feel about the situation. The thought of her as my first priority generally helps me get a grip on the rest of my priorities pretty quickly.
Keep the armor polished - God knows we need more people with the compassion to wear it every once in a while. Just make sure the damsel you leave in distress isn't the one you're married to.
And hey, by the way, thanks for making a difference for those that really did need it. You've revealed enough about yourself here that it's pretty clear you have on several occasions. Don't stop, just be a little smarter about it.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Kevin,
Thanks for the generous perspective. I do hear and will comply. Life at home is too good for any funny stuff to derail it, and I'll be the first to admit it. How many other wives will give you a Jet shaper for your 21st anniversary?
I do need to find a way to be more firm, as has been pointed out. I realize that, but I agree with you and Bob Walker, considering no one but yourself isn't the right answer either.
I need to find a happy balance; because I will admit that I don't mind helping those who cannot help themselves; I have the tools and the knowledge, I figure God gave them to me for a reason, but I also have to check the balance in the checkbook on a daily basis, and with twins heading to college in one short year, I can't be spending half a day on freebies, even with some doe-eyed 4 year old smiling behind an ice cream cone.
Life, ain't it grand?
Thanks again, I appreciate your thoughts.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
I hate to admit that I agree with Kevin, being as he's an architect, but............(-:
This world would be pretty dismal if there weren't guys like us who loved kids and were a sucker for a smile.Seatbelts are a great safety device. If you sit on the buckle, it keeps you from falling asleep at the wheel
Kevin, well put._______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
I dont know how you got the problem , but I know how you can cure it .
Buy some rental properties.
Tim Mooney
Good one Tim. And to Nick,
As a business owner you have a responsibility to run your business as something other than a charity.
As a husband and father, you have a responsibilty to your family to not be out doing freebies at their expense.
You have virtually no responsibility to this lady or her kids.
My experience is that customers value freebies by what they paid for them. And they won't hesitate to tell their friends.
I've done more then my share of cheap or free work over the years and I've learned that if they pass it on to friends and acquaintances, they will portray themselves as shrewd and deserving, not that you were kind and generous.
I will do free work for my mother only. Everyone else pays. And like Piffin said, have a reason for not doing it now. My god boy, if you got that kind of time on your hands, I am envious truly envious.Tom
Buy some rental properties - and then rent'em to divorcee`s???
LOL That'll fix his problem!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Been a long time it seems.
What I meant is that a divorcee is a high risk animal to rent to, or at least it has been too me. I cringe now when I hear the word or similar. In my rental experience , it has taught me that two people working and married are the most solid business to be involved in and I dont separate working any different. Its still goods or services that are sold to people and we hope they will pay us. The hope becomes faith with two substantial incomes over one . My records have proven the stability over years of doing business with both to choose the one I want. Of course there can be problems with either , but two people together most of the time are solid , and single divorced people are less a greater amount of the time. Too much of the time they are learning to live with out a crutch they have enjoyed using.
I dont mean to offend anyone , its just a solid statistic. I realize there are many solid singles who are divorced , its just hard to spot the difference in one meeting.
You are blessed working where you do , not to have that as a worry. In the south , its a reality. Normally it takes two working to make it around here figguering the medium income at 20,000 per person employed. 1/4th net income is used figguring housing expense or 35 percent gross. Even at those figgures they cant be loaded unecesarily with luxury items such as boats, four wheelers , etc. A realator told me selling would be easy if the people qualified , because they want to buy. Thus the problem is" over loaded for the income at hand."
Tim Mooney
Yeah, It's a hard position. I used to have a real soft spot for divorcee`s too - then I married one!
There aren't many rentals on the island but I've got a buddy nearby who has apartments. he dreads the young single gal with kids.
She's working and/or barhopping and doesn't give time to the kids, who end up destroying property out of boredom.
Then a guy moves in with her and the rent gets caught up for a couple months.
Then they start not getting along and in the fight, more property gets damaged. Then she gets three months behind in her rent before he can do anything about it, by which time she has figured out that she won't ever get her security deposit back so she stops worrying about cleaning....
