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I like to use electrogalv finish nails simply because there’s no oil coat on them to blacken things. I know, I know, just fill your nail bag with sawdust to clean your nails. It works. I do it, but eg nails are just a tiny bit easier. There’s no other advantage to them that I know of.
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Paslode galv. nails are generally only available electrogalvanized ... i think there are some hot-dip ones out there somewhere. Anyway, they corrode almost as fast as as the plain old iron! What's the point in using them at all? Are they OK for roofing, where they are almost completely protected (shingles)?
*It's cheaper to produce electrogalvanized ones. It shouldn't make a difference if you're using asphalt shingles. Even if they corrode you won't see them. I went to a tool rental place when I ordered a box of 1" hot galvanized roofing coil nails. Contractors in my area don't use them because they are more expensive (almost 2x). They are not commonly available because the demand is not as high. I still prefer the hot galvanized.Gaby
*What I havei readis that the hot dipped should be used in roofing. This is because the hot dipped are rough and less likely to work themselves back out.It makes sense to me, but I could be wrong...Rich Beckman
*Rich. It is claimed that hot-dipped galvanized nails hold better because the rough zinc deposits act like barbs. It is argued that fish hooks and porcupine quills are barbed, and painfully difficult to from flesh; therefore, a barbed nail will hold better in wood than a common bright (smooth shank) nail. This incorrect reasoning assumes that wood and flesh are identical substances, rather than two differenc materials. Alas, the roughness decreases the nail's withdrawl resistance. Why? Because the zinc coating increases the hole, size.The surface roughness actually decreases the tight contact between the nail shank and the surrounding wood. GeneL.
*Hi Gene:Your theory would suggest that ring-shank nails should be easier to remove than smooth-shank nails, since the contact with the wood is less uniform. Do you have a primary reference for your view?
*You cant get much closer to a barbed nail than the broken wires holding the coils together.. that must give some holding power? Maybe they should start `coating` the roofing nails like the framing ones?
*a ring shank nail has higher initial resistance to withdrawal, but once it starts to give way it fails catastrophically due to the larger hole & torn wood fibers, and lack of friction to keep it held in. You wouldn't want to live in a house framed with ring shanks!
*msteinkampf. Good morning. Given two nails of the same size and diameter, and driven into wood with the same density, the nails with annular rings--deformations--has 40 percent more withdrawl resistance than the nail with the smooth shank. My maion source of data on nails comes from the research conducted by E. George Stern, Director of the Wood Research Laboratory at Virginia Poly Technic Institute. Stern may be either dead or retired. However, you can contact the university and ask for research papers. You could also call Maze Nail company (800-435-5949) and ask their engineering department for answers to your questions, or for copies of research papers. Another source is the Forest Products Research Society, Madison, Wisconsin. They puiblish research papers and booklets and Proceedings on Mechanical Fasteners for wood. I don't have a phone number for them, but you might try the Forest Products Laboratory @ (608) 231-9365. They might have a web page but I am not certain.GeneL.
*....tread where angels fear to......Gene et all...I would agree that on a simple test of withdrawl and catastrophic failure , the HOT dipped might fail befor the common bright....however, in the real world of Coastal construction, te biggest enemy of fastener failure is RUST..and on roofs the first thing to go is the fastener, if it is a salt air atmosphere..many roofs I've been on ...and many shingles trying to pop for various repairs...if the ROOFING nail is bright or plated, the head will seperate from the shank..that's asphalt shingles....the hot dipped nail will still be there in its same condition a hundred years from now....pull 'em all the timeon cedar roofs I've stripped some where the shingles were blowing off , investigated and found that the shanks had rusted right thru, this on a 15 year old roof..We banned bright nails from our job years ago...if there's a bright nail on the job someone always gets it and uses it in an inappropraite place...next thing you know you have a big rust stain bleeding thru the paint or running down the siding....ALL of our exterior and interior HAND nails are HDG....In subflooring ALL of the sheet vinyl specs call for ring shank nails to nail off the underlayment....
*My bookworm understanding is that ring shanks should NEVER be used in a shear application -- that's where you get the big holes. They are for withdrawal resistance only. So for sheathing you use... ?
