Replies

1. 
   Phill_Giles | Jan 18, 2001 04:58am | #1

   *
   This is one you can't win here: the drug users will tell you to ignore it (and so what if one of these abusers accidentily kills you one day); while the non-users will mostly keep quiet to avoid the abuse and flames that invarably follow.

   Too bad about your boss, now that he knows that substance abuse and controlled substances are being used on his jobsite, his liability insurance is probably worthless.

1. 
   Gary_Reid | Jan 18, 2001 05:00am | #2

   *You're being a prude.

1. 
   scc_ | Jan 18, 2001 05:49am | #3

   *your comment of "Actually I feel like a bit of a fool now" is very common. But you are justified. It is estimated that over 70% of accidents (all types) are related somehow to alcohol. Don't enable the drunk, or risk your own skin, by second-guessing yourself.

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Jan 18, 2001 06:24am | #4

   *mike byour boss has to solve the problem.....the alky needs help.. and your boss is an enabler....... i used to look the other way.. 'cause i needed the help.. finally wised up...you can work with alky's if you want.. but the best policy is your policy... leave it at home, if you can't .. don't come to work..now i don't even have a beer at lunch, cause it sends the wrong message...the right message is ..NO BOOZE... NO DRUGS.. from the time you wake up, until you punch out and leave the job site...

1. 
   GACC_DAllas | Jan 18, 2001 06:37am | #5

   *Michael,I really feel sorry for you. What a frustrating situation. If your boss turns a blind eye to this sort of thing, then he has no chance of ever being a major anything......except maybe a major defendent in a lawsuit.Gary Reid sez you're a prude. Don't believe it. He probably has a few beers at lunch or maybe a toke or two at break. Maybe not. But anyone who would fault you for being concerned about something as serious as drug use on the job doesn't get my respect.Maybe it's time to move on. Tell your boss that you're tired of it and that you're thinking about looking around to see what else is out there if this is the way it's gonna be. That's when you'll see how serious he is about you. Maybe he's getting high on the job too and doesn't see anything wrong with it. Who knows? If your boss does decide to come down hard on the drug users on your crew, they will know where it came from and you risk a good working situation which sounds like it's gone south on you with the crew anyway.Bad deal all around.Good luck,Ed. Williams

2. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Jan 18, 2001 06:42am | #6

   *You're not being a prude. Time for work, and a time for fun. I feel the same way....and trust me....I'd never be confused for a prude! Me, I'd quit. Give the boss notice as to why, and line something else up. As to interviewers asking why you are leaving....the company not professional enough should suffice. My main concern would be the "accident" when someone goes too far...and the boss still doesn't notice in time. I'm not talking when they take a fall....who the hell really cares about them....but when they fall on you...it starts to matter. I'd be surprised if they are pulling their weight. I worked with a guy that was a walking hangover. When the shit work came, the boss cut him slack because he was hungover....so I had to pick up the slack. Did it once big time, and made it clear it wasn't gonna happen again. The very next week he was hurting, the boss asked me to finish my work, then help him.....I went over and said I'll be sitting here in the shade till the free ride home. I don't work here no mo. Jeff

3. 
   Skip_Keith | Jan 18, 2001 07:36am | #7

   *Miclael, Before you do anything else go to the source and breech the subject with him. This is not an easy problem but people are getting more sophisticated about this. Then talk it out with your boss and remind him of his responsibility to provide a safe jobsite. If you still don't get what you feel is a satisfactory answer, roll em up and head down the road. Skip

4. 
   joe_d | Jan 18, 2001 10:24am | #8

   *Can you imagine the look of the unemployment clerk when you tell them why you had to leave your job?b DOCUMENT THE SITUATIONTake notes of conversations you've had. Take notes with time of day, type of incidents, complaints you've made, etc.Hey some of us were like that back in the 70's and 80's, smoking dope, drinking on the job; its not acceptable anymore, even if it kinda was back then.joe d

5. 
   David_Thomas | Jan 18, 2001 10:48am | #9

   *Michael: As in the case that Jeff experienced, if performance is required, then either recreational drugs aren't used to excess or it is kept at home. You just can't be productive, efficient, mistake-free and safe when you are impaired. And since performance isn't the criteria, what is? Being a nice guy, a warm body, a relative, or a drinking buddy?It sounds like you're a great worker if you enjoy the work, learning new things, and are getting praised. Imagine how much more you'd enjoy work if the majority of the crew were like-minded. And how much more viable the company would be. There are such companies and they'd be happy to have you. Ask the suppliers, inspectors, etc who they'd hire or who'd they'd like to work with. -David