It's been very emotionally distressing for him because he can't stand to listen to a sob story without giving in but every time, he gets the shaft, three times in three years running. One apt out of a three plex.
Picking renters has got to be harder than picking a mate. I had a couple mobile homes once. That two years was twenty five months too long in that business for me..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
Picking renters has got to be harder than picking a mate. I had a couple mobile homes once. That two years was twenty five months too long in that business for me.
Truer words have never been spoken, IMO
I had 14 properties at one time, thought I would be financialy well off by the time I was 45. Well that time has come and gone and so have all the rental property.
I admire Tim because he can do it, but never again.
Its just like having milk cows, got to be there all the time, man did I hate it.
Doug
How interesting a position. I know that people were hesitant to rent to me when I was first divorced and didn't understand it. From my view, my (ex)husband punching holes in walls and a solid wood door when he was angry made us as a couple far more undesirable as renters than I did alone. Now I know why that hesitant look would come into a landlord's eyes when he asked me a question that was none of his business and I answered honestly.
Well, just great. After 15 years of home ownership, I'm getting ready to be come a renter again, and I had no idea I was going to be dealing with this. Just great. How depressing.Who said: "The richest person in the world - in fact all the riches in the world - couldn't provide you with anything like the endless, incredible loot available at your local library."
Hey Nick-----try paying your kids tuition with that " warm feeling from a childs smile"
It's interesting that people who wouldn't dream of shoplifting don't hesitate to try to scam a freebie from a working man like you. At,let's say a reasonable $70/hour,plus wear and tear on your vehicle----she just helped herself to the contents of your wallet by about $300!what she did(and people like her) is just short of stealing.You short changed your own kids man.
you are subsidizing her investment properties !
BTW---I used to be suckered by the widow women racket myself.I cheated myself thinking that I hoped someone would "help" my wife out in similar circumstances. then I realized that giving my work away NOW might gaurantee my wife equally dismal circumstances in the future.NOBODY steals from my wife and kids.
You would have been better off to just hand her $300 and walk away.
Both of you girls ,
Any time a business deal goes down , things are evaluated. This may come as funny , maybe not , but this is always on my mind in the "showing meeting ".
Two cute girls = equal lots of boys with four wheel drive trucks parking in the yard and beer bottles. Maybe a call at 1 am in the morning to quiet boys down that dont like to share equally.
Two boys = equals lots more people than is on the lease a lot of the time. Very little cooking in the kitchen , but very little house keeping. [ugh] Boys dont own vacumn cleaners and never used them . You can vision on from there. ..... I must mention that commodes are ,,........ well , you get the picture.
Single men are like a box of choclates. Seriously you never know how that is gonna turn out. One thing is almost always sure , its not going to stay the same . Normally he will pay or move with out any trouble , because its no trouble for him to pack it up. He normally understands men language, and they are easier for me than women. They are not normally long time renters. Their lifes are flexible being single and are not wanting commitments. Forget the term of the lease , he will walk if he wants to and lose all deposits. He wont bat an eye , he will be gone maybe with out word , but the result will be the same . A lanlord plans on a long healthy relationship with out changing horses while climbing the mountain. Its not ever convenient to unsaddle on a steep slope. Its about like planning kids.
Ive mentioned married people and single women .
Im renting now to three professional singles . Two females , one male. They will be in those houses as long as their jobs last. Did I mention the man is moving today? Oh well.
He is a professor at the university and is leaving for a better job. I got 3 years uninterrupted rent and a mess. Pretty good deal.
One female is a plant manager at Walmart distribution. She forgets when the rent is do, but has the money in the bank. Shes a carreer woman and doesnt tend house duties . She has her yard manicured once a week. The out side never looked better and I have even taken the compliments . hehe. Pretty good deal.
The next female is a boss in a plant . I built that house new a year ago and it looks better now than it did then . Its emaculate inside and out. I have to fix any thing she can think of and every thing has to be so so. She called and wanted to know if I could help with the mosquitos off the lake . Im working on it,...... A fine deal .
