Hi All, I have a question about how to handle a electrician that was drinking on the job. The guy had the nerve to drink half of a bottle of tequlia (the home owners) while rewiring a basement remodel that I am doing. I have since had a new electrician go over all that was done in that phase. He has now asked the home owner for payment of all that was done that day (6 cans several outlets switches ect.) I think the guy should get credit for material only as I had to pay to have someone go over all his work for that day. Thanks Mike
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Two things:
1) Pay him nothing whatsoever.
2) Report him to your state's electrical contractor licensing authority. His license will be gone, and he won't be able to do this again.
This guy put you in a position of serious liability, held up your job, cost you extra money, and damaged your reputation with your client. He also stole from them. And believe me, they'll never forget the story of the drunk electrician. And it's sort of funny (if you're not the GC), so they'll repeat it whenever the subject of the job, or your name, comes up. Damages to your business are potentially extensive.
If a sub ever did that to me, there'd be nowhere for him to hide.
He did the work, pay him.
Back charge all cost of repairs.
The cost of the actual inspection by the other electrician, I am of two minds about.
If no problems were found, don't charge him. He met his contractual obligations, but you panicked. Charge it off continueing education in recognising drunks.
If a few minor issues came up, charge him half.
Major problems, charge 100%.
The Booze; Charge him your hourly rate for picking up a replacement bottle and a very expensive apology bottle. Add OH/P markup to the price of the liquor. Put the replacement in a brown paper bag with a crayoned note on the bag "from" the drunk. Wrap the "Apology" bottle in gift wrap with an elegant apology from you.
When you hand your clients the booze; The jokes on you. Laugh like you mean it. Let them know what you have done to insure their job with out charge.
With, or in lieu of, his payment, if any, attach an itemized invoice of all back charges.
My idea is to keep emotions (punishment/revenge) out of the solution, but not allow the drunk to cost you anything.
SamT
This is why I love this place!!!
Two VERY different and justified solutions to a serious problem.
One is all business: CYA, get serious, nip it in the bud.
One is more Human?people oriented: Do what it takes to make it good to the HO and gat them laughing, but at the same time dealing with thier concerns and your without really "Busting" the Drunk.(something that may be better in the long run)
Personally I like option 2.
Unless this not his first offense.
Then hit him hard...
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
<!----><!---->
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
tell him to get back on the roof where he belongs!
or hand him a paint brush ...
Jeff
snork
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
<!----><!---->
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
In a different light of 'drinking electrician' and consequenses, reminded by the title of the thread..
A few years ago was troubleshooting a hybrid power circuit for the space station (before launch) - (FWIW, a 'hybrid' is a circuit with all the chips bonded to a piece of ceramic (rather than the parts in a plastic case or metal can) and connected together with 1 mil gold wires). Probes used for trouble shooting are micrometer controlled and sight is thru a binocular microscope.
Anyway, yours truly had a beer (1) for lunch, and broke 3 of the gold bond wires within 1/2 hour of 'work'. Totally amazed at the loss of precise motor control with just one glass, good education. Quit troubleshooting for the day and went and did paperwork.
Ayup.
I lost 4 fingers to "1 beer with lunch won't hurt."
Well, I didn't really 'lose' them, at least not permanently, but, they're all 1/8" shorter than they were.
SamT
Sam,I am sorry to hear about your accident.Here is some relevant info:An average man consuming 1 average American beer (European beer has a higher alcohol content and larger serving size) results in a BAC of approx. 0.02. Studies conducted by the Air Force with pilots in flight simulators only began to register measurable losses in pilot skill and judgement at BAC's of 0.025 (pilots and carpenters have similar demands on spatial reasoning). This does show that impairment of ablity begins well before the legal limits of BAC 0.08 or 1.0. Most BAC charts show "elevated mood but no loss of motor skills" up to BAC 0.03. That is overstated, especially given the demands of construction trades.The majority of workplace accidents occur during the afternoon lull in consciousness, when all of our brains loose some alertness. If you are already tired and it is siesta time and you had a beer at lunch--the impairment may begin at lower BAC's. I try to do my demanding work when I am fresh in the morning. It is usually the afternoon when I cut something an inch to short (hold the tape in the left hand feed out to the right--with numbers upside-down, so instead of marking and cutting 30-1/2" I end up with 29-1/2". Tape measures are one of the only tools easier to use for left-handed people--they tend to hold tapes in their right hand and feed to the left so the numbers are upright). If I start making mistakes I switch to safer tasks or go home (hopefully before I injure myself). Having a beer at lunch may still be best if you are through with power tools, ladders and roofs for the day--or skip it altogether.My News Years Resolution was to drink more beer and less coffee (trying to mellow out a bit). Hope that explains my defense of alcohol. I do think the Europeans have a more balanced view of it. More accepted as a part of any good meal, including lunch, but less tolerant on DUI (lower BAC limits and stiffer penalties).