6. 
   Ryan_C | Jan 18, 2001 02:33pm | #10

   *Too bad it's in your work place. It shouldn't be there. But you can't do a damn thing about it so don't sweat it.Either accept it or move on. Not your company, you can't make it better.I would probably find something else, tell your new interviewer that you like the work, like your company, and can see good things happening there except that drug and alcohol use on the job is tolerated and you don't want to work in a place like that. That would raise you three notches in my eyes.And when you go, tell the owner why you had to go.If you need out now, you might be able to quit and still collect unemployment as someone mentioned before. With documentation of the conversations you've had and the lack of any action, this might fit into the area of "constructive discharge" where you were sort of forced to resign.

7. 
   JamesWhitcomb | Jan 18, 2001 03:49pm | #11

   *There are plenty of crews out there that aren't drinking and druggin. I'd quit. There is nothing more embarassing than having an owner or architect or any other with power over your livelyhood discovering that either you or your crew are gettin buzzed on the job. You may find out that the town you work in becomes very small. The guys I know that are gettin high on the job have to measure things three times and still forget when they get the saw in hand.I am working as a sub on a major rennovation, I was brought in by the owner. I have been watching the current crew completely screw up this job. The lead finish guy is always high. The owner thinks he has H.A.D.D. Little does she know he is simply blanked by bud. The mason and painters talk about how much they drank the night before and the great greenbud they have--never mind using drugs and booze off the job, they are still fucked up from the night before. Their production is slow, the work is not sharp, and I am amazed that these guys are working on a project in an area that is considered one of the wealthier in the U.S. They give new meaning to the term "High End" I know where these guys will be when the economy goes south.

8. 
   Phill_Giles | Jan 18, 2001 06:36pm | #12

   *There are no absolutes; however, I recall that the only way (in the area where I live) to get a constructive dismal to stick on a resignment is to formally lodge a safety complaint and/or go on record as stating that you are concerned for your future employment by being tarred by the same brush if anything happens. I'm not sure if this is true, but, a US aquaintance once told me that contruction workers are required to report to OSHA (?) any safety concern that goes unresolved for a "reasonable" length of time - is this true ?

9. 
   Len_Olson | Jan 18, 2001 08:07pm | #13

   *Michael and all:Guess I'll have to shed light on my 1/2 profession here. I shut down my full law practice 2 years ago and have been slowly rebuliding my furniture business since that time which put me through undergraduate and post grad school. Nowadays, I consult for a few companies and provide consultation only services to employees. My practice area was 100% employment law.I am not going to comment on anyone's potential liability nor OSHA requirements, (for my own liability purposes), But I will provide some analysis of the dynamics of your workplace based on experience and common sense. You are in a far too common situation.First, your boss is a fool. I'm surprised that the re-work, delays, and wasted material have allowed him to stay in business.The previous comments are right on point: the boss is an enabler, the (straight) co-workers are not going to join with you for fear of alienation and being ostercized, you will not change this situation, your work quality and reputation is at risk, your personal safety and that of others is at risk.In short, you are powerless, yet exposed.Hmm.... one option.To me, personally and professionally, I have strong beliefs in civil liberties and rights, however, most of those stop at the door of the workplace for obvious reasons. While I vehemently oppose standard and random drug tests, priorities change when some loses an arm.Anyway, good luck.Len

10. 
    Bill_Biggs | Jan 18, 2001 08:48pm | #14

    *I'm a carpenter with 30 years experience.Was in the same position back in the 80's.I decided that the drunks were endangering me,took it personally,and kicked the biggest one's ass.Boss lectured me about fighting on the job,put me on another crew.The other crew was mostly older guys,great craftsmen,I learned allot.Moral of this story: violence is the last resort.

11. 
    Adrian_Wilson | Jan 18, 2001 09:17pm | #15

    *The union carpenter mag had a survey a few years ago that showed drug and alcohol abuse was the number one safety concern; a furniture and cabinet trade mag surveying plant owners turned up the same thing. It's not an isolated problem.

12. 
    Jim_Walters | Jan 18, 2001 09:28pm | #16

    *I love to smoke pot from time to time, but only when I'm at home making love or listening to Steppenwolf (remember him?)Unless your planning on making love at work, I'd get the hell away from those guys pronto.The guy will one day become a major alright, a major f---up.