My point is that single women are a flag , but it does work and Ive culled to get those singles. I wish I had more like them. Dont feel to bad as others have been before you and spoiled the cart of apples. I only wish everyone did what they said and told the truth. If they cant do as they say , I can deal with it on honesty. I will try my hardest to deal with a dead honest person , because I know what the score is at all times. The others above are flags also , so it isnt sexist.
The main goal to a lanlord is to have property rented and rent paid on time. They also want their property kept in good shape naturally because their tired of working on them. Thats how they get them. My advice would be to be up front and think about his or her goals in the meeting. The best arranged deals are two people looking at each others needs. The lanlord must see your needs also , because good tennats are very hard to find of any description. Once a renter has been with me some amount of time to build my trust , I will fight mosquitos , or what ever it is , if I can just keep them !!!!
I hope I have eased the feelings of both of you , because its really about good people dealing with good people. Its normal to see flags . I think we all do from time to time. Its really nice to be proven wrong also. In several of those homes , on a cold or a hot day , Im welcome to a brew and some conversation. The same offer is extended to them. Sometimes Im late for dinner at home because of such visits, checking filters.
Tim Mooney
Tim Mooney
On the other side of that coin, in the word's of my wife's former landlord, she was "the best tenant he ever had" for several years when she found herself single again. Then I came along, we got married and bought a house.
Turns out she was a lot more reliable tenant as a single woman than she ever was married. :~)>Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Tim,
It's not an issue for me anymore - that was 7 years ago and I have since purchased my own home. But it did explain a lot about what went on when I was looking for a home. The guy I eventually rented from turned out to be a jerk anyway - I left the house in better condition than I found it, and he charged me $50 extra for every 6 months I had been there for 'wear and tear' on the carpet. And here I thought that was rent! Especially since I had paid a carpet cleaning (which they could NOT have done) fee at move-in and left with it cleaner than I got it. Oh well, live and learn - some people will try to cheat you no matter what.
Theodora - my advice is to be extra careful when renting from individuals. People who rent as a business are much easier to deal with, better at handling contracts, and understand that it is a business - they don't have as much emotional baggage tied to the property. So when the brand new water heater starts leaking gas and is condemned by the utility (that happened to me once), they won't complain to you that it is a brand new heater and you must have done something to it, they will understand that sometimes you get a dud or a poor install job and go about the business of getting it replaced.
Good luck with your search for a home!
Move down to my next post please. I will respond to both. I just wanted to make sure you both read it.
Tim Mooney
You sound like a good person, not a nuke'em sort :-)
When I ask someone if they can do something, I expect them to name a price, or say they will get back to me (w/a price).
Just a thought, but you might want to use this type of community assistance to get more publicity for your business.
From here on out until I have unlimited funds, I will be seeking folks like you or hiring young folks who need a start. Obviously, should I be able to afford it, I will need an architect/etc. someday!
Thanks, I appreciate the advice, and compliment. And the Nick-name is homage to a prior profession. Two, actually.
Thanks again.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Excuses:
1. Oh, I'd love to, but I have another appointment at ______________.
2. Oh, I'd love to, but I have to meet my wife for lunch.
3. I can put that on the contract and have one of my boys do next week.
The fact is that she probably got a nice settlement, and is used to batting those big brown eyes, doing a hair flip and getting her way. It helps if she has a nice fitting dress and she is watering her lawn and getting it a tad wet. Heck, I'd probably work there for free.
You are a businessman and don't do things for free. She needs to understand that; or gouge her on the main contract and consider this a promotional freebie.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Push the door closed and tell her that would be added to the list when you start the other part of the project. I am to soft hearted, and DW reminds me of all the time. If I decide to do favors I make sure I keep it to myself, I'm sick of hearing about it. Sometimes doing favors will come back to us in good ways. "What goes around comes around" If we weren't around to help our wives they would be in the same shoes. Not that you looked or anything but was the woman as cute as the girls :)
Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing! Holmes Sr. Oliver Wendell
"Think of how your spouse will feel about you doing it."
truer words were never spoken
this thought is, like, the backbone of a good, loving relationship. When you find yourself married to someone who's judgement you trust and who's love you value that question will never steer you wrong.
