Well I am in the midst of my dormer project, I’ve posted things about it here and some of you may have read about it. I’m starting to feel completely overwelmed and unmotivated to work on it. I wonder sometimes if I really did bite off more than I can chew. I doing it all by myself and people who said they’d help of course aren’t showing up the way I’d like. Some friends……… What do you guys do when you feel burned out. I did just take a little weekend break, but it didnt seem to help. I sometimes wish I had the $$ to pay someone to finish it. Advice?
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Replies
There is no advice. If you do it, it will get done. If you put it off, it won't.
Damn reality strikes again.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I think I really know what you are saying there Cal. Great non-advice. LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" I am not an Activist, I am, a Catalyst. I lay around and do nothing, until another ingredient is added"
I've found that the best antidote for lack of motivation is to do something that generates a feeling of accomplishment. Don't just take a break. Take a break to do something else that gives you that "hey, look what I did!" feeling.
Or another approach... when I was finishing my 2nd addition (there's 3 of them now), I got to the point where I had to tape and spackle and sort of stalled. Back then, I was really slow at it and knew it would take me a while. I hired someone to come in for 3 days and bang it out. After that, I got moving again.
-Don
People always have good intentions of helping. But stuff comes up - Their kids have soccer games, they get sick, etc. Everyone is busy.
Unless you've helped them out a great deal in the past and they owe you a favor, I think you're wrong to criticize them.
Have you asked them for SPECIFIC help? If you just tell them: "Come over whenever you can" they aren't going to show up. Most people aren't wanderin around looking for things to keep them busy.
Try giving them some notice and a specific task, like: "Can you help me with the framing next Saturday?" It would also help if you tell 'em something like: "I'll have dohnuts in the morning, and buy pizza for lunch".
.
It helps me sometimes to break large jobs down into sections. Rather than think of EVERYTHING you have to get done, just pick one project and try to block everything else out of your mind. That makes it a little less overwhelming.
Don't look at the whole project...break it into smaller steps and focus on just one step at a time. Build momentum and acknowledge each step as it's completed. Suck it up and get back to it. Get at least one thing done today, because that's one less thing on your list for tomorrow.
The reason the break didn't help was you came back and the "problem" was still there.
My old man used to say " you can eat an elephant, just do it one bite at a time."
Keep moving and at the end of the day you'll have made headway.
Seeing progress helps me keep motivated. (usually )
Buic
Yeah, that sucks. I've been there often. My guess is that you are either being oppressed by the sheer size of the project or that you're not comfortable doing whatever the current step is.
If it is option 1, then sit down and break it down into small tasks. Ones that you can do and cross off the list. Helps to keep you motivated.
If it is option 2, then either find someone else to do that step,or grunt and work your way through it. Once this logjam is eliminated things might start flowing again.
But as Calvin said... it won't get done unless you start working on it. It will just sit there nagging at you. As most married men know, it is easier to just 'do it' rather than to continue getting nagged at :)
jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
Edited 7/21/2006 4:31 pm by JohnT8
Craig.... well... as you can see.... you ain't alone. If you were, nobody would know what to offer you in regards to advice.
Forget about the 'troops' coming in to save you. Everyone wants to help build something, that is until they find out that it's actually hard work. :)
So it's you vs. the house. But like I said, you're not alone. I sometimes get discouraged or fell overwhelmed in projects I build professionally. Here's the sort of pep-talk I'll give myself on days like that.... it usually occurs on the ride into work or while I'm sitting in the truck before the guys get there.
"I just gotta show up and get through the day. Doesn't matter what I get done, because inevitably, something will get done... and that's better than nothing. So I'm just gonna put my time in, not whine or complain (to myself.... I'm the boss, so I don't get to complain out loud), I'm just gonna put my head down and work on the current task at hand. Don't look at the whole picture... just focus on the task at hand"
And before you know it, the day has come and gone. And low and behold..... something got done. And usually, quite a bit got done, because I didn't let myself get bogged down in the details and I went into it with a good attitude. Sometimes you just have to 'let go' and show up and just be part of the process instead of standing there and struggling like Atlas all day.