13. 
    Derrell_Day | Jan 19, 2001 02:17am | #17

    *Dear Michael,Picture yourself in a courtroom..a customer whose home has been damaged or destroyed is suing your company...a fellow employee has been seriously injured or killed and his family's attorney is grilling you..everything you say is a matter of public record.."Now let me get this straight Mr.Brown. You say drug and alcohol use were common on your crew and yet you continued to allow these workers access to the job? You expect us to believe that you informed your supervisers and they did nothing? You sit here and tell us that you were the only one not using drugs on your crew? We see by the record here that you have now started your own contracting business..who are you currently working for?" Somtimes we have to make choices that are difficult to make. There are other jobs and other crews..Be a professional and seek out other professionals..they're more fun to work with anyway! Good Luck!

14. 
    Mark_M | Jan 19, 2001 02:54am | #18

    *Gary Reid, your co-workers, and your boss are morons!We are supposed to be professionals, and doing the best job we can do for ourselves, our bosses, and our clients. I have done alot of partying in my life, but I would quit in a second if I was in your shoes. There are alot of companies which would not tolerate what is happening on your job sites, find one of these companies.

15. 
    Johnnie_Browne | Jan 19, 2001 02:57am | #19

    *If any have a cdl license notify the dot wjen he stone, after a stiff fine he notice.Bid, big jobs like papermill,exxon,power plants chemical plant, shipyard. They all have drug teat at the gate.you could notify police, after the dog sniff, they be found.If boss is not going to do anything you got to make him look like a fool in the public, it is your life out there.12 years ago. a 200 ton crane lost his boom on top of my work truck. he was stoned.

16. 
    Keith_C | Jan 19, 2001 03:17am | #20

    *Talk about stoned......SPELL CHECK, WHERE HAVE YOU GONE!!!!!! Take that post to work and see if any of the stoners can make sense of it, and let me know the results.

17. 
    blue_eyed_devil_ | Jan 19, 2001 03:28am | #21

    *Jim?!!!! Steppenwolf??????????!!!!Get your motors running....into the 21st century!blue

18. 
    Andy_Engel_ | Jan 19, 2001 04:05am | #22

    *I've worked around drugged-up crews, but never on one. But I think of the trips I've taken to the ER myself, and of the other guys I've driven to the ER, and this when we were clean and sober. Isn't construction dangerous enough? I'm not a builder anymore, but if I still were, it would be zero tolerance on my job. Do what you want at home, but don't endanger me or anyone else on my job.Andy

19. 
    James_DuHamel | Jan 19, 2001 04:46am | #23

    *Michael,You have gotten some good advice so far, but YOU have to make the decision about what kind of working environment you want to be a part of. People who drink ON the job are alcoholics. They have to be, because no one in their right state of mind would put their job, their safety, the safety of others, and their work quality in jeopardy on a daily basis by drinking on the job (this includes liquid lunches). Drug users are the same. They only care about getting a buzz. They don't care about you, the job, or their quality of work. If they did, they wouldn't do it at work.They will not stop just because the owner tells them to. They probably already know that he isn't going to fire them unless something bad happens. Without any real punishment (i.e. loss of job) then there really is no reason to stop. It would be way too difficult and costly for him to fire seasoned workers, especially those who have been with him for a while. These workers are accustomed to his work practices, his methods, and his projects (especially the one they are currently working on). I had to fire a very good trim carpenter a few years back because he would sneak liquor on the jobsite and take small drinks all day. My reputation and the safety factor were way too important for my business to worry about losing a good man. He told me point blank that he was an alcoholic, and he had tried treatment several times. He stated that he would probably continue to drink on the job, so I let him go. He hasn't been able to hold a steady job since. I never did replace him. Get out or stay. It is YOUR decision, and only you can way the pros and cons of your decision. James

20. 
    MIchael_Brown | Jan 19, 2001 05:04am | #24

    *Of all the replies I have recieved, (which were more than i expected in 24 hours) Yours hit home the most. I have told my boss many times that if someone gets hurt, he will be in a load of trouble. Partly because he is aware of it. The last time I "ratted" on a couple of guys for smoking dope in a guys attic we were remodling. He had what he called a "stern" talk with the two offenders. It was their 3rd time being caught. They kept their job and was told that stuff would not be tolerated. Yet, he is aware of the rest of the crew doing and wont say anything to them. I just dont know. I dont like change. My job is a close drive, most of our remodels are in the area and I am paid fairly well. And he does isolated me from the rest of the crew quite a bit. Not sure what to do. thanks

21. 
    MIchael_Brown | Jan 19, 2001 05:18am | #25

    *b Thanks to everyone who replied.Alot of usefull advice. I really thought that I was gonna hear more from the other side. More of the "lighten up dude" "chill out! nark boy!"I think if there is one more situation that occurs I will have to move on. I'm becomeing more and more interested in cabinetry, furniture and "brain work" anyway. Thanks alot everyone!!!

