I’m currently renovating a bathroom and have ripped out the existing drywall on an exterior wall. I’m going to replace the existing insulation (40 years old) and was quoted a price of $600 to do 70 s.f. into a 2″x4″ cavity with Icynene (20 c.f.). Has anyone used any of the d.i.y. kits for spray foam and if so what are your thoughts & who did you use.
Thanks much
Sean
Replies
Yes I have used them, but only for rim joists. Unless they have come down in price substantially, something tells me you will spend as much or more on the DIY kits as on the contractor. I used "Handifoam". It works, but it's difficult to spray evenly, the nozzle is crude, messy, etc. Pretty irritating all in all.
If I was doing something small like that, I would cut rigid to fit and gun foam it to the studs.
I had asked about insulating rim joists a while back and got some interesting responses concerning condensation. Are you able to tell if you are having any such problem?
Check out http://www.tigerfoam.com
It's the Bomb!
tigerfoam is $950 a tank in Ottawa ...
That's only about $300 USD...A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
That's only about $300 USD...
You really oughta get out more, Hack. The US dollar tanked last year and is now worth about 2.7 Timbits¯....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
where do you get it?
sorry, didn't see your rsvp, Ottawa Tool & Fastner had a few tanks, tiger foam, last fall
nice thnx!
I second what Marson said, crude and messy. They're great for filling old window sash cavities or small gaps, but I didn't have such good luck with the larger areas.
gonegolfin68
I'll have to agree those DIY tanks etc. seem to be pretty hit or miss. (I've bought a lot of them) Buy some rigid foam for an area that small. Cut it to fit and use those small spray cans to seal the edges.. You'll need a total of 3 1/2 inches for a 2x4 stud wall. (5 1/2 for a 2x6 wall)
One warning, buy some disposable gloves because if this stuff gets on you only time wears it off. When doing this task wear long sleeve shirt and clothes that you'd planned on throwing away afterwards. Wear a hat and dust mask as well! You don't want foam to get on you!(or plug up your breathing<grin>)
http://www.rhhfoamsystems.com/
I just finished using Tiger Foam in a number of applications. They have different size DIY kits depending on the volume you are using. It is a good product kind of messy though. You need safety glasses a very good respirator ( don't want to glue the inside of your lungs) and something like a Tyvec suit. That said it yields about 6.2 R value per inch and seals very well. For a lot less mess and a whole lot less money get Blue or Pink Styrofoam. Rip it down to fit in-between the studs. A 2" layer and a 1-1/2" layer will fill out each stud bay. Buy some small cans of spray foam. Work on one stud bay at a time. Spray a little foam around the perimeter and press the 2" material in. Then spray some more foam on the perimeter again and press the 1-1/2" material in. Move on to the next bays. The next day fill any voids with the spray foam. Styrofoam has a R value of 5 per inch. 6.2X 3-1/2" = 21.7 R value. 5X 3-1/2" = 17.5 R value. For the mess and extra expense that extra R value of 4 might not be worth it.
After reading the "cheaper" ways to do this insulating, I would tell the spray foam guy to get to it.
I compared DIY to a contractor, and the contractor is about the same price.
One thing that you may already know about the contractor is he probably has a basic setup/cleanup fee. This makes smaller jobs less cost effective, but likewise the price per foot decreases as the size of the job increases.
That is why the contractor is so expensive for the small job.
I know it's hard to figure but what you gotta look at is cost/energy savings = months (years) to payback for the added expense = value of improvement. How long you expect to stay in the house fits into the equation somewhere too.
Are there any other areas of the house that could be insulated (crawlspace, attic, garage attic floor) to make the basic set up fee mentioned by Matt more palatable? I wholeheartedly understand the high cost for such a small job. I had my garage apt. done with icynene (about 1440 sq ft of 2x4 bays) and it was an hour or two before they were ready to spray and another hour or two after finishing up before they were ready to leave. Sometimes they reduce the set up time by leaving their rig running all day and go straight to the next job so they don't have to break everything down again.
Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
Thanks much for all of the suggestions but after checking out tigerfoam & versifoam I just can't justify the cost as much as I'd like to do it. Going to go with the rigid foam board & Great Stuff as suggested by Frenchy & Jay20.
Thanks again
If you go this route, it's probably worth getting the reusable gun with the separate screw on cans. There is so much more waste with the disposables. The reusable gun setup can pay for itself in just a few cans not wasted. And this isn't even counting the added ease of use. The rigid tip with the valve right where it comes out allows much more precise placement, and less mess to clean up. It can even sit for days between uses without ruining the whole can. I paid between $20 and $30 at HD a couple years ago for mine, I wish I had bought it a long time ago.
I picked up one of those and will use it on my bath demo / rebuild. Only problem I see is how can you clean it out when you're done and won't be using it again for a long time ? Instructions say only acetone will clean off uncured foam. Thought of any way to force some acetone through the gun to keep it usable ?
You are supposed to buy the can of cleaner also. You just screw the cleaner on the gun and pull the trigger until it is flushed clean. There should also be a spray nozzle with the cleaner that allows you to spray the cleaner on the external parts of the gun. One can of cleaner will last for dozens of cleanings.
Haven't seen a cleaner with it = or available for it. I'll inquire. Thanks....
