Well I spent the big bucks the other day an bought the tool and vac and accessory pack. My part-time remodeler friend was over that afternoon wondering if it would work on a handrail project. I showed him how simple it is to assemble a handrail with it and now I am going to be working on that project with him.
My first simple project was to build a small “H” box for the wife to take to work (roughly 14″x 13″ x 10″ deep), I made it out of 3/4″ “melamine”. I made one center line mark and used 3 of the smallest tenons 5×30 mmx about 3/4″ wide on each side. Glued up with Tight Bond3 and after drying I stood on the shelf, I put my full 285# on it and rock solid. Took longer to saw the boards than to drill the mortises. The self indexing function worked great for exact spacing. Can’t wait to start building some cabinets and bookcases. I understand it is extreamly expensive but will be selling off my Jet mortiser and PC 557 as I will not need them any longer. That will offset about 1/4 of the cost. BTW the vac with boom arm is fantastic, the hose fits the DeWalt ROS prefectly.
Replies
I checked it out at JLC a few weeks ago.
Nice tool.
I can see where it'd be well worth the purchase if you can make it fit into your construction habits.
What's the replacement cost for restocking the tenons? Decent? Or "ouch!". I tried searching for non-Festool retail prices but came up empty.
Mongo
I'd make my own tenon stock when I ran out. I use a homemade slot mortiser now and making tenons is quick and easy and a good use of scrap.
Check out this web site for more info. This guy is an excellent sorce of information and really good to work with. Got a lot of rave reviews on the Festool Owners Group site. Check out the demo videos if you got the time.
http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/index.html?sid=3d2fac2956c7d462965d3ea63e984cf2
To answer an earlier statment, not sure I would consider my time to make 510 10x50 or 1800 5x30 tenons worth $65.
I think most of the accessories/consumables for festool are fairly priced, especially for the quality. The saw blades, tenons, etc are very reasonable.I just wish their tools were less expensive.
Thanks.
<< "What's the replacement cost for restocking the tenons? Decent? Or "ouch!". I tried searching for non-Festool retail prices but came up empty." >>I saw the Domino demoed at my local tool outlet; I noted the price for the tenon stock, then walked over to see how much they were charging for biscuits. I was surprised to see they are just slightly more per piece than biscuits.It would certainly be possible to make your own tenon stock, but the Festool tenons are made out of the same kind of pressed wood you get with biscuits -- so when wetted with glue, they expand enough for a tight fit in the tenon.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
OK I keep thinking about this Dominoe thingy...It DOES look like a nice unit that will do a great job joining wood.BUT...
from a Carpenters view point, I keep comming back to it being nothing more than a high end biscuit joiner.I got a 15 y.o. biscuit joiner and 900 biscuits in my shop waiting for projects.if I were a wood worker/furniture maker I could find 1001 uses for the dominoBut as a carpenter i can do 99% of what I need w/ my kreg jig or my biscuit joiner.so can some one enlighten me as to the bennys for a dumb carpenter???I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
Uhh there are no bennys for a dumb carpenterl. You don't need one. It's for furniture makers and the like.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Thanks G-manI thot that was the case but I needed reaffirmation...I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
I'm here for ya bro.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Hey...look how long its taken us to get a Multimaster...lol...I "still" don't have one...although I got an Email from Heavy Duty telling me they're finally coming in this week.
Only way I'd score a Domino is if I REALLY needed it for something wher eI know it'd pay for itself...thats how I accumulated ALL the tools I have...right?
You know, not to generalize, but the 29% of people who still support President Bush are the ones who love to pronounce themselves more patriotic than the rest of us. But just saying you're patriotic is like saying you have a big one. If you have to say it, chances are it's not true.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
It would have been greaat on all those railings you just completed!is what I keep telling me
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I wuz thinking the same thing...a little overkill though..like it didn't take me long enough just using SS screws and PL...Thank god thats done! edit: and in two more years $6-700 will be like spending $4-500...like as in dog and computer years...and by then it'll have dropped in price to $500 which will really only feel like $200...and oh yeh...by then we can pick one up on Ebay for fifty bucks...lol...although I ain't gettin; any younger...hmmm and in my next life...ahhhhhhhhh ferget it I gotta get a few hours sleep...ZZZZZZZZZZZhttp://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 4/9/2007 2:10 am ET by andybuildz
We just picked one up for a closet project we are doing with bamboo plywood--all blind fastened.The major advantage over a biscuit is the accuracy. There is a spring loaded pin on the fence that can be used to index two pieces to eachother. No marking, no measuring, but completely flush. I never was really happy with the slop of biscuits, in all four directions. Then again, our biscuit machine is a dewalt. Anyone want it?
so can some one enlighten me as to the bennys for a dumb carpenter???