22. 
    Johnnie_Browne | Jan 19, 2001 06:14am | #26

    *sorry, Keith C

23. 
    Jim_Walters | Jan 19, 2001 01:25pm | #27

    *I don't know, Blue, I'm just an old hippy who don't know what to do.My magic carpet's getting frayed, but I'm still ridin...and livin each day...tryin to give peace a chance. Young men see visions, old men dream dreams....I dream of those lovely children with flowers in their hair....where have all the flowers gone?

24. 
    Francis_Voignier | Jan 19, 2001 06:32pm | #28

    *In the early 70's I worked in a steel mill in eastern France where drinking on the job was not only common, but also encouraged. The rate of accidents was staggering, guys falling in molten steel, safety violations repeadedly leading to violent death or brutal injuries. We called the drinking a traditional and cultural practice. In those days, we could also drink at the wheel, and yes it was legal?!!!! Thirty years later, all of that has become the past. NO drinking allowed on any job site. Stringent regulations have proven that drugs are the major cause of easily avoidable accidents. I used to drink, I don't anymore and that was the best decision I ever made in my life. I will not work with alcoholics or generally hang out with them anymore. Clarity is heaven!fv

25. 
    Dan-O | Jan 19, 2001 08:52pm | #29

    *Michael, You're in a no win situation. Why? Because the boss is a shitbird. And shit runs downhill.. Get yourself on an even keel. Life's too short and the work's too hard for that nonsense. Start up on your own and call the shots. Enjoy the work and get your price! Regards,Dan-O

26. 
    Jennings_Easterbrook | Jan 20, 2001 03:56am | #30

    *I work hard to stay alive and I'll be damned if someone inadvertently kills me. Let me start by paraphrasing a right thinking sentiment that recurrs in this discussion--Mr. Brown, if you continue to play with monkeys you're eventually going to find yourself picking off fleas. We need Councilor Olson back on the board, but short of a J.D. and specialization in employment law, Mr. joe d. gives invaluable practical advice. Document everything you do to address the problem in your current employment situation. At the least, and if you must then you must--in some states you can get unemployment on a voluntary quit if you can prove unsafe working conditions (CA).Pull up your socks--you're what middle management disparagingly refers to as a "whistleblower". Generally speaking, if an employer can claim to a regulatory agency that they didn't know there was a problem, the employer walks with a hand slap. If you're telling your employer there's a problem, you've taken his "Get Out Of Liability for Free" card away. Retribution is a real concern. Sing for good and right and your fair share when the spirit moves you, but make sure the mortgage is prepaid for at least three months. Regarding drug testing in the workplace...I agree with Mr. Olson that it's a question of priorities no matter how fundamentally disagreeable. One day working under a goofed up 19 year old let loose with a new Paslode substantially modified my assumptions about the individual's right to life, liberty, and his particular pursuit of happiness.However, types of tests and quality of testing labs were not created equal--get me Olson--and the litmus test of the validity of employment practices when it hits the courts is whether or not that practice was enacted across the board with no definable prejudice--has Olson answered yet? There's a $13 and then a $30 test. That $13 test is subject to "false positives" and can be manipulated. Better no testing than imperfect testing. And, in an employment situation, you're working for bad business if the money man's eye isn't on the bottom line and if he hasn't tried to cap it out at $13 per incident. I just want the opportunity to pony up $30 to have Sandoval retested after he water loads. Anybody hear back from Olson yet? Personally, I prefer no testing to faulty testing with no recourse for myself and others. We need Olson back--promise him a hit out of the underwater welder's tank for reappearing. We need to know if an employee has issues re "chain of custody". If I can demand a retest of my original and uncompromised sample by a lab of my choice at cost of test, I'll willingly participate in substance abuse testing and Sandoval can go back to the take-out window at McDonald's, where truthfully, he does his best work.I was raised by steelworkers interested in making it to the finish line. Idiots ought to be happy about the technological advances...there were some pretty wicked ways of limiting risk in the old days.

