Replies

1. 
   unclemike42 | May 31, 2020 07:53am | #1

   How much cellulose is in the attic?

   I see two choices (three if you include ignoring it and not looking up)

   you can put furring strips under the existing drywall, jack up snug and screw through the sagging drywall and into the joists. Then screw and glue drywall into the furring strips. You may have to shim the furring strips to get it all level. and I would start with a good vapor barrier. the lack of a proper vapor barrier, and not enough ventilation is likely the source of moisture that let the drywall get saggy.

   second option is remove the existing cellulose. contractors can use a truck mounted long hose to suck it all out without making a mess. this option also lets you examine the entire structure, which is getting close to 50 years old, and make sure the wiring and other utilities (HVAC for example) are sound. This also gets rid of any insects, rodents, and things they leave behind.

1. 
   JoeFromRomeoMichigan | May 31, 2020 10:40am | #2

   Thanks for your input, UncleMike. The drywall is drooping almost like sheets. The drywallers took a short cut and used fewer nails...so you can't just slip a furring strip under them... nor would you want to. you'd still have the "drapes" and it wouldn't be "flat"
   -
   I think that the right way to go is to pull it all down and out, but what a mess.
   -
   I possibly could get into the attic and comb the insulation back one room at a time.. make sure that the gap is clear... try to lift the 50 year old drywall with some sort of jack.. screw it back into place.. but not sure how flat that would be..
   -
   I've been ignoring it for 20 years here... but sooner or later its going to fall on its own.. and it will be a distractant for anyone buying the house...

   ugh

2. 
   unclemike42 | May 31, 2020 01:46pm | #3

   Perhaps you misunderstand me.

   the furring strips would be placed under the drywall, that is, closer to the floor of the room they hang on. when screwed up into the rafters (which would be at right angles to the furring strips) the furring strips would hold the drywall up. you can put these furring strips as close together as need be, but 16 inch centers should do the trick. 12 if you need to.

   Something like this https://www.familyhandyman.com/drywall/ceiling-repair-fix-a-sagging-ceiling/

   but as I said, the furring strips can run at right angles to the rafters.

   you also can get steel strips if you think you need more oompf.https://sebringdesignbuild.com/the-informative-hat-channel-furring-channel-guide/

   the cleanest way is to pull it all down, as you understand.

   Even in this case, starting with an empty attic and bare rafters, furring is the best way to make the ceiling level.

1. 
   JoeFromRomeoMichigan | May 31, 2020 02:43pm | #4

   Hi UncleMike,
   - NOW I UNDERSTAND! Thanks for sending that link - and YES that is exactly how my ceiling looks. That was a great tip to share.. and will likely be the way that I go when I attempt to repair it. I have a double whammy.. they cheap skated and went with not only 1/2" drywall.. they skimped on nails after using black mastic adhesive to hold it up... I Hope that the drywall doesn't break and fall when I screw those furring strips over the ceiling portion of the old drywall.... never ends

   Thank You - very much - for responding and finding that link - I greatly appreciate it

1. 
   calvin | May 31, 2020 04:10pm | #5

   Greetings, if the drywall is badly sagged you may need to use 2x2,3... instead of commonly used furring. Try both before you load up a bunch of material. Some sagged drywall seems to have “expanded” and getting it to flatten takes a bit more oomph. Rather than maybe just bending the thinner furring strip

   And, might be wise to use a “T” prop to force it up prior to fastening a strip of furring. After you cram the prop up, temporarily tack it so it doesn’t slide and fall.

   Best of luck.

1. 
   JoeFromRomeoMichigan | May 31, 2020 07:53pm | #6

   Thanks for the input Calvin. Yah- I agree if I had some sort of jack to help raise it - might be a good idea.. I never noticed this when I looked at the house... the first night in the house - you look up and say... "are my eyes deceiving me? or is the ceiling droopy?"... ugh

3. 
   unclemike42 | Jun 01, 2020 07:49am | #7

   Thinking about this. it may be that the drywall drooped when it was damp, and if dry, will not cooperate in being moved into place.

   You can make a suitable jack by cutting a 2 x 4 to an apropriate length, and placing a shorter length to set on top, which will actually lift the drywall. if you do not have solid surface floors, set it on a third length of 2 x 4, laid flat, which you will use to slide the other two into place. starting from an angle, this should do the job.

   you can get fancy with hinges and other supports, but the core is a 2 x 4 you jam into place.

   whatever you end up doing will be dusty

   remember to get proper breathing protection before you start. (or at least before you get too far into this job)

4. 
   unclemike42 | Jun 01, 2020 08:00am | #8

   https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/how-to-install-drywall-ceiling.html

   https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/images/drywallceilingtee.gif

   You also can try to lift into place and just hold the existing drywall with drywall screws. drywall screws are cheap, and if they do the job, you will avoid lots of work.

