easy way to straight line rough sawn
alwaysoverbudget
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
so i got this great deal on some white oak a while back,right now i don’t feel that way.
it’s all finished planed,but i have to get one edge straightlined. did some tonight by using a 10″ pc of plywood and fastening the board to that with 2 screws ,then sawing it. there has to be a better way. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there’s not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Replies
How much do you have and how long is it?
You could always make a sled with some toggle clamps attached to it. That would at least save the labor of screwing the board each time plus you wouldn't have screw holes to contend with.View Image
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
the clamps was what i orig thought about using. but some boards are 5" some are 9,that stumps me on how to use one sled .maybe the 5" is real close to the sled's edge and you let the 9 hang out 4.???
these boards run about 9' -10' long i've got probably 250 boards to straight line. thanks larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I can straighten them for you with the woodmizer -
a power feed on a tablesaw will work very well also -
i like the power feed idea.whats 1 of them run?500? i can tell the wife that i'm saving all this money on wood i can buy a new tool .larry if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
probably can claim it's 'green', too - "there's enough for everyone"
Power feed is very, very cool. Or you could buy a couple damn toggles for $30 and have it done by the time you've got the feeder mounted and working right. Alternative is to clamp the board to factory edge ply or some straight-edge and have at it with a router and flush-trim bit. . . no need for that approach, tablesaw is better.
>a power feed on a tablesaw will work very well also -
So how do you use the powerfeed to get a straight line? I don't think I could make my 1/4HP delta powerfeed keep a board going straight without something to guide against. As per their instructions, I set the feeder at a slight angle to keep the board against the fence.
Is a larger feeder capable of keeping the board moving straight by itself?
Don
In one of big shops I was in the line is set by a laser from the cieling or far wall, and the feeder is a belt that is on either side of the blade, with pressure rollers from above.
Flop the first board for edgeing ( using the laser as a guide) and shove it in..helper/ catcher sends it back and put the new edge against a fence set at whatever you are ripping to and feed it again. You can go thru a lot of lumber pretty fast.
Angled power feeders are not gonna cut it, but set dead straight, and straddleing the blade may do it. The laser is a big help and that could be cobbled up in a small shop pretty easily, just line it with the blade.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
my experience with this goes back several years and van load of cottonwood - back before woodmizer and my wide planer I used to take rough lumber over to the Eiseman pallet factory, where the brothers that own it would rent out their 36" planer for a bit of cash and a few jugs of cider - I took this load over and while we were setting up, I complained about the 'wang' that many of the boards exhibited and how was I going to straighten them up?Joe E said; 'why don't we get you a straight edge to work off of'? - he walked over to their table saw - a large heavy powerful unit (5 hp? 10 hp?) outfitted with a corrospondingly powerful feeder, made a couple of adjustments, eye-balled the edge, shoved the 2"X14"X12' board into the feeder - took about 5 seconds to rip a small sliver off the proud edge, leaving a accurately straight to index off of - we did most of that load, and that's about the sum total of my experience with straightening boards with a power feeder and table saw - I'd use my woodmizer to do it now, and I have a 24" planer, so I haven't had to worm my way back into the pallet factory's schedule - it was a remarkable experience that I remember vividly 25 years later - "there's enough for everyone"
Dino can fix you up. EZ
If you dont think you have a need for an EZ or a Festool (gotta give both of em there due) then you could just make a shoting board.
How long is the white oak? make your shoting board just a bit longer and set it on and make your cut on one side and then run them through the table saw for the final.
You'd be done in less time then the debate on which tool (EZ Vs Festool) would be best for the job will take!
Doug
I am with you . Shooting board and two deep throat vice grip adjustable "C" clamps with the swivel pads on them.
15 second set up on each board and then cut it, Board shouldn't take but 30 seconds max to have a straightedge on it.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
shooting board for a piece 9 feet or 10 feet long?