27. 
    Rich_Beckman | Jan 20, 2001 06:52am | #31

    *This reminds me of a conversation that took place in my high school art class. Keep in mind that I was (am) anything but cool. Anyway, one "cool" guy was getting irritated by someone saying something and he pulled out "I bet you can't even tell me if Jethro Tull is a group or a guy." They didn't know and he turned to me and says "Beckman, I bet you know that Jethro Tull is a group" (which of course was a big put down that I knew and the other person didn't) and I of course answered "Well, sure, of course" even though I had no idea. I assume he asked it in that form because he figured I didn't know, but I would fake it if given the chance.Steppenwolf is (was) not a "him".Rich Beckman

28. 
    Gabe_Keway | Jan 20, 2001 09:40am | #32

    *in some weird way, i believe that drug use on the job has enabled me to a higher pay, more responsibility, as well as a more enriched learning of my trade.no, i don't use drugs nor do i condone their use on the job. However, my boss now, as well as my former boss and ALL co-workers, smoke pot during working hours. After a drive down the road and back, they rarely want to put a whole-hearted effort into the task at hand. Then comes me...ready to work and loving my job, i do it when others slack (including the managment). But, to my advantage, my efforts are well rewarded and i am able to reward myself with the beauty i create.Even whin things don't work, the boss is so mellow and laid back that it never becomes a problem. g

29. 
    Jim_Walters | Jan 20, 2001 01:11pm | #33

    *Steppenwolf is (was) not a "him". Whoops, you caught me. Next thing you're going to tell me is Pink Floyds not a person either. Man, here I was trying to be cool.......

30. 
    Brad_Raymer | Jan 20, 2001 03:39pm | #34

    *Get out of there! I cannot beleive the amount of people we work around like this. I am not a prude and I don't encourage drug testing, but on the job site you are part of a team and must be responsible for yourself AND those under your ladder. Take your time to find a good crew and be up front about everything with your current and next employer.Good luck.

31. 
    mike_"the_stick"_smith | Jan 20, 2001 05:02pm | #35

    *18 yr on the job,mostly high end 7000+sq.ft.some of the most creative carpenters I ever had the pleasure of working with smoked a little green bud. there attention to detail was job one,and for safety same thing. that is from vail o. to the sunny coast of calif. up too the Canadian border and back to montana.drug testing on the job? this is the us.. unlawful search and siezue is a fundemental right sounds like you want to search inside my body whitch is protected by the bill of rights too! if you dont like the jobsite role up you tools and join the union!!!! dont meaqn to be so pissed off but if we the citezens of this contry dont stop the fedral gov soon all of our rights will be trampeled on!!!!!!!!!!!! a few quick notes 1.pot has only been illigal since1937,pushed to that point by the tobacco componies,hey but lets listen to them!?!? not!!!!!!!!!!! 2.if you are unabl to perform role it up you are out of here. 3.pepole who are straitlaced scare the hell out of me,jeffrey dahmer was the pefect citizen or so his neighbors and co-workers said,oh, wait he ate pepole didnt he? so much for that idea.

32. 
    George_Abramshe | Jan 20, 2001 05:22pm | #36

    *Green bud, kind bud, whatever bud , it doesn't belong on the workplace if there is one person on the crew who dissents. I'm all for legalization for private use but there is no disputing that any alteration of the mental process from the clearest state of mind when SOMEONE ELSES safety and health are at issue should never be tolerated on the job. Do what you want with your own safety and health issues but it is unjustifiable to make a conscouis decision to alter the highest degree of mental clarity on the jobsite for your own pleasure. Show some restraint for 8 hrs. and do it at home and on your own time. I've been on both sides of the fence and can't believe I use to be so brazenly insolent to put my own pleasure before the welfare of others. If EVERYBODY is getting high or drunk you all can share the same risk although I don't know how fair it is to the client who is probaly expecting their work to be performed and completed by a professional with zero stimulants in their brain on their time.

33. 
    Grasshopper_ | Jan 20, 2001 06:18pm | #37

    *If I was in the biz I would hire you on the spot, Michael, just on this issue you bring up, alone. It speaks very well of your integrity and character. The problem I have is, if this is a common problem, would quitting only mean you will come across the same problem at the next job? - Is the reaction you've come across also common?We found out one of our techs just recently smoked pot with a i customer,for God's sake, and that will be the last time. I commend you. I respect you.

