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Dear Mark and Gabe,
The size of room was not mentioned and and it would be kindda difficult to give an estimate cost. The finishes is also important in determining the final cost. I’d say for a decent room built from timber in with a floor area of 100 sq ft. would come up to $10,000, without all the frills. Give and take $3,000 will be a safe bet.
I built my own loft for next to nothing and it is from scrap lumbers from crates and pellets which people want to discard. The area is approximately 64 sq ft. and also a 30inches wide timber staircase for the access.
Goodluck.
Chan
Replies
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Like most new development houses, ours comes with a two-story family room, which we don't need or want. To put a bedroom over the family room (thus making the family room one story), the developer wants another $23,000+. Strikes me as outrageous. Aren't they just adding some floor joists between two existing load-bearing walls and coverning the structure with sheathing and drywall, more or less? How much would it cost to hire a contractor to do it after the house is built? Any ideas?
*Hi Mark,About $23,000 plus.Why did you buy this place, if you didn't like the layout? Was it $24,000 cheaper than the one you liked the layout in?Besides, can't price what I can't see.Gabe
*I would guess 2 things:First, they may have to beef up the floor system below, if it's not designed to support the weight of another floor above. Second,I think they mark up "extras" in tract homes quite a bit, as this is one of their primary profit sources.
*Well, I was about to point out how much remodeling labor cost but realized the house hadn't been built yet. The one problem you are raising for the developer is you're asking for custom work which defeats the cost-saving efficiency of building a cookie-cutter development. i wouldn't recommend adding the room later unless the structural issues are as simple as you suppose. But be forewarned that a smallish job like that will cost more because, again, it is less efficient for builders to do custom jobs.$23k does sound awful high. And Ron is right, these sorts of houses are commodities like cars -- they compete on base price and profit on extras or service contracts. Do the world a favor, buy an existing home with "character" and breathe some life into it with that $23k.
*Mr. Roderick,An educated man you are, a Philly barrister, I see. I think you should be smart enough to answer your own question.....or hire an engineer to lead you to some peace of mind?Let's see.....@ $180.00 an hour????...100 additional manhours.....that's just about $18,000...right? That leaves $5,000 for materials, overhead, administration and profit..??? Don't think we can do it for that Mr. Roderick, especially considering that we will have to put up with you second guessing every move we make. Oh, and I forgot to mention....we will have to add a bit more onto your change order....for LEGAL fees to review your every move!!I wouldn't build a dog-house for a bum attorney who went to the internet to get other's opinion of whether he was paying too much. Would be like me watching Judge Judy to decide my strategy in a court of law. Lame.SCHMUCK!!!!!!
*100 Reasons why Mr. Roderick Pay's $23,000 for his Extra Bedroom over the family room: Reason #1 being foremost:
*Mark,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*I assume your business is limited to building dog houses. So we'll discount your opinion.To put it mildly, you missed the point. Regards.
*Yes, I agree with you. I'd much rather buy the house with character. The thought of the big white empty box on a tree-less moonscape is not appealing. We're still looking. But there are all kinds of factors that go into this. One that you'll sympathize with is that all those older houses with character, like the one we live in now, have six-and-a-half foot basements, making shop space real, real cramped. A friend has a new house with a beautiful shop in a big, tall basement. Whatever.Thanks for your comment.
*Touché-- andrew d, esq.
*Ours has a 7'+ basement, a rare find around here. But the shop ended up in the garage, keeping the dust and racket out there. The big door is awful nice too.I just like to stick up for dumpy old houses now and then! At 1600 sf for a (soon-to-be) family of four, I'm well out of step with current standards... (I don't even want to replace the moribund central A/C!)