Deep breaths, little bites, and baby steps. Before you know it, the job will be cranking along again and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. And always remember..... we ain't saving lives here.... it's just sticks and nails. I never once got a call for a framing emergency.
Words of wisdom from the Reverend Diesel.
;)
jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
Yeah I'm always good for a blast of hot air spewed from a soapbox. I hope people don't take me too seriously around here. :)View Image
Enough with the humble BS already! I was thinking exactly what you said, but nowhere near as articulate. When you're good, you're good - roll with it!
He's right. Craig came in with a problem and you nailed it. Accept it. There will be other times when you're off the mark, so consider this one of your finer moments.
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
Well just remember this next time I've got my foot in my mouth then. :)View Image
That was good for just about any job. I think you should take that show on the road.
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
My old man used to say " you can eat an elephant, just do it one bite at a time."
Thats awesome. I'm gonna remember that one for ever.
Break it down Craig, into bite size pieces. I've been there (hell I'm there now) restoring my own house. 1800's farmhouse complete remodel with three additions about 85% done. Last 15% has taken the longest.
Pull out some pictures of what it used to look like...that always gets me going.
Tell the dw to pick out some curtains...she'll get you motivated!!!!
I like to break thing, totally detroy something, and just leave the pieces laying around for somebody else to clean up.
Like others have said-
break it down into manageble parts and set some kind of goal for yourself.
If you reach that goal, give yourself a reward. It may be just an extra beer for your hard work, or some lovin' from your sweetie. Or whatever you decide.
But looking forward to even a small treat can get me thru the day.
Good words from everyone, take their advice. That's what's so good about this forum, when you feel buried & burned out, the guys on here can relate & get you motivated again. Just remember, it'll get done, take it one step at a time. Good luck man
I'm stuck in stop too. Got 2/3 of a porch framed, backhoe is sitting waiting for Joe to get his azz back on and finish the footings.
Used 75 80# bags of saccrete and ran out of steam. Even my wheel barrow has a flat tire.
Too damnhot for this. Got some shade last week, smoke from forest fires isn't the same as a cloud though.
Today it's hot & thunder storm moving through again. Whine whine whine.
Sooner or later I'll get some energy/interest back & it'll get done. Or the elves will come in the night and do it for me.
Joe H
I think I'd call the truck in before I'd mix 75 bags. Even if I had to form something extra up so I could meet the minimum order for the crete truck.
jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
John, I'm doing a few at a time.
They have to be 30" deep & the columns are 3' above ground. Dig a few holes, form one & pour. 2 a day if I don't get side tracked.
Side tracked a lot lately, looks like another hot one today. I did buy another 80 bags Saturday, but only 60#s this time. Getting lazy & definitely too old for this crap.
Joe H
I've got a pallet of those 80lbs bags in the garage of my project house. It was just a bit below my 'pull the trigger' point for the truck. That plus a wheel barrow would have been difficult to use (putting in some additional pads for supports in a crawlspace) to wheel the stuff in from the truck.
When it was delivered, I had requested the fork-truck, but they sent the skyhook instead. So I shifted them all into the garage myself. Figure another shift to get them where they're heading..and then actually mixing them up... and I will have reaffirmed my fondness for crete trucks.jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
Funny, i'm on a job like that right now.
Didnt want the job so I bid it high, the client says you look like someone that will take care of my mother so we want you to do it.
So I start this job and my helper disappears for thwe whole week!
I'm really hating this job but its getting done. I've just been looking at the job one piece at a time. I should be done buy tuesday and it too will pass.
I'm assuming this is your house so enjoy the work and if ou need to walk away, do it. Then come back to it and show us some pics.