34. 
    Francis_Voignier | Jan 20, 2001 06:33pm | #38

    *Every time someone leaves a hammer on top of a step ladder, drywalls over tools left in the walls, pours concrete over a priceless piece of nostalgia, it never fails, pot is involved. Like a lot of others, I believe pot doesn't belong on the job site. People's private space is sacred, but when I work with unconsiderate individuals, they simply superimpose their reality over mine and the ones of others with utter disrespect or uneducated assumptions. I certainly disagree with the Feds and their invasive and hypocritical anticonstitutionality in regard to some regulations and random drug testing, for I consider the latter a serious infraction on individual privacy. It is up to the "boss" to do the screening and establish the guidelines. If the boss is a pot head, I'm sure he/she prefers pot-headed workers. It is up to the worker to draw the line as to where he/she belongs on the job site, but no-one should have to live in or work in a place that violate simple principals and standards. I'm tired of hammers falling on my head...fv

35. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 20, 2001 07:49pm | #39

    *So potheads are the "hammer on the ladder" culprits...!!!!near the stream,aj

36. 
    Keith_C | Jan 20, 2001 07:56pm | #40

    *Once , as a senior in high school a stoner put a door stile into the shaper backwards(first class in the a.m.)and it spit it out at 200mph into the wall beside me. I grabbed a pair of 12" channelocks and skipped them off a tablesaw top, bounced them off his head and then thru a paint booth window. Teacher was standing beside me. Man ,was he pissed about that window. Kid got 24 stitches to close his head wound, I got 1 week of in-school suspension. I've gone on to work in the oil field with some heads that eventually lost most of their fingers while high, one got burned real bad in a fire. That was scary work, everthing above you on cat lines weighs as much as a S-10. That pretty much goes with the territory though. Construction is no different. While I won't tolerate it, and once ran off a concrete finishing crew for cookin' a few while they waited for the crete to set up(bad idea, I had to finish a 3 car garage myself, from the lights of a truck and bobcat) My point is this, you don't have to tolerate it if you don't want to. BUT, in your company you are the minority from what I hear, so it is up to you to move on if you feel threatened or in danger. If you don't you are a moron. Right or wrong , the majority rules. You can be dead right, many have been before you.

37. 
    Francis_Voignier | Jan 20, 2001 08:14pm | #41

    *"Hammer on the ladder" among other things... The last time something felt by me, it was my skilsaw that a pothead had conveniently left on top of a timber frame bent. Somehow, alternative construction attracts pot smokers, and the walls on straw bale housing, can accomodate larger tools. I bet you could almost sit a small concrete mixer atop one of those walls! The morale of the story is that hardhats must be worn around potheads.fv

38. 
    Jim_K_ | Jan 20, 2001 09:19pm | #42

    *>The morale of the story is that hardhats must be worn around potheads.And the homeowner had better watch out or he/she will be the one getting into trouble.Had a tree-cutter on site near the end of construction. He says, "I don't know if they are your plants or not, but be careful that no one official walks behind your house."Turns out that plants were coming up right where a stucco crew had been working 6 months earlier. Given what that crew had been costing me, I had it out with their boss, but as the work was over, there wasn't much I could accomplish. He did sound a little freaked about workman's comp issues if discovered. Same crew threw two guys off the site on different occasions for drinking. Guess that weed was ok but booze was bad to them. Neither were OK to me, but they were good at hiding it, apparently.

39. 
    Scott_Joliat | Jan 20, 2001 09:40pm | #43

    *I don't know what kind of national exposure the story got, but about four years ago a crane operator working on Ohio State's new arena decided to move the crane with the boom all the way extended. Crane got off-center and fell on it's side. the boom reached out of the construction site and flattened a car waiting at a red light. Killed the driver. Turns out the driver tested legally drunk from drinking the night before. I've personally witnessed plenty of pot smokers on the framing crews I've worked on which has made me extremely uneasy. That is the one extreme. To the other extreme, once I had to borrow two laborers from a friends company to help me finish a slab, and when the work was done I paid them and gave them each a case of beer (It was a Friday afternoon and they were both college guys - got them setup for the weekend). When they got back to the shop in their company truck they were fired on the spot for having beer in the truck. I had to explain why they had it to my buddy to smooth things over. I prefer to work in the more stringent environment - stupidity doesn't seem to be as prevailing.