*Gabe--The problem is, these "volume rooms" are all the rage in new houses, just like the gargantuan master bedroom suites with "sitting rooms" and so forth. If you want a new house, at least in our area, you have to start with their standard product and go from there.I should say that the extra bedroom isn't a "custom" thing, it's one of the developer's standard options, like upgrading carpet or floor coverings. That's why the cost struck me as so high. By comparison, to bump the house out about 12 feet, including basement, and add extra rooms on both first and second floor, with extra roof, etc., cost only about $10,000 combined. So something seemed out of whack.MARK
*WOW
*That was probably an unfair jab at you personally. Don't you just hate it when someone questions the value of your services or product? What triggered it was the word "outrageous" in your post. If you would prefer, I can delete the message and repost it in the Tavern without the connection.Sorry Mark, I don't build dog houses. I am in a specialty industry where I am questioned quite often about the price I charge for my expertise and product. You just happen to be the closest cat to kick on a rather tough week. My apologies to you sir. You give the word. Delete totally, let it stand (I will gather the wrath) or move it over to the Tavern. Moving it would give you an opportunity to comment and enlighten/educate us on your avocation. Perhaps the majority takes an unfair view of your profession, as perhaps the high-end tract home builders take a similar hit for change orders.
*Mark,The price you mention is probably out of line. Why? They don't want to do it. Get a quote from a reliable remodeling contractor who wants to do it. It will probably not cost you extra to leave some things undone that would have to be undone anyway in the course of the change, but don't expect a discount either.
*You assumed I was taking a stab at a tradesman or builder, questioning his ability or integrity. Instead, I am questioning the pricing policies of a very large corporation that will probably pay its tradesmen a small fraction of the price for doing the work, managing to overcharge me and underpay them at the same time. All concerned seem to believe the price is way out of line, including the company's on-site representative. I actually think it will turn out to have been a mistake. As you can see from another posting on this topic, it seems excessive even when compared to other available options on the same house.Obviously my message hit a sore spot with you. But you can do whatever you want with your posting. I don't think it reflects badly on me.I will politely decline the invitation to discuss my profession. It is curious, however, that while many people profess to dislike lawyers as a group, for some reason they make an exception for their own.MARK RODERICK
*Mark and all, I am afraid I have to disagree with the position that you are being over charged for the described work.Your homebuilder has a position that this is the price he wants for the work and you are free to accept his price or shop elswhere. There is no gun to your head to accept this situation and you are free to choose your own path.The reality of life,in this country anyhow ,is that ALL of us are independent business men and free to set our prices as high as we wish....even salary or wage workers.our customers or employers are free to accept our products or decline them as they so choose.If a worker leaves the employ of one company at $15/hour to accept another opportunity with another company at $25/hour is he "overcharging"the second employer?Good Luck all,Stephen
*Hi Mark,You have to appreciate that you gave so little information and requested an opinion on the cost of something I can't see.If the house value is 100,000 then the 23,000 for a 10 by 12 modification would be outrageous. If the house is valued at 500,000 then the 23,000 for a 18 by 24 modification would be very reasonable. See what I mean?What always surprises me is the general misconceptions about value. What makes one person's time worth 250.00 per hour and another's worth 25.00 per hour when they both require 10 to 20 years to achieve the same level of expertise that gives them credibility and respect.The same is true with regards to track housing vs custom homes. The cost to make a track house conform to your lifestyle is always more than building it that way from the start. I cannot and will not accept the excuse that custom has to cost more. Custom just means that it's built for you and your lifestyle.Gabe
*Mark, by the standards of this forum jj (esp. as a former mason!) was being remarkably conciliatory in his second post. You can't edit what you said after 30 minutes, and deleting it leaves the other guy's posts kind of hanging. An etiquette thing.The price is excessive if it is excessive, it's subjective. Criticize it, try to negotiate it, then pay it, arrange an alternative, or take a walk. How will one bedroom affect resale? What resale value will this lightly-used house have when a similar brand new unit has probably been built nearby?Homebuilding has gotten more expensive over the years in part because workers are treated better -- all those "old world craftsmen" of yesteryear were immigrants with no workers comp or benefits and not making a heck of a lot.