Mark, what kind of job are you into right now?
blue
We just finished today. It was a 3 season room in Grosse Pointe that was falling in on itself. I didnt want it cause what I could see was completely rotted away and who knew what the parts I couldnt see looked like.
Actually the job turned out good and the client was a nice lady, so it was all good.
Well I'm one of the last ones who should be giving advice on finishing a project...
but here's what works for me when I'm not procrastinating
1 Slow down, and take a deep breath, this ain't gonna kill, no reason to get all bent on it.
2 Break it up into managable pieces in your head, set small goals, and achevie them
3 spend less time thinking and more time doing
4 burry your head down, push through, and make it happen. Basically get off your asz....
Personaly I'd grab a beer out of the fridge and sit on the couch though.
"Basically get off your asz...."
'Bout sums it up for me. Inertia is a powerful force - for good or bad. If I can overcome the inertia of sitting then the inertia of moving sets in, and hours later I look up and realize I've actually gotten something done.
Good try, but you aint no DieselPig yet...lol
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" I am not an Activist, I am, a Catalyst. I lay around and do nothing, until another ingredient is added"
My advice?
GET BACK TO WORK YA BIG BABY : )
If Blodgett and Gunner say, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
I've felt completely overwhelmed at times with no one to turn to on projects that gathered complexities as time went on instead of gaining clarity. I tell myself that the ocean was filled one drop at a time, all fortunes can be made one penny at a time and according to Mao's Little Red Book that I read in my commie-pinko liberal Antioch College education.." The longest journey begins with the first step." When I turn around I see no one there to do the job so I just hunker down and do it.
Now get back to work. You're doing it because you can do it as well and cheaper than the Vicodin Construction Crew you were thinking of hiring.
Hi Craigabooey you a Howard Stern fan? Lil advise stop worring about your addition. Sounds simplistic I know but enjoy your home while the reno. takes place. These projects take years..who really cares or for that matter notices? I have "projects" in progress that will take several months if iam lucky. Just go and price new homes and that might help some. stinky (really don't stink)
If it makes you feel any better, I'm in the middle of one of those things right now. I do this for a living 50 hours a week and then am imeshed and up to my neck in construction and carpentry at home, making messes everywhere, tired as hell, haven't been on a vacation in 3 years....not one break, I can't stop, kids in college and I'm in tuition city. There are days that I feel if I never pick up a hammer again it won't be too soon so you know what I do?....I pick up my hammer and I go back to work. It is what it is. I totally understand what you're going through. It will get done. Forget about people helping because they have all of the great intentions but you know what the road to hell is paved with. Take the advice from these guys here, because they all know exactly what you're talking about and their advice is golden.
Buy yourself a new CD, do the work, have your favorite dinner, work a little more, it's Saturday so go to a movie tonight but first do the work, cut out an hour early after you've done the work. Break the work down into small projects (that's what I do), but do the work. Think about all of us goinks here at Breaktime while you're doing the work.
Diesilepig said it beautifully, but I like Andy's approach....it's pure New York tough.
We all burn out from time to time. Learn to pace yourself.
Now get your lazy azz outa the chair and I will mine and let's go get some work done!
Thanks for all the great advice guys. Today I got off my azz, got motivated again, and ripped all the old vinyl siding off my entire house in about 4 hours. I did have some help that showed up! It felt great to accomplish something that seemed like such a big task! Thanks again! My Mojo is back baybee!!!!!!!!
I sat on the couch, watched some Tiger and Roddick, drank some beer, ate a bunch of chips and salsa...OK I did mow the lawn, changed the furnace filter, & did the grocery shopping too.Glad you're back in the groove 8 > {
Edited 7/22/2006 10:04 pm ET by basswood
The furthest I got from the couch was to answer the door when the pizza guy brought dinner. First time in a month I had a day off work that didn't have some other commitment to prevent me from sitting around on the couch all day.In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.
