Replies

1. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 16, 2006 05:40pm | #1

   Let me guess... you hired him based on a phone call or a conversation. Otherwise I assume there would be a list of fixtures included in that $8800 and the list would be part of the contract he brought you. If you agreed to a fixed price for the work, then everything included should be listed... somewhere.

2. 
   DanH | Oct 16, 2006 05:55pm | #2

   Generally the actual light fixtures are selected by the home owner, and so obviously the electrical contractor has little control over the costs there. Normal in this neck of the woods is for the contractor to include in his quote, absent a detailed list of fixtures, a budget for the fixtures -- generally only enough to buy the cheapest available.

   If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
3. 
   Tim | Oct 16, 2006 07:22pm | #3

   "electrical sub contractor is claiming " labor and materials" doesnt include lighting fixtures and can trim rings". They're right, unless the contract, or job quote specifically includes them.

   "about $8800 for a 1 story 1700 sq ft home"

   Is this for electrical installation, less those items mentioned above? Or the extra for those things? If its for the new service installation, not bad. If its for a bunch of Home Depot/Chinese light fixtures, very bad.

4. 
   rnsykes | Oct 17, 2006 12:39am | #4

   In my opinion, the short answer is yes.  But there may be other factors.  I built two 2100 sf homes this past year and the bill from my electrician was $4500 on the nut both times.  that included a 200 amp service, and everything except for the light fixtures (hanging, ceiling fans etc.)  The stuff that should be purchased or atleast picked out by the homeowner.  But the house also only had 6 recessed lights.  If your place has an abundance of recessed lights or other higher end stuff, there may be where your extra cost is involved.  Mine were both a basic installation.  Nothing fancy.

5. 
   Matt | Oct 17, 2006 03:04am | #5

   Assuming the work has begun, big oversight on your part...  I have never heard of the electrician supplying fixtures on a single family home.  On apartments and commercial - yes...

   Normally the electrician does supply trim for can lights, but each light carries an extra charge - my electrician charges ~$60 each including trim and bulb.

   I am currently building houses in that size range: 1500 - 2000 heated sq ft + garage and porches.  I am paying just slightly over $2 a heated sq ft.  This is a pretty tight budget job so no extras like switched wall outlets, dimmer switches, can lights, etc are included.  It includes smoke detectors, doorbell, keyless light fixtures for CS, attic, etc, 200A service & meter base.    This is from a large electrical company - I got another bid of $500 per house more from a smaller outfit...

   Really though what I am paying has little to do with you since I'm guessing you are a one time customer for this electrician, and if, for example you are in New England, you might expect to pay 2x that, or for all I know you live in Manhattan where everybody makes $100+ an hour. 

1. 
   renosteinke | Oct 18, 2006 05:11pm | #14

   Are there other factors at work? First of all, installing and buying the lights is usually NOT part of the original price. Too many variables. A "high" price might be the result of other factors. If the original price turned out to be too low - the job had unexpected complications, delays, or expenses - this add-on is an opportunity for him to make up for it. Some FEW contractors base all their business on high-priced markups on changes and additions, to cover for a low price that gets them in the door. If your relationship has been poor, or payments have been slow, or the guy has other commitments, a high price is a way of addressing those problems. You might try shopping for another electrician- but don't expect a bargain. The other guy will be leery of stepping in, not being sure as to the real reason the first guy isn't there.

1. 
   Matt | Oct 19, 2006 02:59am | #15

   I assume your post was ment for the OP....

6. 
   dutchblue | Oct 17, 2006 04:08am | #6

   As has been stated it really depends on your location and what kind of electrical service and house wiring you are talking about. 

   As a point of reference we are wiring a 1300 sq ft house this week and the bill to the GC is $14,000 and that doesn't include the 8 or 10 change orders that I have yet to present for signature.

   Without knowing the number of boxes it is impossible to give a fair answer (at least for me).

1. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 17, 2006 04:15am | #7

   Greetings from one island over. I assume that you are providing fixtures and trim for that price? I'm doing an 1800 SF house coming up and set a budget of $15K for rough-in, trim-out, fixtures, a meter base at the road with a feeder to the house, and a 200A panel. This should allow the owner to get nice fixtures. The electrician will furnish them from my list.