*No doubt you are correct at one level. The price is the price and we are free to take it or leave it, without any "moral" implication one way or another. There are some cases where pricing policies do seem to have implications beyond the academic theories of the free market---for example, when a pharmaceutical company prices a new drug for children beyond the reach of 90% of American families---but certainly this bedroom is not one of these.The real point of my original post was not whether the developer is morally right, but whether my wife and I should accept the developer's price or pursue a different alternative. If you experts out there thought it would really cost $23,000 to build a single bedroom, then our decision would be easy---we could take it or leave it. But the decision is more complicated if we learn that an "after-market" builder could do the job for $5,000. In that case we should either negotiate further with the developer or just wait until the house is built and hire that $5,000 builder. Maybe the developer would even allow our builder to install the bedroom while the house is being built, just as the developer allows our flooring sub in. You're right that the free market should be allowed to function in this case. But free markets function best when buyers and sellers have access to the same information. Thus my original post.MARK RODERICK
*I'm intrigued that they let you bring in your subs.
*I have to agree with most of what jj has to say, even if it was the end of a tough week and hope he doesn't delete any of his post. The one thing I may disagree on is who the "schmuks" are. This is a great forum where anyone can ask for and receive FREE advice from a group of knowlegeble contractors and craftsmen. Though we may disagree on the finer points(and some major ones), most of us are sincerly trying to be helpful. I am not aware of any forums like this geared to help people with their legal questions. The few I have visited are not much help.("Check with your lawyer to see how this applies in your state etc.") Small contractors give away much information to customers just in the bidding process. Lawyers charge a consultation fee. Sometimes this makes me feel like a "smuck". So don't be surprised when a contractor has a knee-jerk reaction to questions on pricing by someone in a high income field(like lawyers). Mark- why don't you hire an independant builder rather than a large corporation to build your house? It does seem rather hypocritical to ask the "little guys" if you're getting ripped off by a large company. If I asked you if I was getting a good deal from Hyatt Legal Services would you be happy to give helpful advice that I could take back to negotiate a better deal with them? I doubt it. So please- if you're going to ask us for advice please patronize us with your businessJohn
*Andrew,Your above post..."I'm intrigued that they let you bring in your subs.""is extremely intriguing to me.I have a friend who was picked up for speeding on a state highway. The officer was mobile and "clocked" my friend at 69 mph in a 55 zone @ 6 a.m using radar. The area is extremely rural {less than 40,000 population in a 600 square mile area]. My friend swears he was only doing 54 mph as that is what he sets his cruise control on.['88 Olds-well care for] He makes this 46 mile round-trip 5 days a week and always arrives early to work, no hurry. Straight,flat rural stretch of road, barely a traffic count of 100 vehicles in either direction at that time of the morning. Major power generation station within 2 miles of the place where he got the ticket.To make a long story short: this friend of mine works at a factory grossing ~$320.00 a week[less than $10.00 an hour]. He has a family and struggles to make a mortgage payment on a modest home and buy the necessities for his wife and children. He is also what many would call a part of the "working indigent" class in this country. I knew something was bothering him (we shoot the breeze almost everyday) but he was reluctant to tell me. After a little gingerness on my part he confided in me that he was facing this speeding violation court date and the fine was going to be $85.00. WOW, $85.00 I thought??.....that is a load of groceries for a guy who probably brings home less than $250.00 a week after federal deductions,SS and health insurance contributions.So my contribution? Larry and I would try to discredit the validity and accuracy of the radar considering the circumstances. I would assist him with my more worldly ways to research the cases at the local law library and try to arm him with a semblence of a defense and at the same time conjure up some confidence in him to face the "intimidating circumstances of a not-guilty plea, a judge, the state trooper and a prosecutor".Guess what??? The county law libraries only admit attorneys and judges......common citizens are not permitted the resources of the purveyors of justice. Suppose he should have hired an attorney at $200.00 an hour to "research and build" a defense in his little $85.00 traffic violation defense?I will leave you with retrospect as to what could be considered "outrageous" in comparison to a "room above the family room, More or Less?"I am SORRY Mr. Roderick, to put it mildly, YOU missed the point.Jeff
*Good points. I think it's spelled "schmuck", which in Yiddish literally means "penis."The reluctance of lawyers to give unequivocal advice comes from a legitimate fear of malpractice claims and the really astonishing variability of law from state to state. Add to that the often bizarre results when you actually go to state court, and all you can make is educated guesses.The Bar associations in many states provide a lawyer referral service, which will give you the name of a lawyer in the practice area you need. That lawyer has usually agreed, as a condition of being listed, to give a $30 or $40 30-min. consultation. Not bad considering getting a JD requires 7 years of post-high school education during which you're not earning much of anything.