40. 
    M.Brown | Jan 22, 2001 01:48am | #44

    *Gabe. I got what you wrote and it is exactly like my work place. I have moved higher for the same reasons, however, it is troublesome when your boss brings you back a 32" flat panel door when you needed a 30 6panel. Then says " you think you can make it work?" NOOOO!!!Or when you tell him that he needs to call the client BEFORE you go out there because 6am is pretty early to knock on someones door for tear out...and he forgets. I am paid by the hour so you would think it doesnt matter...it does! I try to be as efficient as possible and shit like that doesnt help. I appreciate your thoughts though and I know what you are tryng to say

41. 
    Rich_Beckman | Jan 22, 2001 03:46am | #45

    *Pink Floyd isn't a he?!?!?! I am stunned! Man, how could I have been so wrong?Rich Beckman

42. 
    Rein_Taul | Jan 22, 2001 04:31am | #46

    *It's the people who can't separate their recreation from their jobs that gives the recreation a bad name.As much as most of us love our jobs, we would rather get them done and go somewhere nice to party or relax with our free time. The job site boozers and stoners not only rob us of our safety, they rob us of our free time. It takes twice as long to get things done with them around. Have some respect for your co-workers, show up on time (more or less) and ready to work properly.

43. 
    Jim_Walters | Jan 22, 2001 02:54pm | #47

    *A good framer sinks a spike in two or three wacks. A good framer stoned on weed sinks a spike in twenty wacks...but first he examines the nail, then he examines the hammer, then he examines the board and gets hung up on the grain pattern for a moment, then he picks the perfect spot and tap,tap, taps the nail in, after a few wows he dances around the board like Tom Hanks in the Castaway proudly exclaiming, "I have sunk a nail!" ....then he heads for his lunch bucket and the pack of Twinkys.

44. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 22, 2001 02:59pm | #48

    *Jim....Ya just exposed my whole jobsite routine man. And that's just from my natural state of affairs...Don't get me goin....near the stream,aj (move with the wind and yee shall not find resistance)

45. 
    The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Jan 22, 2001 03:01pm | #49

    *Mr. Floyd to you pal....near the stream calling Pinky about this,aj

46. 
    Francis_Voignier | Jan 22, 2001 05:08pm | #50

    *I'd hate to think what this good framer does on coke or acid!fv

47. 
    Jim_K_ | Jan 22, 2001 05:59pm | #51

    *First time the plumbers visited our job, the one helper stood on a porch looking out over a 40 mile long range view and said, "Wow, this'd be a great place to do acid, man." And he meant it.

48. 
    L._Siders | Jan 23, 2001 10:44am | #52

    *Dope & booze on the job site is a no-no. I'm a cabinetmaker & my machinery will bite you big time. I still can count to ten on my fingers. Had a guy show up on a week end to use my shop with a 12 pack. I told him that beer or dope was forbidden in my shop. He said OK & left.

49. 
    David_Taylor | Jan 24, 2001 07:17am | #53

    *When they've all cut their fingers off they won't be able to roll splifs or open cans. End of problem.

50. 
    Mike_Shultz | Jan 27, 2001 12:50am | #54

    *The company I work for went 100%drug testing after a new hire fell to his death from the second floor. He had just installed a handrail post and fell when he leaned against it. Drugs were suspected as a culprit but the widow would not consent to testing. Lawyers/Lawsuits=Drug Testing. Half of the people in the company either quit or were fired when testing began. After ten years the company's worker comp rate has been cut in half and business is booming. The drug users went to work for the competition. (Talk about dealing a blow to your competition!)

51. 
    Sandy_Winfrey | Jan 27, 2001 12:52pm | #55

    *I have been in the construction trade for 16 years and been leading crews for about 13. I have worked under some foremen that either didnt know this sort of thing was going on or just didnt bother to acknowledge....so I know the frustration of the situation that you are in now. When I finally began leading crews, it was made very clear that drug and alcohol use on the job would the quickest way to the unemployment line. Fortunately my boss was 100% behind me, and we have had no problems. It doesnt sound like you are quite so lucky. You mentioned that he was possibly going to be a major contractor.....unless he has a real life change, it probably isnt going to happen. Stick to your guns.....your attitude is the best one....leave it at home. Our business is dangerous enough when the crew is sober, and there is no need to risk your safety because someone else is not adult enough to realize that stupidity like that can kill. I hate to say it, but it sounds to me like you are in a no-win situation.....maintain your attitude and I doubt you will have any trouble at all finding another job.

52. 
    Carl_Shaw | Jan 27, 2001 07:39pm | #56

    *Michael, it's time to go back on your own. You say you have accumulated a bit of experience on this job. Good. Go use somewhere else. And people ask me why I prefer to work as my own man. Good luck.

53. 
    PAV-UK | Jan 29, 2001 11:44pm | #57

    *iam a partition erector[mainly drywall onto steel studwork]of about 20 years experience.in the last few weeks i have been troubled by pain in the webbing between the thumb and index finger of my drillhand.this has now developed into a pain along the length of both digits and the inability to fully bend the thumb.i`ve tried massage and warming it up but as yet no improvement.has anyone out there suffered from the same or,even better , got the cure ?dont bother with "try the other hand " cos my holster would be on the wrong side .

