I have an older bathroom, ( 1965) that is getting a remodel. The existing romex is 2-wire. I want to tie into that and feed a fart fan, light switch and a GFI plug.
What do I do with the ground on the new romex with a ground wire. One guy told me to coneect the Nuetral, (white) with the ground . Is this true. I am using all plastic boxes. Is 14 gauge ok?
Replies
No, leave the ground on the GFCI outlet unconnected. If the fan or light is in a location where someone might touch it while in the shower then it should be downstream of the GFCI, otherwise not.
Leave the ground disconnected. Put fan & light downstream of GFI.I'd rather you ran a new home-run to feed this stuff. Not possible?Brooks
disconected ground...
don't think so...
put in a home run...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
If you don't have a proper ground for a GFCI, the "correct" thing to do is to leave it disconnected. This may hamper the self-test feature of the GFCI, but otherwise does not affect its function.(If it were me personally, and I couldn't pull a new cable, I'd likely tie the ground to the cold water pipe, if it was all copper and tested good. But that's not really "legal", even though it's probably safer than leaving things ungrounded.)Re another post, I'd only put the light/fan downstream of the GFCI if there was a believable scenario for accidentally touching same while in shower. The fan isn't really the issue, but its good to avoid dousing the light if the GFCI trips.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
that puts the switch down stream that's used by wet hands and that hand connected to the person standing in water...
the element of risk is there..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Probably 99% of the bathroom light/fan switches in the country are not on GFCIs.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
so get out there and fix it..
think ya can be done by beerthirty..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"that puts the switch down stream that's used by wet hands and that hand connected to the person standing in water...the element of risk is there.."Exactly. That is why you want it downstream of the GFCI. If there is any failure of the switch then the GFCI is there to offer protection.
Ok..I took a fixture box where the old meets the new, (old is no ground, new is with ground). I made the connections inside the box for future inspection and I will put a cover over it and paint it the same color as the ceilng.
From my source, (the fixture box where they are joined) I went straight to the gfi. From the GFI I went to the fart fan switch from there I went to the light switch. AM I ok?
I have never heard so many different suggestions from people I have talked to in person. The problem I have now is that in the inspection box, I have a ground wire from the new romex which has no home. So none of my switches are grounded. What do I do with this ground wire? Should I connect it to the old nuetral?
ABSOLUTLEY LEAVE THE GROUND UNCONNECTED. If not a fault could make the equipment hot.What you have done is as safe as it can be made without a ground.However, as I said it does not meet code and an inspector may or may not allow it as an exception.
thanks everyone! Over the years I have become familiar with Electricity but as you can tell there is alot to learn. I am a carpenter by trade and from now On I think I will sub out any electrical work like this.
DO NOT CONNECT it to the nuetral...
the unconnected ground is not likely to fly with the inspector either..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ummmmmmmmmmmm...
seems I didn't read well enough......
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I agree with Brooks. You have to get a ground wire in there somehow. But what I don't understand is the date. I'm surprised you'd find non-grounded Romex in something built in 1965.
Romex no ground !!! I had the same question you did but I did run into the same situation once. No-nothing homeowner wired his house and didn't know how to do it properly so he just cut the ground wire off very short and ran only the hot and white neutral wires.
Romex (non-metallic sheathed cable) of one type or another for a long time. At least since the early 50's, but I think much longer. Back in the 30's or 40's.Now I am not sure when wiring with EGC's (equipment grounding conductor) first commonly was required. But I believe that it was the late 60's or early 70's.So it is not uncommon to see wiring from the 60's without a ground.Also note that for a period of time (I am guessing early 60's) there was romex with a #16 ground wire (it might even be #18. It seem very small). I only ran into it once.As to the orginal quesiton.It seems that it can't be done without runing a new circuit or separate EGC wire.Now the code does allow an ungrounded receptacle to be replaced with a GFCI without a grounding type. And it does allow RECEPTACLES to be replaced with grounding type ones if they are protected by upstream receptacle.But that only covers receptacels and does not cover extending circuits.250-130 covers extending circuits without an EGC and it requires an grounding wire back to some point that connects to the ground electrode system. Most commonly to the ground bus on the panel or to a junction box that has an EGC that runs back to the panel.Also current codes require a dedicate 20 amp circuit. Either dedicated to the bathroom (receptacle, lights and fan) or decicated to the receptacles in one or more bathrooms.That said there is a judgement call with the inspector about other options. If the circuit is not other wise heavely loaded and it is very, very difficult to run a new circuit then they MIGHT allow you to extend the circuit using the load side of a GFCI.
3-prong outlets were just becoming common in the late 60s. Some earlier installations had grounded romex even though they only had 2-prong outlets, but some didn't. (And where they did have grounded romex one often finds the ground wire cut off flush with the jacket, or grounds not tied together in many boxes.)
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Feed it from a GFCI breaker, or from a downstream GFCI outlet.....they do no require a ground to work....tho they have to be labeled as lacking a ground (little stick on strips come with the GFCI for that.....)