1. 
   dutchblue | Oct 17, 2006 04:49am | #8

   Hey Dave,  that price includes 200A service, a full on septic (mound system with all the bells and whistles...literally), all switching is 3 way which is unusual, no fixtures, and no recessed cans in this house.  We are probably the most expensive on the island but well worth it.  Typically our quotes come in $3000-$5000 more than our competition.  But this price includes a lot of hand holding for the homeowner, numerous walk thrus, and most important of all letting the customer talk and listening to what they say.

   This price (14k) on another home we recently did was for a 2200 sq ft and had about 30 cans with trims.

   We give a lot of service to our GC's callbacks within half an hour, next day quotes if needed, full coordination with PSE, etc.

    

    

   Edited 10/16/2006 9:50 pm by dutchblue

2. 
   Matt | Oct 17, 2006 02:39pm | #9

   What is the actual budget for the light fixtures?

   This whole thing is pretty interesting as we are seeing pricing to run a huge range. 

   Just curious - can you make a wild guess as to what % of a price uplift you are seeing based on your island location vs what the mainland" WA price might be?   I looked at MapQuest and your location looks kind of remote - I wouldn't even want to guess what the price of concrete might be...

   BTW - around here, we have lighting stores where a customer could be sent with a budget to spend whatever he wanted on lighting.   These stores are typically, maybe 4000 - 8000 sq ft crammed full of as many lights as you could imagine.  They have these sales ladies there who help pick out the stuff and due to the high sales volume they are great at it since they know what is in style, what's vailable in what price ranges, what works well in what type of areas, etc, etc.  Typically a builder will work with the lighting store to put together a base package within the budget, and then the end customer makes changes as they see fit and are willing to pay for.  The electrician's involvement in this process is limited to installing what is delivered to the house.  Putting the electrician in the loop of the light fixture acquisition process would undoubtedly result in extra expense.

1. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 17, 2006 05:37pm | #10

   Matt, yeah, I wish I could get work done for some of the prices I see quoted by others here.

   Without consulting an electrician I allowed $9000 for all labor and other parts. $6000 for fixtures and trim including any cans. Now Dutch has reminded me that I have the septic plan and it has a pump. Add $. The water purveyor is going to require a 1000-gallon tank for holding potable water onsite, which will probably require another pump. Add $. Add to the dirt budget too.

   Concrete is about $150/yard for 6-sack. Sand and gravel either come daily on the car ferry, or are barged into the harbor and a truck shuttle run up to the plant. $$$$$$$$$!

1. 
   Matt | Oct 18, 2006 04:35am | #11

   A $6 grand lighting budget for an 1800 sq ft house is quite significant.  Roughy 2x what I would consider pretty delux.  And, I gotta assume that you are not paying that much of a premium on lights - I would guess it couldn't be more than 10% to ship small items like that, especially since for real upper end stuff it all has to be ordered pretty much not matter where you live.  Then, you might have to add another 15% for the electrician'smarkup...

2. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 18, 2006 05:22am | #12

   I assume that fixtures will come from high-end boutique-type places that deal in pricey stuff with quality metal patinas and fancy hand-blown glass. So, I allowed for 6 exterior fixtures at $200 each, 14 surface-mounted interior fixtures at $250 each, 20 cans with trim at $35 each, and a total of $750 for plugs, switches, and trim. That's an easy $6000.

   Believe me, in custom work the owner could easily go shopping and come back with fixtures that run $500-1000 each. Or maybe a $2500 chandelier. I've had a couple of jobs with imported antique fixtures from Europe. It's also possible that they'll go frugal and get a bunch of stuff from the orange box, although there's plenty of $250 stuff there too.

   I've asked the owner to go shopping and get an idea of what they want to spend on lighting. Before we go to contract I'll revise the budget based on their input (same goes for plumbing fixtures, flooring, tile, counter, cabinets, windows, etc.)

   But, yeah, $6000 is the starting point. I need to preserve my reputation as a highballer, and frankly I want them to buy some wicked stuff, because it'll look good!

7. 
   IdahoDon | Oct 18, 2006 05:35am | #13

   The number seems high or low.  As others have said it takes more details.

   We put in a great deal of cans, dimmers, lighting for cabinets and built-ins, door switches and whatnot so prices per square foot can be quite high.

    

   Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.