54. 
    PAV-UK | Jan 29, 2001 11:54pm | #58

    *Iam a partition erector[mainly drywall onto steel studwork]of about 20 years experience.In the last few weeks I have been troubled by pain in the webbing between the thumb and index finger of my drillhand.This has now developed into a pain along the length of both digits and the inability to fully bend the thumb.I`ve tried massage and warming it up but as yet no improvement.Has anyone out there suffered from the same or,even better , got the cure ?Dont bother with "try the other hand " cos my holster would be on the wrong side .

55. 
    Keith_C | Jan 31, 2001 02:39am | #59

    *You could try smoking some pot as others have suggested, it may make your pain go away. Possibly a new line of work? C'mon guys help me out here. What is this guy to do?

56. 
    Bill_Richardson | Jan 31, 2001 03:08am | #60

    *I love the drink, but I couldn't work with someone doing the drink or smoke at work, and if you can't come to work sober....I wouldn't work with him/her either. There is no excuse for coming to work late or not at all due to a "habit". Too many accidents I have witnessed due to habits gone bad, in the military and out. I wouldn't be worried about being called a prude or some other name, if you can work by yourself and get the job done correctly, what do you have to worry about. If someone else doesn't like your opinion (or mine for that matter), tell 'em that its a bad habit of yours to be outspoken for what you believe in. Measure twice, cut once.

57. 
    Carl_Shaw | Jan 31, 2001 03:25am | #61

    *What to do? Don't smoke pot Pav-uk it will help you with nausea but not pain. I wouldn't switch hands either. I only work with my right hand. (well on the job anyway, LOL) Seriously, I don't know what this has to do with this thread but it sounds like tendinitis of the flexor or abductor muscles of the thumb. If this is the case you need to ice it, take an anti-inflamitory (Advil, Motrin or aspirin) and rest it. You have an overuse injury. If it is hurting don't put heat on it as this will increase blood flow and increase the inflammation. Use the heat later when the pain subsides. If it doesn't respond to this standard treatment then get it checked out. Either you have been hanging a lot of rock lately or like the rest of us you are getting older. Take care of yourself. (here's the disclaimer: see your doctor before taking any medication) Oh by the way, Advil on the job is usually o.k.

58. 
    Rein_Taul | Jan 31, 2001 03:33am | #62

    *PAV,Sounds like repetitive strain injury. The sooner you address it with a doctor, the sooner you can avoid permanent damage. Don't mask it with pain killers until you know what is causing it. Your precious hands are trying to tell you something!

2. 
   MIchael_Brown | Jan 31, 2001 03:33am | #63

   *
   I have been working with a remodeling company for the last 3 years.Before that I ran my own business for 4 but realized that I needed to learn more and I must say that I have learned alot in these three years and I love my job. I have earned alot of respect with my boss(es)and the clients make positive comments about me to my bosses. I have one problem though. There is ongoing drug use at the job,..and i mean AT THE JOB! There is one guy that hits 3 or 4 beers at lunch and from what I hear he hits 3 or 4 in the mornings as well. I know that I work in a field that is somewhatcomplacent to this behavior and i am not without guilt. 11 years ago I was reckless as well, but I never sparked one up in a clients house or came to work drunk. I was late many times but i kept it at the house.
   I have informed my supervisor, who is a known part animal. At 50 years old he is a wildman still,..but he swears he doesnt condone drug use at work.
   I mentioned it to the owner who swears he doesnt condone drug use on the job and vows to correct this problem. The whole crew knows where I stand so they keep it from me. They dont threaten me to silence because i have seniority there. I just dont have the authority to fire someone when I catch them smokinf pot on the job. It has got to the point where I cant even tell my foreman because I feel he just laughs it off behind my back.
   Actually I feel like a bit of a fool now. Pointing my finger and saying " hey this aint rightcan you stop it please" I have one request at work to everyone and they know what it is. "keep it at the house". Save it for after work is not that unreasonable. I am human and I know how it used to be. That doesnt change the fact that the entire job can be jeopardized..which translates into my paycheck.
   Can anyone comment, suggest, opinionate. I really like my job! I am sent out alone to tackle a variety of jobs. My boss gives me plenty of freedom especially in finish work and I lke that. I dont want to have to quit..I feel he is very close to becoming a MAJOR contractor. But I feel this is stopping him. Thanks for your time,....if I am being a prude tell me.
   M. Brown
   Texas