T, I asked that same question and all I got was, "I could find 1000 uses for it" but I never get more then a couple things that a biscuit jointer will already do.
I really dont see any use for it out in the field. And in the shop I have made some nice jigs to do the same thing that the domino will do so I just dont get it.
Doug
I'm on the fence with it too - hard to justify the biscuit jointer (PC557) I have for as little as I use that thing.But, after seeing some of the demos and seeing what other folks have done with theirs, I'm on the opinion that it'll do everything a bisuit jointer will do faster and end up with better quality.That's why we use air nailers, right?You guys were probably the ones saying how you never had no problem with a regular old hammer and nail );Obviously, the Domino is pricey, but it would open up a lot of opportunities to do some projects in a much speedier fashion than other methods with no loss in quality.As nice as my PC557 biscuit unit is, I'd be hard pressed to call it a precision machine.JT
But is the domino so much more precise then the biscuit jointer? I know that Festool would mean that the machine is a well made precision machine but how could it possibly replace the biscuit jointer out in the field?
Using the domino to join two pieces of wood as I saw in one picture can in no way be any stronger of a joint then the biscuit.
Using the domino to do cabinet doors would be of no value to me because I doubt that that joint is any stronger then a cope and stick - I never see doors falling apart at the joints.
I really see the value in this machine to be in a shop setting. Building chairs, tables, stuff like that. I wonder how one could use it to make man doors? I dont recall what the biggest domino was, didnt seam to be big enough for a door. When I do doors I want my tenon to be at least 2/3-3/5ths the width of the style - styles usually being 4 1/2 to 5" I dont think they make a domino that long.
I'm sure that there is a real purpose to this machine. Festool isnt Firestorm, they're not in the habbit of making some silly gizmo to to intice DIYers.
I see the domino more suited for furniture as opposed to a architecual milwork shop such as where I work. We dont break out the biscuit jointer all that much.
You guys were probably the ones saying how you never had no problem with a regular old hammer and nail );
You got me mixed up with someone else, I will buy anything that I think will do a job faster, better, more efficiently. I've never been stuck in the past when it comes to tools. Just because you feel the need to own one doesnt mean that I'm resistant to change. I have to use my head and see that that change is actually benifical. Maybe this machine is just what you need, fine, then buy it. I just havent came to any conclusion yet.
But, on the other hand I'm planing to make a pair of beds for a couple of my grandaughters in the next month and maybe.........
Doug
Edited 4/8/2007 11:37 pm ET by DougU
Doug,My reply was meant to be to: ALL, not a direct response to you in particular.I do know a lot of folks that are so stuck in their ways that they will ignore or simply be unable to grasp the advantages of using a new or particular tool in any given situation.I've found that's it's futile to try and help them see the light, just get what works for you and then work circles around the guys sticking to the "tried and true" methods. Of course - being on the cutting edge of tool buying and aquiring means you'll invariably end up with a few that don't deliver as promised and sit around in the basement unused... I know I've got a few of those myself.But for every one of the one's that didn't pan out, I have 2-3 that truly help to make my daily workload go faster and smoother and were worth every $$$$ cent.The multimaster is one of those that seems like $$$$ for what it is, but there's been many a day that I could not have completed a certain task asw easily without it.Regards,Julian
Julian
Maybe I took your statement about the "tried and true" methods a little close to heart. I too have some of those "next best tool since the hammer" that now sit around collecting dust. I'm a sucker for anything new but as I get older and closer to retirement I catch myself having to justify it a little more!
And I've never bashed Festool on here or any other place, quite the opposite. My reaction to the tool is "how can I use that" which isnt a response I come up with for other tool manufacturers.
Funny you mention the multi-master. I bought that tool last fall for two reasons, a; I got a small bonus check, b; the tool place that I deal with had them on sale to unload a particular packaged model.
I've used the tool once since then, had it for 6 months now and it never comes out of the truck. I never think of using it! I sure hope the occasion to use the tool comes up more often because I'm starting to second guess my purchase. I'm hoping at my estate sale they mention "only used once" to solicite a better price. <G>
Must be a tool that remodelers use a lot more, not real sure. Or, I'm stuck in the old ways and dont realize it!
Doug
Face it. The Domino is not for you. You don't want one so get over it and fined something else. Your like T. You want someone to open your eyes for you and beg you to buy it. If you can't see the possibilities after the demos and what not then it's obvious that you don't need one. No need to beat yourself up about it.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
:PI don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
Gunner
WTF are you talking about!