The couch is cool.I just finished a basic kitchen that reminded me of some of your posts. This 16 box job took me 1-1/2 days (with a helper)--floor 1-3/4" out of level in 12'. Probly 1 day for you! : > )
A WINNER NEVER QUITS AND A QUITTER NEVER WINS.
I feel for you man, I was framing a house and when the sh!t hit the fan. I fired one guy for not showing up and when he did he was hungover and wasn't worth a crap. Then another guy quit saying that he didn't make enough money. I paid him $2200 for two weeks work, and thats not enough.
Anyway it was just me and one other guy framing a 2 story hip roof house that was around 2100 sq ft. Not including the 1700 sq ft garage. It took us forever and I was seriously letting this house get to me. Most days it was just me because my only employees father in law died, then he had his first baby 3 days apart, talk about bittersweet.
Finally I told myself what gets done that day is what gets done. I set goals each day and wouldn't stop working that day until I had met those goals. And what do you know, it got done and the feelings of being overwhelmed went away with each passing day.
Here's the light at the end of the tunnel for you. When you finish your project you will feel like you are on top of the world. It's a feeling that can't be beat, you accomplished a huge goal almost singlehandedly.
Good luck. What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
The hardest days for me are the "prep" days, especially prepping to paint or varnish. Done right, they take a lot of time, and nothing tangible gets done. I have to give myself a serious pep talk before those days to avoid taking shortcuts, be/c you always pay for those later.A builder friend told me something at the beginning of my house that's stuck with me: "Most houses don't want to be built--it's up to you to convince it."
That is the truth, prep work is a slow painful process.
In my case building headers, laying out plates, carrying studs and lumber up to the second story, is all prep work for what really counts- building the house.
There are some days where a single wall doesn't get stood up, just doing all the prep work. And people drive by and say what in the world is that guy doing? He was there all day and nothing got done, just some lumber moved around. Then the next few days I can stand walls up and people are amazed at what one guy can do of he does the prep work right.What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
That's so true. We'll spend a whole day with three or four guys at the saw horses cutting, stacking, and organizing a roof. It's lots of brainwork for me, and boring repetitive cutting for the guys, plus moving lots of big wood around. That's the real hard day. The next day we'll come in an snap it all together like legos, which is a breeze and actually really fun (if it works...lol).
But people who don't know will be all 'wowed' the second day.. and be like "geez you got a lot done today, huh?" When all the real work actually happened the day before. Never fails.View Image
You aren't kidding, the hard part is moving the lumber. Sometimes three or four times to do what you want with it. That is the part that is just repetitive and boring.
When you actually are building walls, I can run all day long without looking at the clock and not caring. Prep work I'm begging the clock to get moving, I get stuff done but just the same old stuff.
I use trusses so I don't have to stack and cut rafters, that would be fun for me until I did it for 5 years and my arms were 6 inches longer from carrying 16' 2x10's and 12's.What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
An excellent quote. One that can be applied to life, not just building.I added it to my quotes file. Along with that great one about the elephant by BUIC.=0)
Yadda yadda yadda
Shoulda called us Stilletto. We probably were twirling our thumbs. We'd have come over and helped you stand that up in a weekend!
blue
I have that whole sub-division to frame, You want work you got it. Next foundation goes in the ground in 3-4 weeks.
I'll take the help, it pays better a sq. ft. by almost a $1.00 and the garages are not free.
I'll split the jobs however you want within reason.
If you want to really stay busy I have another subdivision with 40 houses a contractor keeps calling about.
I am in Grand Rapids framing an addition right now so I'll start lining stuff up next week if you wanna stay busy. It's an 1-1/2 hour drive from Montrose MI to Battle Creek where the subdivions are located.
You want it? Come get buddy.
What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
Edited 7/25/2006 7:16 pm ET by Stilletto
How far's the commute from MA? ;)View Image
I so enjoy seeing and hearing about the work BTer's from all-over do. It would be a blast and an honor to work with just about everyone here in BT.So far I got to sub for Charlie the Singing Carpenter in the Twin Cities for a few days. I'd like to do more with some others...sometime. I need to get in touch with Hooker in LaX, WI.Fun to think about.