*Go to a federal court library. They have public access. I agree that caselaw should be available to everyone and have pushed this point in the past in my professional career.It is often worthwhile to challenge a ticket because the judge might give you a break or the officer might not show up. I have no idea exactly how to challenge a radar gun ticket, but it is certainly plausible it was miscalibrated. People every day are subjected to injustice for darker reasons such as race; your friend should be glad to have had such a mild encounter with injustice.BTW, I think they should scale the fine to your income. It is supposed to get your attention, and a fixed fine can't do that for everyone rich and poor.As for "bringing in your own subs," I'm guessing taht as a developer I wouldn't want that because if problems erupt it could lead to a finger-pointing nightmare; or at the leat it could cut into my slender profit.
*You know Andrew? You missed the point also.Don't tell me I have to go to a federal library. The hick lawyers where this guy was tried hadn't been inside a federal library in years. Each state has its own precedent case law. Although you can cite other states cases.Are you a licensed/recognized attorney, Andrew? Within your jurisdiction or any jurisdiction for that matter? Or are you just defending the scumbag practitioners because it makes your ego?A simple ...Yes or No...will do. Cut the jibberish. Justice is justice!! The accused shouldn't have to travel to a "federal library" to prove their innocence. Especially when the "marketeers of justice" have access to the material to "influence the preponderance of innocence" and at the same time perpetuate the denial of access to relevant case history to the accused. I suppose in your little world, the accused must prove their innocence?"Outrageous"!! Check out #67 on the list.
*Screw you Andrew!!Don't give us that $30-40.00 consultation TV advertising crap!!!That is a "bait and switch" device that ambulance and disability chaser quacks use to suck in prospective clients which they then screen to their advantage. Ya' know?......the more times yer up to bat.....the better chance ya' have to get a few hits???? All attorneys in the US belong to the "Bar" don't they? How many industries or professions are given the "absolute" authority to police their own members, unequivocally?Just how many posters here on Breaktime....or the real world for that matter have had an appearance in court defended for a "consultation fee" of $30-40.00?If you insist Andrew, I will explain it further, in laymen's terms. Most who read what you, I and the Philly barrister have written won't need it spelled out for us.I again refer to: [the score card]
*Well, I must say that I'm surprised my original post has spawned such interesting and heartfelt responses! Obviously we've tapped into something much deeper than family rooms.There are actually LOTS of places to get free feedback on legal questions. One place is the Internet. There are lots of free forums and way more free sites for legal information---I have about 30 bookmarked myself. In every construction oriented magazine I've ever seen there are regular article on legal issues written by practicing lawyers hoping to generate business, but with very good information nonetheless. You can get inexpensive books dealing with the legal issues peculiar to your industry. Then there is the local law library---or the nationwide law libraries available on the Internet. There, you can get a wealth of free information written by lawyers on thousands of subjects. You might need some help deciphering technical stuff, but just think of the trouble I've had deciding on an hvlp gun!Now by comparison, having read thousands of legal magazines, I've never seen a column on construction issues written by a knowledgable contractor.Lighten up, guys! The next time you have a legal problem send me an e-mail (be aware, I'm a business and tax lawyer, not a construction lawyer). I'll give you a quick, off-the-cuff response with the appropriate disclaimers, just as you'd expect if you were asking about radial arm saws.