I've never said that the domino is something that I would completly discount, just that I need, or would like to see where its going to replace the methods that I use - better and more efficiently. I think I may have even mentioned some places where I think the tool would probably be a good idea but since I dont do those things then...........
You want someone to open your eyes for you and beg you to buy it.
I cant remember the last time I begged for anything but its doubtful that you were present. If I thought the tool would help me do what I do or need then I'd own one. I must have some 25-30K in tools so droping $750 on another one probably wont kill me.
So, why dont you enlighten me with your devine wisdom regarding the tool so that I can see the light! I assume since you think its the cats azz that you have one - you mention that the demos have sold it so.......give me your impression of it.
Maybe I havent seen all the demos like you, not sure, I hope not.
No need to beat yourself up about it.
Again, WTF? Where do you make this sh!d up at. I can show you the names of three people on here and maybe 5 or 10 more over at knots that have made more comments then I have about the tool but they dont own one yet either - whats up with that? You got more people to talk to!
Doug
WTf am I talking about? WTF are you talking about?
You obviously don't want to buy one. You even turned down a chance to try one for free. Your mind is closed, put the whip up and stop beating the horse. He's dead.
I only know what I've seen in the demo videos. I'm not pimping anything. Your the one that keeps wanting people to show you why you need one. If you can't figure out where you could benefit from owning one then you don't have the imagination required to own one. You keep saying it over and over. You can't see where it would be a benefit to you to own one. There you go. You know what you want and need. And the Domino aint it.
That should clear up all the questions.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Nylons getting a little tight around your balls tonight hunny?
I never put the nylons on. I did get a bunch of cross dressers to come out of the closet though.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
You even turned down a chance to try one for free.
Go back and re-read the post - I turned down the chance to write a review. Maybe you missed that part. Gary offered me the chance to use the Festool Domino so that I could write a review because I was saying that I dont put much value in reviews - think there a waste of paper in the mags, JMO, but maybe you dont think thats my option to voice.
I can go to Woodsmith store in Des Moines and try one for free so ...........
That should clear up all the questions.
Well I guess if you say so it must be
Doug
Go try one and quit your whining for good.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
It is in remo work that the MM shines. I can't imagine - after trying to for five minutes - a use for it in new work
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I can't imagine - after trying to for five minutes - a use for it in new work
Not all my work is new so maybe I'll get the chance! I dont sell off many tools so it'll be there when I need it.
I thought it would be used more but so far just the one time.
Doug
It is in remo work that the MM shines. I can't imagine - after trying to for five minutes - a use for it in new workI know you only tried for 5 mins, but maybe it's been a while since you've done new work...we call fixing stuff then "pre-modeling" <G> We can hang doors without knowing what the flooring thickness is at the time, and just zip the jambs later with a scrap spacer, when it finally shows up. Cut flex trim in place, cut out cabineted over outlets, nip off door shims (yes, I still use them, silly I know), and the little sucker will sand in some pretty tight places, among other things.Then there's the weird stuff, like cutting bracing back under a cabinet so a soap stone sink will really drop in, re-sawing cabinet rail so a drop-in range actually drops in, enlarging holes for outlets when the granite backsplash cutouts don't exactly line up, or enlarging dadoes for a slid in glass shelf...but, you're right it REALLY shines in remo<G>Of course, I'm also the guy who told Doug U I could find 1000 uses for the Domino...til I found out the sample pack of tenons costs 200 beans...yoiks! Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
OK, If I had the MM out and laying there, I would find more to do with it too. I routinely use my Bosch flush cut saw for undercutting door jambs, and some of those other things I would do with my utility knife, but you are right - I haven't done new work in so long that I'm not sure how it goes any more
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm hoping at my estate sale they mention "only used once" to solicite a better price.
I just had to reply to that. But First:
as I get older and closer to retirement I catch myself having to justify it a little more!
Don't worry. You'll keep buying tools. I have been officially retired for five years now, although I have periodically worked for various reasons, most of them irrational.
I just bought the Ridgid Contractor Table Saw yesterday. When I rebuild my kitchen, I want to try working with a better saw. I added a wet/dry 12 gal vac to get the $549 price over $600 to get my $125 tool discount. Last month, I spent about $1000 on a PC drywall sander, vac, and some accessories. I hate drywall sanding and decided to make it easy on myself. I have also bought other tools this year, such as about $1000 in routers and accessories. The list goes on.
Only two things give me pause as I keep buying tools. First, I don't want to get the wife mad at me for wasting funds. Second, I know that, considering how I take care of my tools, all of them will still be around long after I am gone. It actually feels more like I am borrowing them than buying them. There is going to be one hell of an estate auction when I kick the bucket.
