I have asked this before, but cannot find the answers with search. So here goes again.
A new house will be built on a frost-protected shallow foundation, basically a thickened-edge floating slab, on a rural plot in a cold climate.
Water supply will be from nearby well, yet to be drilled. Sewage is to adjacent septic tank and field.
What is done in a system, design-wise, to ensure a quick and prudent pre-freeze closing up of the house, and what is done to make it possible to open up for a couple weeks at a time of winter visits?
Heaven help me if I ask this over at any of the plumbing forums. Those boys and girls can be more rude than Kanye West.
Replies
what is done to make it possible to open up for a couple weeks at a time of winter visits?
Use PEX, won't pop when it freezes if you still have water in the system
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Something that turns the heat on a day or 2 before you get there.
Takes forever to get a house up to temp, makes for a miserable first night at least.
Joe H
Edited 9/15/2009 11:26 am by JoeH
Note that if it's a frost-protected shallow foundation the heat in the structure should never be turned all the way off.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
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Something like this is already under the timberframed barn/loft/shop building, built a few years ago, right adjacent where the house will go, just about the same size footprint.
Furthermore, the drainage could not be better. The whole hilltop is gravelly glacial till, with randomly deposited boulders up to the size of a refrigerator.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Edited 9/15/2009 4:56 pm ET by Gene_Davis
Since you are concerned about the pipes freezing that are above grade within the building, the continuous foam under the crawlspace keeps some of that much needed heat from making it to the plumbing where the drains are likely to be.
Although it requires more insulation I'd vote for super insulating around the mechanical room with the floor uninsulated to benefit from the ground heat.
Also, if the plumbing is pex and has a number of home runs they all need to be able to drain if the system is drained down each time.
I saw one whole house drain that used a type of french drain below the main drain valve recessed into the ground a couple feet. The supply valve was placed in the same location so it wouldn't freeze. One valve turned off the other on and the whole works drained except for p-traps. The nice thing about the french drain was the lack of p-trap so you didn't have to wait around for it to fully drain out.
Make the shell superinsulated, and install a freeze alarm to call the owner when power/heat go out. Very low heat loss makes it cheap to keep low level of heat on, and when power/heat do go out, it's going to take a long time to do any freeze damage to the foundation, so that the owner has plenty of time to respond.
If you don't blow the water lines, make sure there are no low points that can't easily be drained. Don't run any supply lines in outside walls.
Use RV antifreeze in the traps, toilet bowls, drain the tanks (but that's got nothing to do with the design).
If there's a water softener, don't forget to drain that.Put RV antifreeze in the washing machine and dishwasher.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
...........Heaven help me if I ask this over at any of the plumbing forums. Those boys and girls can be more rude than Kanye West........
And who do you think lurks around here? ;)
Talkin' 'bout plumbin'
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
No neighbors? They have the same problem, I'd suppose. Maybe talk to them about what they do.
If you really want to drain the supply lines then they need to be run like drains.... always a little downward slope. Install a pair of hose bibbs (hot/cold) in the crawl space (hmmmm... you don't have one....) so that you can shut off the water, open all the fixtures, open the hose bibbs, and drain out the water. Drain the toilet tanks and vacuum out their traps, blow out the sink traps, drain the water heater, etc. The small length of pipe in the crawl that can't be drained needs to be well insulated or protected by heat tape.
I have a cabin in the mountains at Big Bear lake above San Diego. every house up there has a 'stop and drain valve' in the main water line to the house below the freeze line. there is a rod that sticks up and turned with a T handle. when I leave the cabin I just shut the valve, which opens a drain on the house side, open all the faucets to airate, flush all the toilets, then add one glass of RV anti freeze to all the drains, one in toilet bowl and tank, and leave, no heat. when I return I open the stop valve and away I go. be sure to open the valve diverter to the shower head if you have the old 3 handle unit or the water is traped in the riser and freezes and breaks the line, guess how I know that one?
Orbs
I have a cabin at Lake Tahoe that my dad built in 1940.
Originally pumped water from the lake. Had a bypass loop around the check valve with a valve that enabled the system to drain back to the lake when we closed up.
We're on a community water system now, so we use a stop-&-drain valve. When we shut the valve and open all the faucets, water from the house drains to a french drain below the frost line. Water lines must be plumbed so that the stop&drain valve is the lowest point in the system and all lines route either horizontal or up from there, so there will be no low points that won't drain.
We leave the water heater full with just the pilot light on to prevent freezing. This keeps from overwhelming the french drain with 40 gallons every time we drain. If you drain back to the well, you can drain the WH too.
Toilets tanks get emptied and sponged out, bowls bailed out to just a couple of inches and pour in cheap antifreeze. 1 1/4" traps get 1/2 cup antifreeze, bigger ones get 3/4 cup.
One bathroom room was an addition and pipes had to be routed from above the S&D, so I added a second angle stop below the cold and hot angle stops and ran a plastic flex supply line from each of them out through the wall to drain those lines.
It takes just 10 minutes to turn on water, 30 minutes to drain and put in antifreeze when closing.
Gene
Been opening and closing cottages for the winter far longer than I care to admit, some are easy, some are a pain, here's some points ..
all plumbing should be sloped to a drain valve
that means no downward. then horiz, then vert again loops
all drain valves should be easy to access and be allow for a pan to be places under said valve or a drain hose to be hooked up
drain caps should be attached to the valve by a chain so they are not lost
hose clamps and flexable abs pipe are not flexible in cold weather, use unions
main drain and shut off valve should have a "vent" to release suction and allow water to drain
none of this should be in a crawl space 10" high!!!
if long runs of pipe, you may want to consider a "port" to hook up compressed air to blow them out
if sinks, showers, tubs, floor drains have tight fitting stoppers the ptraps can be drained as well (no antifreeze)
don't forget washing machines, dish washers, kettles, coffee makers, hwt tanks, water filters, softeners
Basically this place needs to be plumbed with all this in mind, and inspected like crazy before the walls are closed.
others will add their comments ..