*My! I didn't mean to provoke anything. However, "100 Reasons I Hate Lawyers" is just bigotry, some humorous. We have a lot of lawyers because we have a complex and sophisticated society, perhaps the most so in the world. The vast majority (95%) of lawyers do not go to court and don't litigate; they work for corporations and assist in business transactions and compliance with the law: that is, they are merely adjuncts to businesspeople. Many people of prominence have law degrees but don't practice law at all. Unfortunately, the only contact most laypeople have with the system regards litigation, so they come to think that's what it's all about.Generalizations about an entire class of people, any class, are suspect as stereotypes. I think the lawyer-bashing (a few years ago it was doctors) is a shame because it may discourage good people from going into the profession, and may encourage cynicism among those already in it. I view law merely as a form of advanced training in analysis of problems, a kind of analysis that anyone can do. It's like architects -- some really can design better than most engineers or builders, but their training is no guarantee of performance.So I do not think of lawyers as scumbags, and yes I have a hard-earned JD from a law school in the top ten (according to Consumers Reports anyway) and am admitted into three jurisdictions. Obviously I'm currently practicing carpentry, while eyeing the political scene to resume policy work later this year.Incidentally, a side benefit of my limited work in the trades has been my penetration of a lot of the stereotypes about people who work with their hands for a living. When I tell white-collar "professionals" that y'all are hard-working AND interested in stuff ranging from politics, science, ethics, to mathematics they look surprised -- another example of prejudice poisoning the mind.Well, there may be no point in engaging on this emotionally charged topic, but I thought I'd take a stab at it. Perhaps I'm just musing aloud.P.S. Federal law libraries have all the state materials for their jurisdiction because state law issues often come up in federal litigation. Eventually all this stuff will be online and free, like the Supreme Court material is now. I've only worked in the federal system so far, so that's the environment I'm familiar with.
*Good afternoon Andrew,Yes we do live in a very complex society, but remember this, its the lawyers in society and more specifically, in government that have made it so.Us lay people have to continually defend ourselves from the changes and additions to the "law".How would you feel if I built you a house, and then every 1 to 2 years later came back to demolish a section because of a change in the code, at your expense and without consultation with you?Thats how we feel, and no one cares.Never met a laywer I couldn't beat on his own turf.Gabe
*Gabe, the two key words in your message are "we" and "us." These words describe a world where a united "us" is being attacked by a united "them." For some reason human beings like to think of the world in those terms and are always conjuring up illusions of evil powers---doctors, lawyers, plumbers, the government---conspiring against them. This is the mythical battle of the oppressed against the oppressor, the weak against the strong.But our society doesn't work that way. Like everyone, you would be in favor of some changes in the law that have been made, and against others. And for every one of you there is someone else with exactly the opposite view. That person feels oppressed when the law you favor is enacted, and feel powerless when the law you oppose is not enacted. Ironically, he probably blames the same "them" you blame, even though it's really a bunch of Gabe Martels standing in his way.Multiply this by 270 million Americans each with a slightly different set of preferences. What you end up with is exactly where we are. The good news is, this is what pluralism and democracy are about: trying to compromise among 270 million sets of preferences. There is no unified evil force out there, just countless groups of your fellow citizens expressing themselves. The bad news is, just as you feel powerless and are taking it out today on lawyers as a convenient group (as if lawyers could even agree on lunch, much less on a plan to control society!!), really EVERYBODY feels powerless. I don't know whether people have always felt this powerless, but I see lots of expressions of powerlessness day to day.If there is something in the world with power today, it is not any individual or groups of individuals. It is free market capitalism itself. We are all in favor of it because we see the benefits---better tools, better cars, higher standards of living. Yet this is precisely what is tossing us all around helter skelter like so much driftwood, carpenters, masons, and lawyers alike. When your wife gets kicked out of the hospital the day after giving birth it may be convenient to blame the nurse or the HMO, but in reality the forces are much bigger than that. Free market capitalism is the huge tidal force that is sweeping over the earth for better or worse.All of the scapegoating is just self-indulgence, another expression of powerlessness. You'd be better off finding a more positive channel for your energy.But hey, I say those of us who have contributed to this discussion should pitch in and contribute something more meaningful. How about we agree that if the poor guy with the $85 ticket doesn't get out of it, we contribute to the cost. Symbolically, a contribution to the powerless. Really.