1. 
   sawdust_steve | Jun 01, 2020 09:34am | #9

   Or even better try screwing the drywall back in using plaster washers. You can always skim coat and spackle over the plaster washer for a flat surface.
   (https://www.idealtruevalue.com/store/p/121902-25-Pack-Extra-Large-Zinc-Plated-Plaster-Washers.aspx?feed=Froogle&gclid=CjwKCAjwztL2BRATEiwAvnALcrd0VNQcs8dVkaM-jKnI0wQLC85tvy_w8qEPJepJ9-rnICwqOyR_4hoCbUIQAvD_BwE)

1. 
   JoeFromRomeoMichigan | Jun 01, 2020 11:10am | #10

   Thanks Sawdust Steve! I really appreciate the help and the link.. Like they say- you learn something new every day1 I do think that to push/pull the "pillowing"/Drooping ceiling dry wall back up -

   - I'm going to neeed to get into the attic,
   - 1) comb the insulation back.
   - 2) Clear out underneath each truss bottom/ceiling top...
   - 3) from the room below, use some sort of large surface jack and Push the ceiling Up - secure with more drywall screws.
   - 4)Add firring strips...and string a line to make sure that they are level and square(ish).
   - 5) install a new 5/8" drywall.
   - 6) comb the insulating back over the room...

   - Gonna be quite the chore and not a whole lot of fun.... but the ceilings look terrible as they are.
   - Almost starting to look like tearing them down might be the way to go.....

5. 
   unclemike42 | Jun 01, 2020 04:57pm | #11

   You really might want to start with having an insulation contractor give you a quote to suck all the old stuff out, and then re-fill after you are done fixing the ceiling.

   the cleanest job will be rip it all out, (Old saggy drywall)

   put plastic vapor barrier on the bottom of the joists

   install furring at right angles to the joists shim as required

   Look at a laser level.

   when you install the drywall, rent a lift and put the drywall at right angles to the furring. get drywall long enough to avoid end joints.

   This is a great time to check all the wiring which may be there.

   and if there is any duct work in the attic. seal all the joints and insulate the duct work.

   our early 1970s house had massive leaks in attic duct work, and actually had a 6 inch metal duct disconnected from the end dumping hot and cold air into the attic.

   that era job can leak up to 30% of the air you spend your hard earned dollars to heat and cool.

   Look at the bright side, how much money you will save over the years.

6. 
   Plumb13 | Jun 01, 2020 05:35pm | #12

   Is the ceiling flat or sloped? Is the drywall fastened to rafters, or joists, or trusses? Are they properly sized? Are they 16 or 24 inches on center? Is there adequate ventilation? Any evidence of moisture damage to the drywall or framing?

   Tear it all out, determine what the problem is, correct it, then install new insulation and drywall.

7. 
   user-6828225 | Jun 01, 2020 10:08pm | #13

   Retired drywall contractor here with 45 years in the trade. Key elements here.

   1. The drywall at some point has absorbed enough moisture to lose its inherent strength, causing it to sag, and not just a little, as evidenced by the fact that the original poster said he could place his whole hand between the back of the drywall and the rafter, though I think he means the ceiling joist, not the rafter, because there is no attic to go into if the drywall is attached to the rafter.

   2. The original attachment of the drywall using glue in combination with minimal nailing was sometimes done in the days before the advent of drywall screws, and was done in an attempt to minimize nail pops (but could not be done over a polyethylene vapor barrier). This method was not a shortcut and is not responsible for the sagging, since the glued face paper is still attached to to the framing member. It was the moisture absorbed by the drywall that caused the core to separate from the face paper.

   3. When the drywall has sagged to this extent, and taken a set when dry, it is now longer and wider than when it was installed. No amount of force that could be reasonably applied by furring strips is going to shrink the drywall and force it back to flat. Most likely the furring strips will conform to the sag rather than the other way around, and it's too much work with the risk of a bad result.

   Plumb 13 has it right, "Tear it all out, determine what the problem is, correct it, then install new insulation and drywall." The emphasis needs to be on determining the source of the moisture that ruined the drywall, and eliminating it. Things to consider going forward are a vapor barrier and air sealing between the living space and the attic, and proper ventilation of the attic. Sorry, but re-doing the drywall is the least of your problems.