Norm
It's interesting that----if you are a professional tradesman or contractor---reasonably handy with tools and a halfway decent person----large segments of society like to think you are on an un-ending quest to look after the worlds 'widows and orphans. AND---if you turn down the opportunity to give your time effort and skills away people will be quick to feel you are a putz.
the way I handle the whole mess is to generally only work for full price---and MORE than full price as often as I can arrange it.If I am gonna donate my time,it will be in a non-trade capacity---that is as a coach,a chaperone or a driver etc.I actually prefer to donate actual MONEY to worthy organizations----CYO,food banks,youth sports ,church building funds,etc.I even LIKE giving out a couple bucks to pan-handlers.
Sorry,but divorcees with children----who own several rental properties----- don't qualify.Plus,my wife and children deserve my free time infinitely more than some chisler scamming for a freebie.
I thought this was an interesting thread. You make a good point shazlett, one that I recently learned. Charge everyone enough and then you'll be able to not only donate your time wherever you want, but your money too, because you'll have some. Based on what the original poster said about this particular divorcee, I wouldn't consider her worthy of my charity.
A few months ago, I was a bit frustrated by the construction business in general, and about that time I had a few people requesting that I do some smaller handyman type jobs for them. In my state of despair, I tried something which really was stupid in retrospect. One of the customers wanted me to swap out about 15 feet of fluepipe and flash a new but into the roof. I couldn't really say no, and the job was worth a couple hundred bucks minimum, but I was in no mood to haggle over it, I just wanted to get it done. I never did quote a price and they never asked (stupid) so when I finished, the gentleman asked how much he owed me. I explained about the charity, and asked them to make a donation for what they thought the job was worth, I was there half a day. They thought that was real neat, but were at a loss for what to donate. I said, its for a really good cause, one that they were familiar with, so please be generous. Did I mention that this was right before christmas. The gentleman asked if 30 bucks would be good! And these people were not hurting at all. I was floored.Tom
I didn't say I was spending my life giving it away. I was more less saying glueing up a door to possibly get a few larger jobs and helping out a little never hurts. Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing! Holmes Sr. Oliver Wendell
My ex-wife would love you. She tells everyone what a jerk I am and plays the "poor children" song on the violin constantly. She was earning well over 100,000, driving a BMW, and living high - but she got one poor sucker to do about $40,000 worth of forensic accounting for her (he got laughed out of court because of all the stuff she hadn't given him), convinced a camp to give my son a free week (I paid for the other 2) because she was "destitute", got her lawyers to take 50 cents on the dollar (she had to keep finding new ones as each discovered she was lying - and realized that "no - I wasn't hiding a million in the Bahamas) and stiffed florists, contractors, electrical contractors, a limousine service and numerous others all with the same story - while she was earning well over $100,000 a year (after tax) and buying herself designer clothes, new cars and eating out in the finest restaurants in Toronto an average of 4 times a week.
But my son was just a prop to manipulate the suppliers and the lawyers. He was with me over half the time - but when he was with her, she couldn't even manage to get him to his hockey games or to any of his programs. She dumped him anywhere when she was going out to dinner - or just left him alone at home.
The Northern Pikes had a great song a few years back that perfectly describe the situation: "She's not pretty - she just looks that way".
And your "customer" knows full well that she is stealing your time and your livelihood - she just doesn't care.
She has "several homes" ? How many do you have ??? Are you awake yet ?
These tricks only work on men. Your wife is right !!! She inherently understands how other women work - and we have no clue.