Stephen
Sure thing, snap a chalkline for the first one and use it for the rest.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Sphere--- I think of the term "shooting board" as a jig for use in combo with a handplane for fitting miters etc. in woodworking. Marson outlines what I have done to put perfect circ. saw cuts on bigger things like a door, etc.-- I suppose it's a " shooting board" I just don't think of it as a " shooting board"
Stephen
Edited 6/21/2008 11:21 am ET by Hazlett
LOL, I should have figured that out. THAT kind of shooting board is almost archaic these days, except among the elitists and hand tool purists. They kinda went the way of the "miter jack" as well.
You are correct about the terminology, it just seems the name has been adopted to include the common "Plywood base with a fixed fence for a circsaw" type cutting guide.
I bow to your deeper understanding (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"We strive for conversion,we get lost in conversation, and wallow in consternation. "Me.
Jeeze Stephen, yer such a nerd<G> Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Well actually, we used to call it a "straight line device". Seriously. I figured more people would know what I meant by "shooter board".
well went out and made sawdust today,alot of it. i ended up using a "shooter board" made out of a pc of masonite siding 16' long[i always knew there was a good use for masonite] cut it to 11' and started ripping.
i really like the idea of setting up a 25' rip fence,if i ever do this again thats what i'll do.
i'm not to sold on this buying cheap rough sawn wood,i've got as much time in getting it ready as it would of took to build all the stiles for the kitchen with nice wood. larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Really, it costs me a dime a board to get them straight line ripped... that was an epiphany<G> Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
If you are doing cabinetry and you still don't have a Festo saw, then that's just plain foolish ;-)Steve
alwaysoverbudget,
Buying cheap wood is a way to trade time for money.. I paid a modest price for all of my wood but it wasn't ready to turn into fine things yet.. However I could afford the modest price I paid and I couldn't afford to buy ready to use wood. The estimated $750,000 + I saved over the cost of buying finished wood allowed me to do things which my budget simply wouldn't let me if I paid retail prices..
True I've eaten a lot of sawdust and had to buy some added equipment to process all of it.. But once you get a system in place you can quickly get done without much work..
For example When running my wood through the planner I run it one way and then turn the planner around and run it back through the other way rather than move that whole stack of wood. I use those rollers I mentioned for many things not just sawing. but planning and jointing and shaping etc..
I have a straight line rip jig that I have used for years. It is made up using a 12' piece of 7/8" Bally Block 4" backsplash. Dead straight and flat.
View Image
A 1-1/2 X 6" cleat is screwed to the tail end for a 'hook'. One rip. Straight edge.
View Image
I have extensions for longer stock.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Why not? I don't see it as difficult to make one that long or longer.
Just read your comment above, what Marson is talking about is what I was talking about. They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Edited 6/21/2008 11:34 am by dovetail97128
Keep it simple. Snap a chalk line on one edge, and freehand that cut with a skilsaw. If you're any good with a saw, you ought to be able to cut it pretty straight.
Take that edge and run it on the fence of your table saw, to get a cleaner cut on the other side. Whatever small bumps etc. you have on your "by eye" cut line will get evened out riding the saw fence.
Now if you want to get fancy, rough out your straight cut with your skilsaw as above, then clamp a straightedge to the board, and use a bearing guided router bit to clean up the cut edge. Makes it perfect, just like a jointer would.
I would do it like you said, with one minor change. Overall process:
- chalk a line
- skilsaw
- rip on table saw with skilsawed line to fence
- flip board and rip off the first edge.
That's what I was trying to say...just wasn't clear.
I have done this method many times, before I ever heard of festool.
Take a piece of plywood or OSB and rip a 6" strip off it. Flip the 6" strip onto the 42" piece like closing a book. The factory edge will be your cutting guide. Screw and glue this strip to the offcut. Run your skilsaw with the bed against the factory edge. Now you have a shooting board that gives you an instant visual of where the cut will be. The bed of the saw rides on the plywood.
It can be affixed to the board with screws, though spring clamps or quick grips would be faster. I have even heard of shooting brads through and snipping them off so that just a little stub protrudes. The shooting board grips the board you want to cut--no clamps needed. I haven't tried that one though.