...Buy thinner blades
LOL
Yeah, I'm lookin' fer the ones the butcher uses to slice bologna.
SamT
Personally I like option 2.
Unless this not his first offense
I'm kind of on option 1.5--I want to know how valid his license is.
Only real problem with getting his license yanked is that the dude will steal from a customer, so he's just as likely to do unlicensed work. Or, so it seems to me, maybe.
But, then again, I have a zero tolerance policy with subs and the client's "stuff," too. I catch a sub with anything belonging to the owner, not only did he just lose his job, but I'm calling the PD & client--which is some CYA, I'll admit. If I wait until the client gets back and only then say, yeah I caught this guy thieving, here's a replacement--I have to wonder the same things I'd wonder if the roles are reversed.
But then, I've also had to cope with some less-than good job site problems, too (like an hvac plumber who was so sweating the meth he couldn't use a torch, so he didn't solder two floors of HW pipe; that was a fun pressure test).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'm with Steelbuddha. No money, no nothing. There is NO excuse for drinking on the job, or STEALING from your customer. What happens a month from now when a pair of earrings are misplaced, what do you think the customer will think of first?
Kick this low life off your jobs forever, its like drunk driving, just because no one got killed this time it's not a big deal?
Bear
To All, Thanks for all your input to resolve this rotten problem. I have gotten things smoothed over with the homeowners (they are really great people). Yes I am the GC on this job and I guess I didnt really think of the damage to my reputation as a Gc in a small town. I am thinking he really shouldnt get any thing as all was rechecked at MY expense as he only worked half a day and got a DWI at lunch. I like like two bottles of booze idea I have some of the kids crayons handy.. Thanks Mike
Another vote for no pay and a complaint to the license board.
I find the other guys' pleas for leniency interesting. I'm running a business, not a daisy farm.As a GC, you're the subs' client. Let the word get out that you're easy to push around, and you'll be treated like the new punk on the cellblock. Kind of hard to be effective in business that way.Not asking anybody to agree; that's just how i operate.
Mike,
Was there anybody else on the jobsite that day with the electrician?
(If so, did THEY call you to advise of what was going on? - i.e. stealing from HO and drinking on the job? IF not, why not? Who/where was your onsite job supv or leader?)
There's some details lacking in your posts so far so that would maybe address what I'm thinking about...
If there WERE others on the jobsite that morning, did you round them up immediately and reiterate your expectations re "unacceptable behavior and the consequences thereof"? If not, WHY NOT?
THAT would be the type of management information I, as a H.O. or "the client" would want to hear from the GC when you encountered the situation and set about rectifying it then "smoothing it over" with me.
As to the 2 bottles of booze idea...I'm conflicted.
One: you should definitely replace the bottle stolen, same brand/size. That's just "making it right" or "making it whole again" in more legal type parlance.
TWO: a second bottle would just add to the duration...the times the H.O.'s would be sitting there reminded of and thinking about, and perhaps talking about, the THIEF on their jobsite who worked for you. Do you really need that?
Instead, I'd recommend a serious and professionally-toned apology from you should be written, and your corrective actions restated in writing therein, with summary stating how you will ensure nothing like this ever happens again. That written apology on your company letterhead, shows you take it seriously, they can read it then either file it or trash it. BUT if they ever pull it out again, the written apology then just reaffirms your professionalism...to them...and anybody they might show it to.
As to paying the electrician:
x hrs by rate per hour = y
z costs of materials = z
His bill = y+z
All itemized...
Then from y+z you list and deduct:
"a" = cost of reinspection by follow on electrician
"b" = cost of replacement bottle of tequila
so he gets paid: y+z - (a+b). If that's a positive number, so be it. He gets paid "something".
If it's a negative number, meaning he owes YOU; then you can choose to then write on it (if you're feeling kind) that "Balance of due contractor (You) is waived." and let him chew on that.
In that scenario, he gets nothing. But the basis is at least spelled out specifically and in biz like fashion reflecting actual costs involved and work done...keeping emotions out of it.
Of all the things that I have lost, I miss my mind the most!