I would say the same about you as I did to the other men my ex was suckering: Guys - maybe we should trust each other a little more: not all ex-husbands are deadbeats. Most often they left the woman who is suckering you in for a pretty good reason. Why don't you trust that he was right ? Look beyond the cute kids and the "poor me - I'm so helpless - won't you protect me ? - you're so good at this stuff " flattery and bull, and you'll find someone who is using her appeal to steal from you. If it were a guy it wouldn't work on you. 10 bucks says there is no long term contract either. But good luck with your addiction. My sympathies to your wife. But then maybe she needs to praise you more so you don't go looking for it somewhere else.
Gavin Pitchford
"Sail fast - live slow"
I'm not sure who I feel more sorry for, the woman you divorced, or you. You have taken a few sentences and drawn conclusions for which you know nothing about. You do not know me, my wife, nor my circumstances, and I take absolute offense that you would place me in a situation contrived in your head, possibly from your own unfortunate past situation. Your sad, pathetic marriage experiance has perverted your thought process, my friend; you now taint any and all single women based upon your own exwife.
I love my wife, and there is not a single female out there that can ever supplant her, not a single one. It is love, and has been for over 21 years. Love that has endured, and shall endure for as long as we both shall live. And if she dies before me, I pray to God that I die soon after, because I will not want to continue living. It is, has been, and forever shall be, love. An emotion which you obviously nothing not a damn thing about. Or if you once had, you've long since forgotten. For that, I pity you. You must be a very lonely individual.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Nick,
I agree that Gavin seemed to mis-applying his situation to yours, and is seeing things and drawing conclusions without justification
May I suggest though, that we respond to him with concern and caring and acceptance for the pain he is feeling - not necessarily assuming that he has an unbiased and accurate view of his failed marriage - but recognizing that he is feeling a great deal of pain and anguish.
Divorce is a really crummy process, and it can cause enormous amounts of pain and loss. Even the finest people can go through periods of bad attitudes and twisted values that they would never adopt but for the process they are going through.
BTW, I think this is a fascinating thread which you've started. I've been thinking that it could be converted into a really interesting FHB article: "Another Way to Read the Words 'Fine Homebuilding.'"
Thanks for starting it, and thanks for reminding us that there are lots of needs out there, and that we need to consider them and consider how those needs can conflict and some of the issues we need to consider in charting our way through this confusing aspect of FHBing.
_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
By the way, this woman's properties are the house she grew up in, and the house next door, which she inherited from her uncle. The woman is a substitute Spanish teacher. I may not know the whole story, but you know considerably less.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Gavin,
I'm truly sorry to hear about your divorce and the ugliness you have experienced.
Divorce sucks.
Lots of types of pain there, and we can all act in ways we never would have considered but for the emotional distortions and anger and fear and other nasty emotions we experience as a result of divorce.
I too was very hurt by my divorce, and have held some pretty nasty views and opinions of my former wife.
For me, going through a biblically based divorce course at a local church, and being re-exposed to religious beliefs and ideas have made (and continue to make) a huge, positive difference in my life.
The course I took was called Divorce Care. See, http://www.divorcecare.com
I hope you won't take this the wrong way - please don't feel attacked by this prayer for you: I feel I have been called to try to help people deal with their divorces (and now run that course at my church):
I will be praying for you, that you may be lifted up and may find some peace and resolution in your situation.
I will also be praying for your ex; that she may see the errors of her ways and the ways in which she has hurt you and your children and may take appropriate actions as a result of that.
At the height of my anger, my pastor challenged me with these Bible verses: (You'll recognize them)
9 In this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name.10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven.11 Give us this day our daily bread.12 And forgive us our tresspasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us.13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power and the glory for ever. Amen.14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Very tough concept there, but I have come to believe and understand that, regardless of the stuff my ex pulled, I have to find forgiveness in my heart for her if I want to be able to receive God's forgiveness. Searching for that forgiveness is for me!
I guarantee you it isn't easy, and doesn't happen all at once, but I have found a measure peace within myself as I have worked at trying to achieve that goal, and I hope you might, too.
_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
Well done !