Well if you brought the forklift with you it would probably be 12-14 hrs.
Your invited too. :)What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
We are booked for the near future, but I have no idea what the fall and winter will bring us. Maybe we'll be calling you...
How much a foot did that 2100 with the walkout go for? If you don't want to talk prices out loud, email me.
blue
House and garage $17,000. What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
Nice!
blue
Unfortunatley they all don't pay that good, but they are comparable.
Here's how it breaks down,
9 ft. ceilings $5.75 a sq. ft.
8 ft ceilings $5.00 a sq ft.
180 degree winder stairs- $1,000
Unbackfilled garage 4.00 a sq ft. x2 floors. Bonus room truss picture took care of that. I had to hand frame intersecting gables in between the girders in the picture.
Well that's how it breaks down on that house and that subdivison.
The other contractor with the 40 house subdivision is $5.00 a sq ft across the board. Garages are 2.75 a sq ft.What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
Do you install any finish exterior trim on those houses? Bumped out rakes, corner boards, frieze, water table, anything like that? Or just subfascia?
And pardon my ignorance, but I just don't know.... from a framer's standpoint, are trusses faster or slower than stick framing... but how much (maybe a %?) would you guess?
I ask, because I always hear about how much faster I-joists are.... and it's usually from people who have never installed I-joists, because I find that on even a moderately cut-up frame, they slow us down. So I'm asking someone who actually installs trusses, which is faster? We've done a handful of jobs with them, but I'm in no position to guage which is faster. We're freakin' clueless when we have to install them.... no system, no organization.... it's mayhem. ;)View Image
The price includes no trim, just the frame.
I give the option to the GC if he wants Tyvek on the house or door and windows installed. One is included with the sq ft price not both.
As for the speed of trusses it's night and day. Everybody on your crew is framing walls until they are done, crane comes in and you set trusses for a few hours then start sheathing the roof.
How many hours do you spend cutting a roof? How long does it take to piece together. Thats how much time you can save with trusses on each job.
As for I-joists thats all we have been installing for the past 5 years, think of it as cutting a roof. I'll be at the saw horses cutting the joists as the guys are putting the rim joist on. I use my 10-1/4 model 860 Skil to cut the joists and Mike Smiths cutting guide.
I'll have a good head start by the time the rim is all on, then I help with the last few joists. Moving 40 footers all day by yourself= the best sleep you had since the last frame.
Learn trusses man, the time savings is huge! We set trusses on a townhouse and had it sheathed by 5:00 pm that same day.
I still have bad days with trusses, with a few tips from Blue lately my life has been easier ten fold. I just overthought the whole process. What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=76357.60
What's a "Mike Smith's cutting guide" ?
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
Edited 7/27/2006 7:59 pm by mike585
View ImageIn the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.
mike .. i think he's talking about a sled i made for our 10" Milwaulkee when we were cutting I-joists on the Adverse Conditions house
these guys are the pro-framers... we just dabble and muddle throughMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks. But you're not "dabbling". There's no dabbling with a 10" circular saw.
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
That's a 7 1/4" saw.... Mike's just a little guy. ;)View Image
View Image
Are you sure?"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
I was just kidding Mike... I was saying that Smith is a little guy, so the saw looks big. Guess it wasn't very funny huh? LOL... oh well. I guess that only funny part is that I think Mike is actually taller than me anywho.View Image
ackshally , brian... i got a visual of a mini-me with a big 8 1/4..
i did think it was funny
BTW.... BT love means never having to apologize for, or explain your jokes..
u no... FEITCTAJMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thats the one man, I really like it. It's simple yet accurate.
The only problem is when the guide is on a raised finger joint and it wants to rock back and forth. Then I just measure from the other end of the joist.What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
To be honest, trusses just aren't used very much around here and that's why I'm so unfamiliar with them. 99% of everthing is stick framed with the exception of a few jobs here and there and commercial work.
