I haven’t seen anyone ever post any pics of an electric panel fire. I just did an emergency job the other day to replace one and took pictures of it. Clearly the home was within minutes of catching ablaze.
The situation here was this. This panel was located on the first floor and a 2 floor 2 unit rental property. There was a sewer clog in the CI pipe down in the basement that serviced the upper 2nd floor unit. The blockage caused dirty water to backup all the way in the sewer line and overflowed out of the washer standpipe and flooded the floor. Guess what was below the washer on the 2nd floor? Yep, this 100A Federal Pacific panel. The Landlord was unable to unclog the drain (he used a professional contractor who was unable to open it and needed to come back the following morning with a powerflusher to blast the clog open). Landlord goes home unaware the clog was a full blockage of the sewer line. At 4am the second floor tenant smelled something burning. Wife tells husband to go check. Husband walked right past the electric panel on the first floor to get to the basement (this panel is in front of the basement door) but didn’t notice the panel caught fire. Husband goes into basement, smells nothing, come back up steps and facing him is this panel with smoke billowing out of it with the cover began to char black. 911 was called and FD put out the fire. I get a 5am call to change out the panel later that morning. Now this is the very first panel fire I’ve ever seen so I was quite amazed at the damage. When I took the cabinet off and saw the back wall charred I was amazed the structure didn’t catch fire as yet. The guts of the FP panels main breaker were essentially non existent any more being reduced to mere fragments and ash. The top 4 breakers were a molted mass. Only the branch circuit wires near the main breaker were unsalvageable. All the other wiring was salvagable, I merely wiped off each wire, and spliced the melted ones. I replaced it with a SQ D QO 100A panel.
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FP panels were known for that sort of thing. Nice pics.
Yeah I know...they lost their UL rating a long time ago. I didn't think water would ever do that, though, to a panel, make it catch fire that is. I was told it's due to the impurities in the water caused it to start arcing inside until it overheated. Thanks for the "nice pics."If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
I doubt many panels other than FP would catch fire from sewage. That was one of their weak points, breakers that did not release. Possibly though the sewage caused some type of corrosion to main lugs or the buss that caused the fire. There may have not been an actual overload.
I worked for an electrical contractor in the 70's and I remember taking out used breakers from old pushmatic FP panels for reuse. Maybe they were already obsolete at the time, but I think it was later.
In defense of FPE ....
NO panel will survive flooding without serious damage. Trip the breaker? What breaker? You've got the main feed in there! Moreover, there's a lot of energy in even 20 amps of 120 ... folks weld with that all the time. The fault may have been well under the rating of the breaker.
Contrary to internet rumor, FPE NEVER lost it's UL listing. That's straight from UL. Indeed, the same breakers continue to be listed, and sold, as "Federal pioneer" in Canada.
Failure to trip? Irrelevant to this event ..... In any case, the data only involved a few models of two-pole breakers; the single pole breakers performed as expected.
Had a friend who rented part of a house where the entire yard flooded once in a while. Panel was in the completely filled basement. Lights and outlets still worked. I was always amazed by that.Bear
Ok, so UL never caught up to them, BUT FP is cr@p! no doubt about it! Give me anything but FP!
There's the point: UL tests 'for the public safety.' They do not make any statement about quality, efficiency, performance, or even good looks. It's kind of like cars .... Yugo and BMW both had to meet exactly the same DOT standards - but no one would ever confuse the two.
It's perfectly allright to dislike FPE ..... but whatever deficiencies you see with FPE, it's pretty clear they had nothing to do with this accident.
MMMM melted plastic and sewage. What a wonderful smell you discovered
hahaha. Actualy it smelled perfectly electrical, although the area I was working in had a shelf under the panel that I had to lean over which was sopping wet with sewer water as was the floor I was standing on. I wonder if they can bottle that smell like they did the new car smell.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
4.16kv-480v transformer feed to load center. One adjacent to another. Big steam leak in turbine building. This one flashed over and blew up as I was running by it on my way out of there. The second one sitting right next to it blew up as I entered the control room a few minutes later. The cause was 250,000 gal of water released from the leak and all the firewater heads that blew due to the heat.
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4160 leads ...
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"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
They were lucky.
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carpenter in transition
Edited 12/30/2007 9:51 am ET by timkline
Edited 12/30/2007 9:52 am ET by timkline
Edited 12/30/2007 9:52 am ET by timkline
Yeehaw, those are some nice pics. Although I'm sorry for the damage. Any idea what caused this fire and the Make of the panel?If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
i think it was improper wiring at the panel.
the house was only a few months old, this happened in 2003
i think the owner was home when it started, luckily. the house is in a somewhat remote spot and could have burned to the ground.
no, i don't remember the panel brand, but i don't think it was an issue. it was my understanding that it was a workmanship issue.
we repaired the house after the damage.
carpenter in transition
1. Was it even safe to be in there?
2. good thing the tank didn't rupture and to say the least go boom
It takes studs to build a house
Great pics.Peace out.
In oher words bump :)
"I'd rather be a hammer than a nail"
ah so. You be learnin' fast there Challie!Peace out.
thanx,
i just looked at my files. 42,500 photos taken in the last 6 years.
let me know if you need any other pix
carpenter in transition
Wow, thanks for sharing. Your post would be a lot easier to read if you hit enter about every five lines or so.
I guess the ozone from all the arcing overcame the sewage. Sort of a gross "Rock, paper, scissors" (:-)
Just this afternoon I finished wiring a smoke detector circuit in my house. Part of a bigger project replacing all the knob & tube and old Pushmatic in the older half of the house.
Your post made me glad that circuit is up and running and some incentive to keep moving on the rest.
Wise decision to replace all the K&T and installing the smoke hound. BTW there was no SD in this house.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Heres one we did. It took us a week with three guys to gut and reframe it.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07