What I noticed is that these guys arguing with you have benefited you. [hehe]You are writing very well with all your practice . I believe putting your thoughts in print has never been better than this evening. Job well done . I think you may be ready to start getting published if that interests you. I'm serious. You have really learned to stay focused when its hailing at other times also , but I mentioned that before.
I have also improved. When I started on here I was a one finger pecker. Really. I took a typing course and I can now type a letter ! Small wonders!
Tim Mooney
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your concern and your prayers (far from offended I am genuinely touched and appreciative - there were many times I could well have used them). I agree I (deliberately) leapt to many conclusions - and clearly I don't know the whole story or even a fraction of it. My purpose was to provoke you into thinking about these issues - and I gave you several examples of what I had witnessed in my own situation. I admit to being much more cautious about accepting such similar tales having had the experiences I have had. I suspect the other men my ex took for a ride feel a similar suspicion at this point - and try and apply some logic instead of giving all they have to sell away - their time. I don't agree that my situation has left me completely and hopelessly biased - I do think it has taught me to look a little harder at why people do what they do - and to consider multiple sides.
So to Nuke's situation: I had heard enough to know that this divorced person does not value what he does. I'll say it again: if it were a man, he wouldn't do it. If it were a man with 2 gorgeous children and multiple properties, we would all expect him to figure out how to do it himself - or to pay Nuke for it. Why is it different because it's a woman ?? Why is it extra different when it's a pretty woman ? (Study released today: college students rated all the female teachers at the school on a ten point scale. They compared that survey with the teacher assessment reports filed by the students who actually took the courses from the teachers. On a scale of 5, those teachers ranked as most attractive scored a full point - 20% higher - than those the larger population had ranked as less attractive. In short, the better you look, the better you teach.)
So, Nuke: She wouldn't expect HD to do it for her for nothing. Nor would they. Why does she accept your charity ? Encourage it even (by asking more questions - telling you about more problems - knowing your propensity for helping) ? Does she not know about your family ? Which you are supporting ? Or simply not respect that they must be your priority? If she did care, - and I mean really did care - she would not impose on your generosity.
And how would you feel if some recently divorced guy(s) kept finding projects for your wife: I don't know what, if anything, she does professionally, but for example if she were an accountant, should she give her time away free to a string of divorced guys ? Without trying to be sexist, I will assume she does some domestic work. Suppose the recent male divorcee needed help cleaning the house, picking out a tie or doing the laundry. How would you feel if she was over at one divorcee's house after another - not earning the income she was "supposed" to be - but instead helping these men. Would you like that ? OR would you know instantly that the guy should be able to deal with his own laundry - and was taking advantage of your wife. If he had several homes, wouldn't you expect him to pay a professional to do whatever needed doing ?
IMO, most people doing what you do are looking to feel good. They enjoy being the white knight or the champion. And the fact the person for whom you are doing this is female is part of the deal. My point is that you should focus on being that person to your family first - to the wife you clearly love and treasure. Hopefully she will continue to tell you how much she appreciates what you do for your family - (as you do to her) . So explore in your heart - why do you do it ? If it's to be charitable, I will bet a lot of money you can find others in your home town who need your help far more than this recent divorcee. BTW - Why does your wife object to you doing what you do ? And if she objects, why do you not respect her wishes ? (I agree you should help the elderly and the infirm - that's a different category - and I'll jump to another conclusion and bet your wife is far more comfortable with your throwing in a few freebies for the elderly woman living on her own - possibly on a reduced income).
To me, love includes mutual respect and the ability to empathize with your partner. So 2 questions: 1) Reverse the roles and the sexes ... How do you feel ? 2) And would you have acted - or reacted - with and to this person (and the others) exactly the same if your wife were present ? Or not ? I don't know you at all (beyond assessing what you have stated) so my opinion is moot: you know in your heart if that is the case.