Hum. In total agreement with the serious and professionally toned apology and statement of corrective action taken. Am ambivalent about the "written on company letterhead" part. Except for normal and customary matters, estimates, bids, etc., I'm of the notion that the less put in writing, the better, particularly something that might attach liability. Zbalk
Materials don't get drunk. They were provided and benefited the client. Pay for the materials only. Tell the electrician to take a hike and be happy that you don't sue him.
You 've encountered a legal situation. Think the way a judge would think. Would your decision be to sentence the defendant to apologizing and providing a replacement bottle? Considering the liability you were subjected to, I don't think so.
Think the way the client would think. What happens when something else happens. The first thing the client will think off is the drunk electrican and will add it to the mix and compound their emotional state.
An apology (which should be done anyway) and making lite of the problem is the contractor trying to save his butt.
Kicking the electricians butt with no pay and threats of license removal and stuff is a clients reaction (which is what a client would probably do if they were the ones that hired him) puts you on the clients side of the fence instead of the trying to save your own butt side.
The weird thing is clients are weird. Some would freak out, some would laugh. You can never be sure of how they'll react.
Curious how you know what he did ...
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
You already got some good responces to a bad situation...so I'll go off on a tangent here.
When I was living in Germany, the construction workers routinely enjoyed a beer at lunch or on breaks (this is way different since it was their beer and in another culture). I should add, I was so impressed with their work, that I can confidently say the reasonable consumption of alcohol had no detrimental effect on the craftsmanship.
Here, I was offered a Margarita while looking at a kitchen, after hours, just this past Friday. I politely declined. I was thinking too bad I had to turn down their offer. Our culture is such that you can't win in a situation like that.
IMO, a single drink at lunch or on a Friday afternoon should be fine. I feel entitled theoretically, but choose to remain "beyond reproach" in our odd culture.
I never drink and drive, but recent research has shown that every hour after midnight impacts a tired driver as much as a drink (3:00 AM = 3 drink DUI). And distacted driving (fiddlin' w/ radio, talking on cell phone) can be as bad or worse than DUI. The same can be true at a job site. Watch the tired and distracted workers. They are a bigger hazard than a beer Friday afternoon.
Can you cite the research source for that hour after midnight impacts as much as a drink?
Here is one citation comparing being tired with DUI:http://www.safety.com/articles/driving-while-tired.htmlEdit to add: The 3-Mile Island Disaster is linked to sleep deprivation (due to a full crew shift change--now they phase shift changes). When we get building material orders messed up at a job it is more often stamped "3rd Shift". There are good stats showing an increase in traffic accidents when the nation looses just one hour of sleep at the Daylight Savings Time change.
Edited 5/8/2005 10:32 pm ET by basswood
Thanks.
I was interested in the correlation between each hour after midnight being equivalent to an alcoholic drink.
Our City Council is presenting an ordinance that will allow certain downtown establishments to serve alcoholic beverages until 4am rather than the current 2am city wide. They are hoping this will entice people to stay downtown after a function (or go downtown). This is an attempt to "revitalize" a downtown that has traditionally rolled up the sidewalks, except for some entertainment venues, after normal working hours.
Sorry, I didn't find a reference to that exact "each hour after midnight" concept.I did read a study that made that correlation though...so it's out there somewhere.
I agree he should be compensated for his material, and maybe give him the other half of the bottle he started to help him get over being docked his labor. But give him nothing else
The man lacks control. A man who cannot control himself cannot be trusted to control anything. Large or small. Truck, job, power tool.
He was left alone and proved that he is both a drunk and a thief. Firing is mandatory. Theft, especially of a customers property, cannot be tolerated. As to whether the licensing authority and/or the law are informed is a matter of how egregious you see the offense.
If he is otherwise a good worker who has slipped in this one case and can be expected to learn from the consequences of his actions and subsequent firing then further sanction would seem unnecessary.
If he acted with forethought, has a history of such inability to control himself, fails to see the harm to you, your reputation, and the good will of the customer then there would be reason to pursue it farther.
Mike,
My wife and I are RN's who have worked chemical dependency units in the past, so I'll state the obvious: this nut is an alcoholic and is most likely to the point where he needs alcohol in order to function. I would venture that if he stops drinking for at least 24 hours then he would exhibit signs and symptoms of ETOH withdrawal. The difference between folks like him and the rest of us who drink is that we can stop and do not need alcohol just to make it through the day. So, he needs to dry up and maybe hitting bottom by losing jobs from GC's/losing his license is necessary. Don't cross your fingers, but he might thank you later.
Rich