*Herein lies the root of your problem, MarkYou have wasted hundreds of lines to explaining and defending your philosophy of life and a dozen words to describe what we were originally requested to comment on.I'm the guy, lawyers hire to interpret construction litigation so that a Judge/jury can actually understand what is being said and then be able to make an intelligent decision.Now, when you hire another contractor to modify your home for $5,000 and something goes wrong and you want to make a claim on your warranty, give my name to the opposing side and pull out your wallet.Having fun being positively me.Gabe
*Without getting drawn into the lawyer bashing I would like to comment on something in one of marks earlier posts. He states that a free market functions best if all parties have equal access to the same information. Of course jjmcgough correctly points out that lawyers work very hard to exclude the general populace from information regaurding the legal trade.But more importantly,no one in their right mind could honestly claim a free market works best with all parties having equal access to info.In a transaction involving a seller and a buyer the seller has the advantage if he has all the info. But if both parties have the same info then the Buyer has the advantage and will do his best to bargain down the price to the break even point.But since in this instance Mark is the consumer,of course he wants equal access to info cause that way he gets the cheapest price.Equal info means that the free market will function very poorly for the producer.Regaurding the $80 traffic ticket.If you really want to help your pal out it would be simpler to give him the $80 rather than waisting any time in a law library( who knows what disease you could catch there).Or better still let him "help" you out of a "bind" on a job where he could earn $80-100.I once had high hopes for Andrew moving out of the legal racket and towards productive employment.I now suspect that Andrew may be a city councilman who was ousted from office and is looking for his next chance for the public (trough)office.If,however ,Andrew I have misjudged you than I really and truly opologize.Really.Best wishes all ,Stephen
*Well, I hope whatever I do it will be respectable and productive. And I don't regret having chosen to go to law school for even one minute. I learned so much about government and history. And my writing improved tremendously. I like words, and I want to be able to respond persuasively against injustice. A lot of the awful legal stuff that comes out of Washington -- the tax code for example -- are products not of lawyering but a corrupt system driven by money and influence. (A lot of stuff isn't even written by lawyers, making it really hard for us to figure out later on.)When i decided to go I had little more to go on than role models of people who had gone to law school and had careers of "doing good" that drew on these skills often in other fields. My uncle; President Lincoln; RFK; Clarence Darrow; Thurgood Marshall; much of the work of civil rights and voting rights attorneys, esp. in the 50's and 60's; and symbolically the fictional character Atticus Finch is one of the best (To Kill A Mockingbird). Pretty many for someone who doesn't believe in heroes.As for legal obfuscation, I was surprised how much better the writing is these days. Very little Latin any more, esp. federally. The people who are hard to understand typically just don't know how to write well. I spent two years drafting appellate decisions and believe me they were brief and clear. But I imagine my legal writing would be hard for an outsider to understand without knowing some of the background stuff that a lawyer of course doesn't repeat in everything they write. Hey, I used to get confused reading about "joists" and "headers," it's the same thing.Judge people as individuals. If you come to respect someone and then discover that they don't fit the stereotype, maybe it's the stereotype that should be questioned.