I don't necessarily mind i-joists either. I just charge a hair more because they're slower in handling then conventional lumber. But what we do now is leave them bundled... or sort and re-bundle with ratchet straps, and gang cut them with the chainsaw, headcutter. Pull out your tape once, snap a line and cut 20, 30, 50 joists at once. Then just scoop 'em with the forklift and set them on top of the walls.
The headaches come in when there's loads of flush framing and it's very cut up. This means lots of sorting and lots of different packs to cut to different length. That's a real time eater. And around here, the sites can actually be too small to handle the long joists efficiently. Last winter I had to send a truck back to the yard because it was loaded with 38'ers.... and there wasn't a single 38' space on the site to set them down. We had 10'6 on each side of the building to the chain link so the Moffit couldn't make it into the backyard either.
I'm enjoying this conversation of different techniques and materials. We both have the same job, but could concievably have some very different skill sets. It's pretty cool. This is yet another reason why sqft number are so bogus.... especially when you're talking about different areas of the country. For me $5.75/ft would put us out of business at first glance. But after looking at the homes you're talking about and hearing what is and is not included in that price, I'm fairly certain we could run a profitable business out there if we were proficient in truss installations as you are. Shoot, I've done some stick framed homes that worked out to as low as $7.50/ft and still turned my target profit.
Very cool.View Image
Some nights when I can't sleep, I think about giving it all up, and loading a few select tools in my truck and hitting the road. Drive out west, and start working my way across the country.
Work on a framing crew somewhere, get bored, and move to a finish crew somewhere else.
The thoughts only last a few minutes, and I get back to my bankruptcy paranoia.In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey.
That's pretty funny, I think about the same dream too sometimes. Me, the dog, the necessary tools, and the truck. But then I remember that I'm married, have a mortgage, a note on the machine, a truck payment.......... Guess that window came and went for me. During the time of my life when I shoulda been doing that type of stuff, I was too busy getting f$cked up to think about it. Oh well... no real regrets in my life, but an awful lot of lessons learned the hard way.
I really only have one gripe about my job and that's the financial insecurity. If we could just figure out how to alleviate that one minor hiccup (minor hiccup.... how's that for the understatement of the year..lol) I'd be the happiest guy in the world.View Image
Don't kid yourself. I have good financial situation (good, not great), consistent checks, benefits, 401k, house, pension, kids in college, and I find myself in the office wishing I was nailing off rafters. I get it out of my system on volunteer projects, DIY renovation, and reading BT.
I tell my wife "standby, one day I'm coming home from work early and buying a truck and I'm not going back". But for now I need the college tuition money. So dieselpig, if you look up from the job one day and see me at the curb with my bags and a worm-drive, realize its me and offer me a job. We'll settle on the details at the end of the day.
In the meantime, do what you're driven to do and the rest will fall into place. The time you wasted wasn't truly wasted, it went in to teaching you what you know now. That's why you invested the tip and didn't blow it. It's all education and discovering who you are.
One more thing, get an IRA.
"With every mistake we must surely be learning"
Yeah, the grass is never really greener on the other side, is it? My wife and I have been discussing our savings and investments lately. We have a decent Charles Schwaab account, she has a 401K plan, and I'm looking into a Roth IRA or T. Rowe Price retirement fund. We've been married for almost three years now and neither of us have life insurance policies. So Amica is putting together a quote on that too. I guess I'm finally starting to grow up. ;)View Image
I think I could turn a profit at $7.50 a sq ft raftering a house, might be close though.
Thats my biggest bi-ch about I joists, you get a whole pile of 40 footers to cut them into smaller pieces. Then the joists don't have what pieces you are supposed to cut out of them marked. Makes for alot of head scratching.
The flush framing is a killer with the custom houses, each joist has to be measured for the most part and if you miscount you now are short joists.