*....sorry, WORK interrupted my BT...the noive....anyhow, sheathing ,HAND NAILS, always HDG, 6d or 8d commonTrim, if its wood, 8d HDG COMMON, set , primed and puttied ..if its composite, it'll be a SS nail, probably flush.which brings s to GUN NAILS for FRAMING : electro galv, or MAYBE some brights, if we 've got some lying aroundSIDING & TRIM: SS, coil ROOFING: Paslode galvanized coil.Red cedar: SSWhite cedar: galv. except all exposed nails are 3 1/2 d HDG "shingle nail"So, basically, we always use the best compromise we can come come with, depending on what the nail or screw has to accomplish. We just keep in mind how dumb we're gonna look if we charge someone thousands of dollars for some exterior work, only to have rust stains show up on the finish...Here's the life lesson I got...my 1st carpenter boss, been in business about 30 years, sent his crew over to install Clear All Heart Vertical Grain Clapboard, purchased by the OWNER, they neatly nailed it up with the nails recommended to the Owner by the lumber yard and purchased by the Owner...and two weeks later there were rust stains running down every stud....the nails were electro galv. clapboard nails..my boss wound up not charging for the labor, AND paying to have the clapboards painted...all for the sake of $25 worth of nails..
*Seems to me that your boss should have made the Owner assume the cost.
*....Pete...my boss thot so too...but the Owner's lawyer thot otherwise...so to avoid litigation ..the lumberyard & my boss split the cost....
*Yep, sounds like the Owner set himself up by picking the materials. But you failed to FORCE him to use stainless, now, didn't you?I still don't understand what electroplated nails are for -- their anticorrosion treatment is so slight, why bother?
*...Oh... you wanted an answer to your Original Question....half assed answer to what's between no corrosion resistance (bright) and best ya can cha got...SS or Hot Dipped...some value , and some are better than others, actually used some "Cadmium plated " stuff that was pretty good
*I like to use electrogalv finish nails simply because there's no oil coat on them to blacken things. I know, I know, just fill your nail bag with sawdust to clean your nails. It works. I do it, but eg nails are just a tiny bit easier. There's no other advantage to them that I know of.
*I'm pretty much in line with Mike's philsophy on the hot dip for roofing. HD (not the orange box HD) is the only way to go, though we still hand nail on the roof.There was a "historical" job, though, where staining was desired. The claps were nailed with cut nails. The intent was to have them stain the siding, just like the original house. I typically use SS on all exterior trim and siding.
*Cool, Ron came up with a reason. (You know, I wondered where all that black sh*t was coming from -- residual from the forming process, i guess?) I know EG are the standard for roofing around here ... standard roofing, that is, not the elite job folks here seem to do. HDG are MUCH harder to find collated. Oh yeah, EG are usually prettier when new, too -- nice and shiny. :) Seems to me the nail-producing folks, esp. Paslode, should be held liable for even implying that EG is rust-resistant -- a strip I left out in one rainfall started to rust immediately, the reason for my querulous post...
*Tom Herman. You are correct. however, i would not characterize the reduction of withdrawal resistance as catastrophic. Are you ignoring the lessening of withdrawal resistance of plain shank nails.? Mike Smith. I have no quarrel with you and the coastal environment. Let's hope that in driving the HD nails we don't chip the zinc. Are you familiar a company in Rhode Island called Lixie? They made or use to make hammer caps thar fit over the hammer head. This prevented the hanner from chiping the zinc coating. GeneL
*A 4 or 5-ply cover made from duct tape works well, too.Duct Tape...the official building material of the new millenium...
*I'm confused now. When I refered to electrogalvanized in my earlier post I was talking about the yellowish type which is actually a cadmium plate like the ones Mike described. I see now that you meant the bright finish galvanized. I have never seen a roofing nail that is a bright finish. In my area they always use "cadmium plated" coil nails regardless of wether it's a standard or high end job (don't ask!). It's an "off the shelf" type item that's readily available anywhere. They work fine for ashpalt shingles. Try calling Paslode and asking them. It comes in a box of 7200 and goes for about $42.00 CDN.Gaby
*Yes, I did mean zinc (bright silver). Most all EG nails seem to be zinc. Zinc is also what they use for hot-dip, but the result is rough and dark gray. (EG is the process used to make plated silverware and such; it provides very even, smooth coating.) Fasteners may also be MECHANICALLY galv.; this is usually true of galv. screws. So we have EG, HDG, MG, and maybe CdEG (cadmium EG).Now I'm really confused -- the Paslode roofing nails claim to offer "a high-quality zinc coating-not a thin yellow coating like other roofing nails" that offers "up to seven times thicker anti-rust coating than other nails." They are hot-dip galvanized. The only competitive brands identified are Brand A, B, C, D (like having four pseudonyms is more persuasive than just one "Brand X"?).http://www.paslode.com/products/fasteners_catalog/rooferschoice.htmlBoy, there must be a good article in here somewhere. I'd esp. like to see an informal corrosion test -- stick a bunch of nails in a board and spray it with salt water every day...Whatever. There is no controversy that HDG is the best, short of SS ... i still don't see the beenfit of EG.