Finally, for all you others who equally jumped to conclusions, My personal situation has improved dramatically since my seperation. I have not yet completely forgiven my ex for what she did to me (nor have I gotten over my bitterness at the supposedly fair court system which is so clearly biased against men - at least here in Ontario) - but I have forgiven much and mostly moved on - and actually feel sorry for her in many situations - What I have trouble forgiving is what she continues to do to my son. I can only hope that over time he will heal and appreciate that the problem isn't him - it's her.
I have been with another woman for 4 years who has many of the same positive attributes as my former spouse - the good ones that got me into the first situation in the first place - but this time I'm fortunate to be with someone who is much healthier emotionally, and is a giver - not a manipulator and a user. And also very pretty - but not someone who uses it to get what she wants. I treasure her and I think she me - so I am indeed fortunate. That said, thanks again for the concern and prayers. The world needs way more of both and I'd never turn it down.
One more comment: this has been a fascinating thread. There has been a mix of so many revealing threads. I found the one about "tell your wife you were fishing" particularly so. I'm sure it was meant mostly in jest, but it sure sounded like a sure way to turn your wife into one of Nukem's customers !
Gavin Pitchford
"Sail fast - live slow"
Good post.
Very well said.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
I don't know whether to fuel this fire or not. I wrote the original post because I realize I have responsibilities, and on that particular day I admit that I felt somewhat used. I can be charitable at times, so it doesn't bother me too much. My main intent was to learn how others respond to this situation. I knew posting that there would be those that would misconstrue the situation, and I didn't mind. But you took it to a level beyond which I could passively endure. I apologize for my tirade, however, as Bob pointed out, it wasn't what was needed. I know nothing of the emotional tumult of divorce that you and any others have/had to endure, because I've never experianced it. And for that I thank God and count my many blessings.
As for the client in question, she called me based on the recommendation of a landscape friend who is mowing her yard. He told me she'd inquired about someone to do repairs, I gave him my card, she called, etc. I never felt she wanted to take advantage, it just kind of ended up that way. There were problems and I told her how to fix them, then ended up doing it because I was right there, the girls couldn't get into the garage to their toys, and on and on. I should have drawn the line, but I'm a sap sometimes and that's why I posted the thread. As to whether or not she comes through on my proposal for the work she wants done, only time will tell.
Regarding your question about my wife, no, she does not work in a domestic situation. She is a cardiac care nurse, and has been for 25 years. Are you familiar with the hospital environment? And don't be deluded by the TV shows. There are plenty of 'opportunities,' but I have absolute faith and trust in my wife, just as she has in me. Believe me, the roles have been reversed, as she also does volunteer work. Many times I cook dinner and have cleaned the kitchen with our two teens when she finally drags herself through the door. All I can do at that point is listen and have a water bottle handy.
Again, I'm sorry for what I said, but I ran out of cheeks to turn.
Good luck.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
So Nick, the funny thing is I went on the site initially to get an answer to a concrete question for a pour that I had going today. I happened on your post, and was concerned on your behalf. So last night I came back to check on the information about the concrete and see if anyone had responded. I was excited ! My email notification was full of Breaktime notices! I clicked and followed the thread hoping for some great insights on concrete - and discovered I had 2 (very useful) responses to the concrete question - and 8 on the divorcee problem. This site never fails to amaze me. The divorce post drew 4 times the number of responses that the construction question did. It would appear that we have far more experts on dealing with divorced women than we do concrete specialists on this site ;-)
Perhaps this would be an appropriate time to advise of my sideline in T shirt design: I have 2 available for the divorced person (either sex ) The first is "I was married for xx years and all I have left is this lousy "T" Shirt" (specify size and xx =number of years). Also available in bumperstickers (option for either "lousy car" or "lousy bumper sticker" to replace "T Shirt").
The second is for those who have tried again - usually with exactly the same type of person they left in the first place. "New Husband (substitute Wife / Mate / Partner/ Spouse ) - Same ####". (all trademarked).
Good luck yourself. Gavin Pitchford
"Sail fast - live slow"
ive got a divorced ob-gyn lady customer. always has a list. maybe ill barter for a check up