My friend picked up a tool that uses 220 volt 2.5 amp but it is at 50hz instead of 60 hz. Another friend has had the same tool for 3 years and runs it and it has had no ill effects. Will it last?? Will the motors rpms be effected? It is an induction motor. I changed the plug to an american 220 and the machine does work but???????
MikeD
Replies
CORRECTED.
It will run at 6/5 speed.
I also got the problem with magnetic saturation backwards. It is a potential problem going from 60 to 50 hz systems. But I will leave this for lurkers.
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There is also a problem with magnetic saturation depending on how "tightly" it was designed and how hard you load it. Also what you line voltage is and what it was designed for.
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The US standard is 240. I am not sure what the European is NOW (or what this motor is speced at, look at the label). I know that there was some nominal differences between the conuntries and with the EU they picked an average and increaed the tolerance on the allowed voltage. Range.
Check the motor temp from time to time.
But it should be OK.
Edited 10/2/2006 4:12 pm by BillHartmann
thanks
MikeD
If it's designed to run on 50hz, and you run it on 60hz, then it is going to run quicker, It will try to run at 6/5 its normal speed
John
You are right.I got the spped that backwards. Along with the problem with magnetic saturation. More of a heat problem going from 60 to 50.
European is 240 volts per leg....
ya need a center tap transformer
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"European is 240 volts per leg...."No, European single phase service is single eneded. The transformer secondary is 240 volts, not center tapped. And the one leg is grounded.
Bill I lived there for 7 years... W Germany...
240/GRN/240 - 50HZ... 3 wire hook up..
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Yes, 3 wires.Hot, Neutral, EGC.Just like the US 120 except that it is 220-240*.Functionaly it is the same as a 240 circuit in the US, ecept that the system is earth on one leg rather than a transformer centertap.* http://users.metro2000.net/~purwinc/seec2_2.htm"2.2.1 European Voltage HarmonisationThe nominal European voltage is now 230V 50 Hz (formerly 240V in UK, 220V in the rest of Europe) but this does not mean there has been a real change in the supply.Instead, the new "harmonised voltage limits" in Europe are now:
230V -10% +6% (i.e. 207.0 V-243.8 V)in most of Europe (the former 220V nominal countries), and
230V -6% +10% (i.e. 216.2 V - 253.0 V)
in UK (former 240V nominal)This is really a fudge and means there is no real change of supply voltage, only a change in the "label", with no incentive for electricity supply companies to actually change the supply voltage.To cope with both sets of limits an equipment will therefore need to cover 230V +/-10% i.e. 207-253V. This will actually become the official limit for the whole of the EU in 2003.2.2.2 North AmericaANSI C84.1 "Electric Power Systems and Equipment - Voltage Ratings (60 Hz) sets the preferred nominal voltage at 120V and allows a range of 114 - 126V (240V nominal, range 228 - 252V). Equivalent Canadian spec is CAN3-C235.Voltage at a 120 volt nominal single phase receptacle should be 110 to 125V under normal conditions.However, the California Public Utilities Commission has specified that the service voltage shall be kept in the range 114-120V, with some exceptions. This was done because some studies showed a reduction in energy consumption at the lower voltages."
I´ve lived here in Europe for all my life.
We have three phases, let´s call them L1, L2, L3, Neutral and Ground. The neutral has the same potential as ground. The voltage (effective) between any phase and ground (or neutral) is 230 V/50 Hz. The voltage between two phases (L1-L2, L1-L3, L2-L3) is 400 V/50 Hz.
A three phase asynchronous motor, made for running at 50 Hz, can usually be run at up to 100 Hz, and no lower than 25 Hz. If the motor is to be run at a frequency lower than 25 Hz, it is wise to have a separate electric cooling fan.
A friend in the Netherlands reports having 230 Volt delta connected three phase, just as you do. Branch circuits there are typically 16 Amps. But there's no reason that couldn't coexist with 230/460 center tap single phase, even in the same city. Appliances and tools would all work just the same, it's only the breaker panels that would need to have busses for three legs.
Here in LA, industrial and business customers can get three phase, but the DWP refuses to sell it to residential users. That's unfortunate for home shops, since a lot of machines come with three phase motors, and the single phase replacements are more expensive.
-- J.S.
Here's a list of standard voltages for countries around the world: http://www.voltagevalet.com/country/all.html#zeta The country I find interesting is Japan...100 volts, and one half of the country is at 50hz and the other half is at 60hz. I suppose nowadays they all have digital clocks over there, but in the old days when clocks had hands, it must have made things interesting for people who moved from one part of the country to the other.
Actually digital clocks that get power from the mains it is just as important it is analog clocks that get power from the mains.The clock is just bascially just a counter, that counts the AC cycles.I designed a product that had a clock function. Tried to have it detect if it operated on 50 or 60 hz, but a combination of noise and cheap source for the microproecessor cause some false readings.So we went back to a manufacturing jump that selected the mode.
That's interesting. I've never spent much time looking inside my alarm clock, but I figured they all used crystals to keep track of the time these days.
Crystal can drift too much.Lot cheaper to count zero crossing. At least in developed counties.In the US the frequency is tracked to the national time standards.When I was in school one of my instructors told me that at Purdue University that 1/2 of the campus was on commercial power and they had a power plant fof the other 1/2.In the power plant they had a clock (analog at the time) on each power. Sunday morning they would speed up or slow down the power plant to get the clock to match the commercial power.
Los Angeles used to have a mix of 50 Hz and 60 Hz. (But of course they called it cycles per second back then). In 1937, they changed over to all 60, and had a replacement/retrofit program for people who had 50 Hz. clocks.
It's a shame we didn't go all 50, like the rest of the world. That's why we have 60 Hz NTSC television, while everybody else except Japan, Burma, and parts of Latin America, all have 50 Hz PAL/SECAM. Same damn thing is giving us grief with the HDTV transition.
-- J.S.
As of at least the early 70's at least one place in Canada had some 25hz.
Edited 10/4/2006 5:59 pm by BillHartmann
New York City subways also used to use some 25 Hz.
-- J.S.
I was on a ship last year, built in Turkey, that was 380VAC/50hz and we layed up in Port Canaveral, on shore power, which was 60hz. All the motors on the ship spun fast, but we had no problem, except with the diesel oil purifier.
it was a mechanical problem, though, it just wouldn't work spinning that fast. So if we needed to run it, we would have to disconnect shore power and go on ship's power for the duration.
Otherwise, no problem whatsover, until the night that lightning struck the shore power box, blew it up, and blacked us out. We didn't have any air in the air bottles, so we had to run the diesel powered air compressor to get 15 bar of starting air to get a generator going. What a freak event.
Marine Engineer
Probably the tool will work fine but may have a hair less power and a slightly increased tendency to overheat.
However, note that many units labeled 50 cycles are likely in fact 50/60 cycle units and able to provide full function across that frequency range. If anything is different in the 50 cycle unit it's probably the gearing.