Bought two new Leviton push button fan timers for our bathrooms and installed the first one, the fan just hums. Checked the ground, neutral and voltage going in, all ok. The voltage going out is only 83V. I installed the other timer and same thing. These are the 5 Amp ones with three wires: one is hot, another is load and the last is ground. Read and reread the instructions to see if I missed anything. Doesn’t make any difference what button is pushed, same results. It runs through a GFI outlet first.
Yesterday I couldn’t even spell plumber, today I are one.
Replies
Two busted ones in a row seems unlikely, but I've seen lots of strange things in electricity...
What exactly do you mean when you say "The voltage going out is only 83V. "???
If you mean that only 83vac is applied to the fan, then the problem is not with the fan.
"Checked the ground, neutral and voltage going in, all ok. The voltage going out is only 83V. "
How did you check the ground "going in"
how did you check the neutral "going in"
What does "going in" mean?
Neutral, ground, and line voltage are "applied" cuz they don't "go" anywhere. Current (measrured in amps') goes but if you have less currant coming out of a load than you have going in, Khirkoff and many others will be astounded.
Try this: turn off the breaker feeding the fan. If it is fed from a subpanel, deenergize the sub.
Check for voltage at the fan switch from hot (black wire) the the neutral (white wire). If a voltage is present, turn off the correct breaker. If no volts are present across any two wires at the switch (green to white - green to black - black to white) you're ok to proceed.
remove the switch from the wires and check for the resistance across the neutral and ground. it should be very close to zero ohms ( =< 3 ohms)
If this is good, temporarily wire an outlet in place of the fan and reconnect the switch into the circuit. Recheck the neutral ground resistance at the temp outlet.
If this is good, reenergize the circuit and plug in a 100watt lamp in the temp outlet. with the fan switch turned on and the lamp turned off, measure the volts three ways at the outlet.
If you have 110vac +- 10% from black to white and from black to green, turn the lamp on and recheck the volts three ways.
repost back here for more help/info at this stage.
Good luck
SamT
"Law reflects, but in no sense determines the moral worth of a society.... The better the society, the less law there will be. In Heaven, there will be no law, and the lion will lie down with the lamb.... The worse the society, the more law there will be. In Hell, there will be nothing but law, and due process will be meticulously observed."
Grant Gilmore, The Ages of American Law (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1977), pp. 110-111.
From 32866.117
Electrical engineer, right?
Going in = LINE
Going out = LOAD
Thanks anyways, problem solved.
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ETN2 in the Navy. Over 4000 hours classroom instruction. instructor for 21 year. 8 years in the field. 6 as top dog.
Now I is a vast carpenter / halfvast plumber / halfvast sparky.
SamT
"Law reflects, but in no sense determines the moral worth of a society.... The better the society, the less law there will be. In Heaven, there will be no law, and the lion will lie down with the lamb.... The worse the society, the more law there will be. In Hell, there will be nothing but law, and due process will be meticulously observed."
Grant Gilmore, The Ages of American Law (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1977), pp. 110-111.From 32866.117
Checking the timer switch for continuity ( as first explained by Sam T) is not a bad idea .... turn off your power and check for continuity...if continuity is ok, then switch is OK...which points to a problem as to how you wired up the switch. But much more info is needed by you before anyone can figure out your problem.
For example......just how did you wire up the timer? Did you get your feed wire from the GFCI's "load" side or did you pigtail off the "line" side? Where on the timer did you attach the hot feed wire to... the timer's "line" or to the "load"?
Did you extend a neutral wire from the GFCI directly to the fan fixture? How did you connect the timer to the fan's black wire?
One more thing,Is your fan rated for a 5 amp timer switch? Did you buy the correct switch rated for your particular fan?
I called Leviton and found out that I was sold the wrong timer for a fan. Even though on the box it says for lighting, attic fans, exhaust fans, heat lamps, whirlpools, etc.... There is no neutral wire on the control I have.
Thanks for your time.
Glad to hear you found the problem.
as for " there is no neutral wire on the control I have"
I believe you. And, there most likely will not be a neutral wire on your new timer switch that you go out and buy either.