I like your gang cutting of Ijoists Id like to give it a shot. I gang cut my garage studs with my 10-1/4 saw as well stack 30 studs on edge, on the horses snap a line and cut away.
Around here its get it up and get it done. So the guy in line can do his job. It's all about the bank draw.
As for exterior trim that falls on the siding guys, like the picture of the Azek monster I posted. I am siding it and all the trim falls on me.
The last time I seen crown molding on a new house around here it was vinyl and went on like a piece of J-channel. Maybe Blue has seen more of it in his area, his area is notorious for rich people. Around here people will go without the trim when they see the price for it.
I agree this is a good converstion, eye opening to see how others in the business in other parts of the country make it happen.What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
That's why I like dimensional lumber... it all fits and you can use it anywhere. Extra joists? Use 'em in the roof. Extra rafters, use 'em as staging. None of this, not being able to finish sheathing the deck for a day and a half because the yard shorted you a joist or two or one arrived damaged.
For the most part, it's 'all about the bank draw' everywhere I think.
One more I-joist gripe.... the hangers and hardware are a royal PIA. Web fillers, squash blocks, top mount hangers....yuck. But I'm in the same boat as you.... we use a ton of I-joists and I don't see that ending anytime soon. Guess I better get used to it, huh? :)View Image
Stilletto, we have neighborhoods that add the nice touches and plenty of barebones neighborhoods too.
What thread was that picture of that 2100 sf house in? I can't find it in this thread and I don't remember where it was. Could you repost the pics if you cant remember it too? I was going to try to give Diesel and estimate of how long it would take to set trusses on that job.
Ijoists: I find them to be significantly slower on most cut up jobs. If the jobs are fairly routine, then they are only slightly slower. I have not gang cut them but I don't think that cutting them is much of the time factor. The biggest time killer is sorting through them and worrying/making sure you don't make a wrong cut. They shouldn't send out long pieces that need to be cut, without giving a cut sheet on them. On the last job we did with them, they sent out a 40'er to be cut into 14" blocks!!!! There were other 40's that had to be cut into 20's. There were 20's sent out. Nothing was logical or made sense. The cut sheet we had was unreadable. Nothing was marked so we had to spread the huge piles all over the street just to get into it to measure stuff.
When the guys load the stuff in the yard, they know what length it is. If they'd simply mark the racks with a number it would go a long way toward helping us out. Of course, I understand that they are not interested in helping us out...
blue
I replied to you in the lot 12 thread in the photo gallery. I am on a different computer and can't figure out haw to move the pics hereWhat's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
Blue, I'd be interested in hearing your take on my above question to Stilletto as well if you're up for it.View Image
Trusses cut the roof framing in half or better.
Lets talk about a simple run of trusses. Maybe 32ers. It really doesn't matter what pitch. We set 12/12's as fast as 4/12's. We use two men up in the trusses and one operator and one rope guy. The operator can hook and do the rope if we only have three men onsite.
The bottle neck is the crane. Ours isn't particulary fast, but even when we used a bigger crane, we still were always waiting for the next load.
We typically take two trusses at a time. I've experimented with three, daydreamed about setting for with somesort of rigging but always ended up just setting two. It's safe, easy and fast.
We start with one truss: the crane holds it till we brace it. That takes a few minutes, but not usually more that five. It all depends upon the truss configuration. We strive to get a brace at the lateral bracing area and maybe one on the peak. We might run a temp lateral on the front and back on a 32'er . We might only run one lateral if we can get it high enough and provide enough stability.
If we have a hipset, the hipset will be the starting point and it is a very good anchor for the lateral bracing, in most cases.