I don't know if it matters which brand, but my cheap setup is Great Stuff branded. My local HD carries orange regular expansion fire retardant foam, low expansion foam for windows and the cleaner, along with the gun. I think that some HD stores carry the Hilti branded stuff instead.
That is certaainly the cheapest for a small space.
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So you want to use rigid foam and then foam it in with great stuff? Not sure if it is too late but Here is something to think about.... Using Great stuff in the spray can with the plastic tube that is available at home centers can be somewhat painful - if not very messy.
This is what my insulators use. You definitely have to get the cleaner to go with it. The foam itself comes in 3 "flavors". 1) windows and doors, 2) regular (high expansion) and 3) pink fire stop. I have not used these other than for me to say to the insulator "hey - let me use your gun for a minute to get a few little spots", but from that little exposure I can tell you the gun is much easier. Namely being able to control the amount that is coming out of the nozzle much better and just the fact that a fine pointed nozzle is easier to work with than a floppy plastic tube.
I have a Q for anyone who may have used these on a regular basis though. With regular great stuff it seems hard if not impossible to use part of a can, and then say a few days, a week or a month later get it out again and have it work. I just try to do all my foaming at one time and then throw away what ever is left over. So the Q: with these guns and canisters of GS, is that still a problem? Can you remove a partially used canister from the gun and use it again later?
Great Stuff makes a foam gun very similar to what you posted. It's worth the 50 buck investment IMO unless you truly are just using a few cans. That is what I was referring too. I should have been more clear.You don't remove the can from the gun unless it is empty and you are reloading. Otherwise the foam will harden in the gun. The can will not last forever on the gun--the instructions say how long, but I don't remember. Cleaner is not usually necessary.The gun can be dissassembled and cleaned with a strong solvent like lacquer thinner or even a propane torch.
Thanks Marson.
I've got the Great Stuff 14" gun (around $40). I've used the Great Stuff orange foam, the Great Stuff yellow window & door (stays much softer when cured - both from Home Depot) and the Dow window & door normally stocked by Western Tool.
I've let partially used cans sit on the gun for several months in between uses. If I leave it that long, I sometimes have a bit of an issue with it sticking a bit -- have to open the flow knob fairly wide, pull hard on the trigger to get it started, then may have to crank the flow control knob down to shut it off. After a few rounds of that, it has always smoothed out and worked fine.
Normally, if it's only been a few days or weeks, I just rub off the dried-on foam that's covering the tip and the ball valve on the end against a handy board, then start foaming.
Haven't pulled off a partially used can, though, so I don't know how that would work. Might have a little trouble getting all the cured foam out of the valve in the can.
Generally, I've either just immediately put on a new can and kept foaming, or rinsed it out with a can of the solvent (basically just lacquer thinner in a spray can which fits the gun) and then put it away. Very important to not let the stuff sit for more than a minute or two once you've removed the old can before you either purge with the new can or rinse with solvent.
If you have a lot to do at one time, then it might be cheaper to buy the foam in the single-use cans, as they are often cheaper -- Can often find the single-use cans for $5 or so for 16 oz. vs $10-12 for 20-24 oz gun cans. The gun, however, is much easier to control, less fatigue on the fingers, and clearly better for intermittent use. Nice to be able to grab the gun, squirt in a glob of foam, then set it down & forget it.
One thing I've noticed, though about the resulting foam: The regular single-use cans of Great Stuff I used before getting the gun seemed to give a noticeably finer-bubbled, more uniform foam than the gun foams (even the Great Stuff) I've used. Not sure why.
Don
Thanks for sharing your expierence. Exactly what I needed.
Has anyone discovered the best tool for cutting thicker (1 in. plus) extruded foam. An electric saw would produce a lot of harmful dust.
I've run into the same dilemna as "gonegolfin" post 107456.1 -DIY spray foam. Rear wall flange of bathtub was 3 inches outside the wall and just simply tiled over, by whoever originally installed it (70 year old house). Tiles, grout, etc. predictably failed. Didn't discover it till I was in the basement while a teenage daughter showered and it was raining in the basement ! Have stripped out everything to the studs - wet insulation, black mold - horrible !
I'm now trying to decide whether to hire a foam contractor, or follow some of the suggestions to gongolfin, re., use great stuff to glue in XPS foam.
I have 2 products gathering dust in the basement; 1 in. dow blue xps and 2 inch Homasote R plus with foil on both faces. Anyone have an educated opinion on which to use (or not) ? Thanks
Cheap way, hot knife make one or buy one, simply a nichrome wire with a voltage (usually low v.) to make the wire red hot and slices through the foam like a hot knife through butter. Try aircraft spruce supply, the home builders us a lot of foam these days.
The other much more expensive tool/tools is a Festool saw/vacuum/track setup. Expect to lay out close to a $1k, but it has a lot of other uses as well <G>.
This is funny - in my mind.The only harmful elements released from foam is when it is heated, yet the professional cutting tool of choice for small and irregular cuts is a hot knife as you suggest. Those would not even be allowed on the market if any appreciable amt of danger were created by their use.
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on what do you base your assumption that the 'dust' from using a saw is harmfull?I use a tablesaw more than anything else and get some bead dust in the pile that sweeps up like any other sawdust. it is inert and no more harmful than the plastic peanuts used for packing in your UPS deliveries.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One of my contractor/installers told me that it costs him $400 just to get set up on a site and commit a nozzle to the job, then clean up.
So a DIY kit is far cheaper for such a small area.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!