Normally in this situation, the black (hot) feed wire is linked to the timer's "line" wire. The "load" wire from the timer then proceeds to the fan (fixture). The neutral wire (paired with the original black feed wire), should continue unbroken all the way to the fan ( fixture). The ground wires are simply combined and attached like any normal grounding.
But hey, whadda I know...just read your attached instructions from Leviton...what ever they say, goes.
Hope your new timer works OK.
Davo
That's the way it said to wire it too. But apparently this switch won't work on a motor without a neutral. I get the idea, but can't explain it!
VtMike,,
one wire dimmer/controlers are just rheostats (variable resisters) and two wire jobs are transistor/electronic and run cooler and more effeciently juice wise.
In a simplified example...100vac, 100 watt load, you have 1 amp current acrosss 1 ohm. Add a rheostat set for 1 ohm. You now have 100vac, 1/2 amp, 50 watts across 2 ohms. But, the load is only getting 25 watts of the total, 50vac x 1/2 amp = 25 watts. the other 25 watts is developed across the dimmer.
An electronic dimmer/controller turns off the current flow thousands of times per cycle. at the same 25watt load as above, the current is turned off for %72 (simple numbers now) of the time. since the dimmer is "using" the current only during switching time (the time it takes to go from full on to fully off or vice versa) but other wise acts as a closed or open switch, it is only developing 3 watts of heat/load.
Hope this helps your understanding and not vice versa,
SamT
"Law reflects, but in no sense determines the moral worth of a society.... The better the society, the less law there will be. In Heaven, there will be no law, and the lion will lie down with the lamb.... The worse the society, the more law there will be. In Hell, there will be nothing but law, and due process will be meticulously observed."
Grant Gilmore, The Ages of American Law (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1977), pp. 110-111.From 32866.117
"one wire dimmer/controlers are just rheostats (variable resisters) and two wire jobs are transistor/electronic and run cooler and more effeciently juice wise."
ONE WIRE DIMMER. The only "one wire" dimmer that I know of is a bare piece of wire that you can drop across the power connections to a light and it will dim it. Cheap and works well, the problem is that it is all or nothing and you have to go back to the breaker pannel to restore it to the full on mode.
And reheostats have not been used for dimming since hoop skirts.
"An electronic dimmer/controller turns off the current flow thousands of times per cycle."
Try, 120 time a second unless you are in Europe and it is 100 times a second.
The common electronic dimmer uses a Triac as the controlling device. Once it is triggered it stays on until the end of half sinewave and it turns off until triggered again.
They only need 2 wires, just like a rehostat for the basic functions.
Now ones that can work in a 3 way mode or communicate with other devices (X-10) need a neutral and/or a signal wire.
But what he is installing is not a dimmer or variable speed control, but rather a switch that controls lights and at the same time a fan, but with a programable delay off time for the fan.
I don't know if the light part of the circuit is hard wired through the switch or electronic the motor is probably controlled by a triac, but it might be a relay. In any case there are electronics in it to do the timing. And I would not be surprised to see such a device designed require the neutral.
Thanks for clearing that up. I thought I was missing something there on his post when he mentioned dimmers. I'm using a timer. The switch they sent me is a timer (push button type) for lights. Seems there would be a difference, but don't try to explain it to me.
Bill, you're right, I spaced the timer/dimmer part. And your are right about the comman triac dimmers that only turn on when the applied vac reaches a threshold voltage then turn off ats vac crosses 0 volts.
I was thinking of the rather more rare milspec reactive load controlloers. Sorry about spreading my confusion, VtMike.
Now I'm going to shut my mouth before my other foot winds up in there.
SamT
"Law reflects, but in no sense determines the moral worth of a society.... The better the society, the less law there will be. In Heaven, there will be no law, and the lion will lie down with the lamb.... The worse the society, the more law there will be. In Hell, there will be nothing but law, and due process will be meticulously observed."
Grant Gilmore, The Ages of American Law (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1977), pp. 110-111.From 32866.117
Edited 7/30/2003 2:05:23 PM ET by SamT