After the first truss is braced, it becomes a simple matter to set two at a time. As soon as the trusses land, one guys grabs the two trusses and lets the crane unhook the load. I'm usually the guy holding the trusses. As the crane trys to unhook, I watch and help him as necessary. Truss man #2 is immediately setting the first truss for "endo". He is trying to set his truss to the fascia. As soon as he has it set, I check my fascia to see if we are centered or if the truss needs adjustment. I might ask to move it 1/4" and he complies. I help a little by leaning my fat body in the way I want it to move. As I'm doing all this, I'm also getting my lacer ready to shoot. Our lacers are 92 5/8" studs with a 24" oc black mark. The lacers are a huge secret to speedy truss setting. Dont' tell anyone my secret. We set the lacers a minimum of 8' up the length of the rafter because I want to lay two sheets before I need to remove the lacers.
When I set my lacer, I hang it out 4' past the truss that I'm setting and I nail that truss and then I nail to the anchor truss. While still standing out there by the lacer, I slide the second truss near it's layout mark on the wall. Truss guy #2 then immediately sets this truss for "endo". The instant I hear him say that it's "flush", I nail the lacer into it. That lacer is now hanging 24" past the last truss set and ready for the next landings.
Those two trusses are set and temp nailed in about a three or four minute cycle, depending on what the crane guy has to do to get the next ones to us. Since the actual temp bracing only takes a minute, I usually have a minute or two to get other things done. It's not unusual for me to have all the overhangs nailed up tight ready for plywwood and most of the backing nailed onto the interior partitions too!
So diesel, think about it. How long does it take you to cut and install 4' of conventional framing, front and back?
If we do ten rounds of this system, it might take us 30 minutes and then a few more for the gables or hipset ends. It would not be unthinkable to set a 4o' wide house in less than an hour. A three car garage might be another 25 minutes.
In most cases though, we don't get off so easily. We normally are fighting stepped trusses, scisoors, monos, combos. girders and girders going into girders. We normally see a wide variety of difficult installations: hangers on one side or both, etc. Quite often, when we are setting large heavy trusses into hangers, we'll send only one. To alleviate this slower process, I prefer to build temp walls and set the trusses without the hangers installed on the girders. Then, we drop a guy under to install the hangers. We do that so we can continue setting two at a time.
If simple trusses cut the time by 75%, the more complicated cut the time even more.
Setting trusses my style would make an interesting read in the FHB rag, but they'd have to send all the issues to a country that doesn't have OSHA. What we do is safe, but there's no way I could convince a desk guy of that.
blue
My Mojo is back baybee!!!!!!!!
You've discovered the secret! If you say your Mojo is back, it will be back!
It's all mental.
blue
Just focus as much you can, stick with it, coach yourself through. Don't give up, you'll rest when it's done, and it will get done, just hang in there.
A little shrink talk:
A high proportion of the folks here have ADHD (attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder), though likely most are undiagnosed. ADHD and construction seem to go together for some reason.
Many with ADHD lack "normal" organizational skills -- an organizational project that would seem trivial for a "normie" is overwhelming for these folks. This problem (kind of a learning disability) tends to make folks shy of actually starting things -- where a "normie" would just begin working, the ADHDer will sometimes be paralyzed by anxiety about beginning.
If this description seems to fit you then you may want to see a shrink and possibly get some ADHD medication. But just knowing that you have this problem and giving yourself "permission" to have it (vs beating yourself up for not being "normal") may be enough to let you move ahead.
Interesting info about the ADHD possibility. Also, anxiety and/or depression could be a factor. Fear of failure, especially for folks that tend toward "perfectionism," can immediately grind a project to a halt.
I think in most cases, though, the previous advice about breaking up large projects into manageable tasks can work. Sometimes very small tasks. Like, "within the next two minutes I'm gonna shut down the computer, grab my cell phone and truck key, and walk out the door."
Hmmm... better make that, "NOW, I'm gonna shut down the computer ...."
Allen
"A high proportion of the folks here have ADHD (attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder), though likely most are undiagnosed. ADHD and construction seem to go together for some reason."
You called it well. Count me in on that ADD stuff. Now that they have a name for it, it's nice to know there's a reason for being so off the wall.