*Mark, There is a bit more to your project than simply joists, sheathing, and drywall "more or less." Depending on the layout of your floorplan there maybe some engineering involved with sizing your joists properly and transferring their load to the footers. The drywall will have to be finished and painted. You will need some sort of finish floor: capet, hardwood etc. You need a door into the bedroom. You also need a closet which would have shelving installed. You will want a window appropriately sized for a bedroom. You would probably want to see what the house would look like with the different window design. That requires a new elevation from the architect. Doors and windows will need to be trimmed. Then the room would receive baseboard. The electricians will need to run wires to lights, receptacles, smoke detectors, etc. Then you need to buy these fixtures. The heating contractor needs to run ductwork(assuming forced air heat) into the new room. I may have forgotten somthing, but I think the point has been made. All of the things that I mentioned in the previous paragraph cost money. So let's do a little math. For arguments sake, let's say that your new bedroom is 15 X15 or 225 square feet. At $100/square foot, your room costs $22,500. The fairness of $100/foot probably depends on the price per foot for the whole house, but considering that it is a change order, it may not be too far out of line.Kyle
*Mark-Could you please address my comment on why you would have a "large corporation" build your house and then come to a forum of small businessmen for advice. Why don't you have an independant builder build your house exactly the way you want it? Because they are more expensive than Ryan Homes, Pulte homes, Wayne Homes et. al.You can't have it both ways. andrew- We are professionals too. Many of us in more ways than one. (I have a college degree that took me ten years to get because I had to work full time to pay for living expenses and college tuition, so I could only attend part time.) I'm now in residential construction by choice. It's taken years of educating myself(through research, observation, and experiance-a Working Man's Phd.) to get to where I am today. I suppose it's rather pointless to get into a debate with those who have gone through seven years of post high school education(while not earning much of anything lets not forget). Those who are trained in debating both sides of an argument equally well. And those who love to set us straight on our spelling errors.A little tired tonight, John
*
Joseph Fusco View Image
*I put professionals in quotes intending sarcasm. Of course builders are professionals. The Internet is deaf to the subtle expression. Anyway, I think the words out there for different groups -- "professionals," "working class," "middle class" etc. are kind of funny if you think about them. Most stuff I say with a grin -- taking oneself too seriously, especially here, is a vice.Cheers.
*OK.....I'd like to hear more about Kyle's price rationalization. My first reaction was, well $22k is a lot of money. But a mere skylight retrofit is what, $1500 - $2000, to put in a $300 skylight. That's because labor is expensive, and the details take time. So maybe $22k is not outrageous, depending on the details. A 4-bdrm is worth more than a 3-bdrm, too.
*Sure. In my area, the large companies you name, together with a handful of others like them, own most of the good land. They won't sell you a building lot, as much as we (and many, many others) would like them to. It has nothing to do with their houses being less expensive. In fact, the houses built by the big companies are much more extravagent (e.g., enormous master bedroom "suites") than my wife and I want. But you have to balance competing factors.
*You alluded to some reason you can't buy an existing house? I wasn't interested in new here because, although there's plenty of it here among the old, it was such poor value, IMHO. We would have only afforded a new townhouse for the cost of this sleepy single-family.
*Dear Mark and Gabe,The size of room was not mentioned and and it would be kindda difficult to give an estimate cost. The finishes is also important in determining the final cost. I'd say for a decent room built from timber in with a floor area of 100 sq ft. would come up to $10,000, without all the frills. Give and take $3,000 will be a safe bet.I built my own loft for next to nothing and it is from scrap lumbers from crates and pellets which people want to discard. The area is approximately 64 sq ft. and also a 30inches wide timber staircase for the access.Goodluck.Chan
*So don't tell me Chan that you broke the $100.00 a square foot barrier using pallets? If so, you must have a terrific source of pallets that we can't match.Do you mind letting us "dufuses" here in this forumn in on your secret? Is it a "collegiate thang"? Must live next to a 'sorority house'? or would you prefer we respond directly to your design team?I built my first shack from a "Kelvinator box" for next to nothing. Approximately 64 square feet and also 30inches wide. Timber we called it, until Timmy our Dalmation decided it was appropriate to take a dump on a daily basis.
*Dear Chan,You sound like a lot of the civil engineers that I have to deal with on a regular basis. They try to design multi-million dollar projects and rely on cost formulas from their estimating programs to budget the job.I've got a 6 million dollar project on hold right now because some engineering group made a 1 million dollar error in budgeting an arena.Building a loft out of crates may be an interesting story on its own, but has little to do with the post at hand.Gabe