You should definitely have a worm drive for this. I have used this method to straight line full 2x white oak and the worm drive with a fresh blade can handle it.
How thick the plywood is depends on how much depth of cut you need. 3/8" is fine. The problem is that there is the oil fill plug on the worm drive that limits how deep you can set the saw...it will hit the edge of the "fence" if the plywood is too thick.
The 10 foot lengths may be a problem. 10 foot plywood is certainly made, but the stores around here don't stock it. They do stock 4 X 9 sheathing.
Your speed will depend a lot on your effeciency in how you set up, where you pile the finished product, etc. Think about every movement and try to maximize efficiency on every step. Some sort of overhead cord would help, too, because managing the cord of a saw costs time.
AAB,
You say you have 250 of these. One approach would be to mount a 20' rip fence to your table saw ( a nice straight 2x something, or get your hands on a TGI ). Set up an in feed and out feed support.
Now you can index one side ( the concave side, or tack a couple of blocks to one edge to run on the fence ) and your in business.
Happy ripping, Harry
"Sigh"... I've done this a lot of ways. A 32' fence out plywood scabbed upA 98" shooting board out of 1/4" mdfDoor planerI have a 14' 5/4 x 8 piece of maple that I jointed straight. Use it with a router and flush cutting bit.3 sections of EZ guide.Shooting boards are the handiest, besides running a circular saw down them, you can pin (or toggle) or just hold boards on them, then run that thru the table saw with the shooting board against the fence. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
easy way?
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWw4EmmKuSc
david
when did cheec and chong quit smoking refer and start selling tools? larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
hard questions to easy answers?
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Yes.
david
I built a lot of furniture and usually bought all my lumber rough..................
I chalked one edge and (I'm sure to catch hell for this) used my tablesaw to cut the line..........
cut board on the left side of blade.......fence on right...........
got a real close to true cut...
then used the fence to rip to oversize ...then flipped and ripped the freehand side to true size.............then joiner did the rest...........
fast, but a wee bit dangerous free handing hardwood through the uni-saw
alwaysoverbudget,
My solution is very simple but sorta elaborate because I have so much wood to cut..
Plus I have 18-20 foot long boards not just mere 8 footers.. I bought two used 10 foot long rollers..(you could use mere 8 footers) You know those package rollers. Every major city will have someplace that sells them check for material handling in your yellow pages..
One for infeed and one for out feed on my table saw.. Set on saw horses shimed to level with the table.
Then I take a 24 foot long piece of angle.(you could use a mere 18 footer) The length of it keeps the board staight even though the edge isn't. I sight down the edge of the board to be sure that I miss all the curves etc.. and push it thru like a giant fence extension..
Perfect straight edge.. Very fast once the whole thing is set up. I run all my longer boards thru and then run them thru the shaper/jointer or whatever else is needed and put them up.. Don't store them! Wood is alive! It dances around like a hootcie cootchie dancer. Once nailed into position it gets set in it's ways though.. <grin>
If you only have a few boards clamp a straight edge to it and use a skill saw.
Quick hijack.
Hey French, I got that Grizzly water wheel sharpener you suggested I get (rather than the $$$ Tormek).
Shazaam Dude! I owe ya one!Now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast.
Jer,
Glad it's working for you! have you tried the scary sharp method yet?
Yes. I have about every honing stone and method there is.
Diamond, ceramic, Japanese, Arkansas, and the good old alu oxide stones. I didn't really catch on to scary sharp until after I had all these stones. I do like it a lot and the great thing about it is that is CHEAP!...initially anyways.
Actually though, if you think about how long I've had my Japanese stones (almost 25 years), they are still fresh as ever, and I have honed miles of steel on them. I wonder how much wet & dry paper I would have gone through over that period of time.I don't use the ceramic, Arkansas or alu oxide anymore. Mostly it's the diamond for flattening & quick fixes and the Japanese for fine hone. Occasionally I will use scary sharp. It's apples & oranges for me & I'm just used to the Japanese stones.
jer,
Well I still have my original set of sand paper going on 7 years now and I doubt I'll be replacing any of it in the next decade.. A few drops of fresh oil is all I'll need per sheet.. just enough to stick it to the glass.. I suppose In a decade I'll use a guart or so.. Aw, who knows how long that baggie will remain so maybe sometime I'll need another one..
You use oil on yours? Interesting, I always used water.
I say along the same lines as what Marson and Dovetail said. A long shooting board made of plywood that your circ saw rides on clamped directly to the stock, all done on horses & long straight planks. With a helper each piece should take no longer than a 45 sec or so as you 'get the rhythm.
I'm intrigued by Frenchy's suggestion, but it seems like a lot of money to shell out, and room that you would need for those rollers than it's worth. Maybe if you so this type of thing all the time it would be worth the time, money and space.
Larry, one way of doing it is to run the best edge through a jointer a couple of times
Ideally a few passes through the jointer and you have a nice edge
You're welcome to borrow my jointer if you need it
John
always and All ,
I realize you have it done by now but thought I would share a straight line rip jig I use . No clamping or fastening or laser or power feeder needed.
I have them made in various lengths to 12' as that is typically the longest I use.
Just place the board with the crook facing the fence and against the jig run them through the saw , the newly cut edge will be fine for referencing off of .
regards dusty
By far the easiest way I've found to work with rough cut boards is to first cut them to a closer rough length and use an extension fence. Ripping a straight edge on a 10' board takes at least three times as much time as three 3' boards or even two 5' boards.
For this type of work a full length (8') outfeed table is a must. Use plenty of paste wax on everything to save a great deal of effort and get better results.
An aluminum C channel is perfect for an extension fence since it clamps onto the existing fence so easily. A channel about 1/4" thick x 3" to 4" wide and 7' or 8' long works really well when clamped so the far end extends only two feet beyond the blade. A 6' extension is just to short for most 10' boards and probably doubles the work over a 7' fence. If everything is full length then perhaps a temp fence that's even longer would save time, altough an 8' fence is quite effective.
I'll layout all the boards on saw horses, pencil in where each board will be cut (using a cut list) essentially labling each board before it's cut. Rough cut an extra inch on each end with a hand held framing saw by eye. There's no sense cutting a good straight end when the sides aren't cleaned up.
I have a festol rail saw but it is not necessarily the best tool for the job. Unless you have the larger saw, the cut rate even with an agressive rip blade isn't great. The saw also works best if the board is perfectly flat and rarely will a rough board planed on two sides be anywhere near flat, expecially on the ends or near knots so the rail will have to be clamped to hold it in place. Since the rail won't be sitting perfectly flat the cut won't be as true as it could be.
When the festol saw works well is when the boards are finish thickness planed (not just how they come from the mill) and there is a taper of some sort in the board's shape.
As for a shooting board and circ saw, the same applies to it.
Having said that just this week I had some 16' 4/4 2p (planed two sides) rough cut mahogany boards and that's a perfect place for the festol, moving the rail along a fine chalkline.
Similar results can be had with a fine pencil line and careful freehand cutting with a circ saw and good blade, it's just much slower, requires good focus and will have some extra defects unless you're very careful. A fine fishing line (80lb spider wire) is about 1/64" wide and makes a fine chalk line, although it's probably better to simply pencil in the line using the string to mark every 4' or so and finish with a straight edge connecting the dots.
Another variation is to chalk a straight line down one side and quickly run a framing saw down the line, following it up on the table saw. With badly curved boards longer than the fence extention this is my normal course of action.
Another option is to have on hand a number of 1/4" plywood rips...I'll tack the plywood rip to the bottom of the board so the brads go into the portion that's discarded so no additional labor is required to unscrew the ply. It's still slower than just ripping to length and running through the tablesaw.
Good ripping!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.