Other than the fact that I like to work with excellent tools, my reason for spending all this money is that each tool makes my work easier, faster, and better. When you get to the age where you finally understand that you are going to die and that the time is even in the best case not that far off, it becomes important to maybe be able to do 30 projects instead of 20 and with less irritation about inferior tools.
I couldn't of said it better, I too am reciently retired and working again. Buying tools is my way of staying young, gotta stick around so I can get the new off of them before my kids run off with them.
I beg to differ the joint with biscuits is far weaker than that with the domino. Look at the thickness of the domino tenons, orders of magnitude stronger. Biscuits will swell and telegraph their placement in ply, domino tenons swell very little, you will need pliers to pull them out if you use the closest fit setting.
I assembled a hand rail the other day, solid with one 10x50 tenon although I would run a pocket screw in the back side to pull the pieces together unless you can make a clamp to hold them. Parts DO NOT move when joined with a Domino tenon, so you do have to be very careful or make a jig (politically correct is "fixture") to hold the piece so you can drill exactly in each one. Let me say the parts will move in the long direction (if you set the cutter to +5 or +10mm slop), but not in the right angle, the tenon fits too snug. For casement the documents recommend the first hole to be zero clearance and the remaining to be either +5 or +10 for "easy alignment".
The document show making drawers, miters with and with out locking tenons. I will try to attach the uses manual here.
Yes it is damn expensive but I think it will last a very long time and in the end allow me to do many things much faster and easier. Besides I am not happy sending my money to China for tools.
What's wrong with the term "Jig"?Never heard of any problem with that...JT
Hmm, when you work like I did for 33 years for a very large computer company some words are not said. We were told it was not a good way to prolong your employment to make any non PC comments. Do you mean you have not had your "diversity" seminar this year? <G> We had that along with electical, chemical, hearing, lifting and safe driving each year and were tested as well. Gee I miss that.
I beg your pardon?
Don Imus just got "suspended" from his MSNBC show for saying "nappy haired hos," and I suspect if he had used the "j" word, he'd a been drawn and quartered.
;-)
I'm as sensitive as the next guy -hell, my wife is Af. American, but I've never heard any reference the the word jig as being racially or otherwise insensitive.JT
FWIW Julian, in my neck of the woods it was a very common ummm... perjorative for African Americans, especially for some reason among my many friends of Italian descent.
(Whew... hope I worded all of that properly).PaulB
I never heard of it that way either
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You just have to spend more time with ... nevermind. Who needs more "perjoratives" in their vocabulary?
http://www.bartleby.com/61/12/J0041250.html
PaulB
I'm not even sure how to pronounce perjorative
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This whole conversation reminds of the scene in ClerksII, which I just watched the other day.Funny a** movie! Anyways, they had a scene in the fast food joint where the smartass guy mentions "Po**ch M***k*y - and people go hog wild - and he's like, "what??!! - we used to call each other that when we were little...."He's a white guy and for the rest of the movie he refers to it by saying "I'm taking it back!" meaning - he's taking back the phrase so he can continue to include it in his repertoire.Funny movie!I guess I should just have better names for the jigs I make, like "Special holder for the wood that the drill press positions and cuts", Or, " special holder for wood to be held while cutting".I've been told I'm less than sensitive - maybe that's why I'm in the middle of a divorce.
Or, could be cause she's absolutely crazy...JT
Julian
but I've never heard any reference the the word jig as being racially or otherwise insensitive.
The term "jig-a-boo" is a derogatory term for blacks that is widely known around here, call it a regional thing, or maybe a cracker/redneck thing. Either way its not meant as an endearing comment.
I dont think the term "jig" would raise anyones eyebrows if spoken in the context that its meant to be used.
Doug
Now I have heard the term jig-a-boo - but would have never connected it to the simple term "jig".Maybe you guys have heard these. My wife (soon to be ex, thank god!) says that the term picnic is no good - something about picking a _______... never heard of that either.And, she says that the term dreadlocks was made up from the white man saying they look dreadful. That may well be - they don't look that great on her, but then you hear every other black person saying it - so maybe they need to get their stories straight.Sensitivities be damned - I'm still going on picnics...JT
Don't worry about picnicing Julian...
http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.htm
PaulB
Now I have heard the term jig-a-boo - but would have never connected it to the simple term "jig".
No I wouldnt either but I'm sure if your standing around with a bunch of dinks and the racial slurs abound then maybe a conection could be made.
I've heard about the word "picnic" but never knew why.
Strange world we live in
Doug
"I dont think the term "jig" would raise anyones eyebrows if spoken in the context that its meant to be used."With the politically correct crowd and the professional insult victims who abound in our society, any innocent word usage is likely to be attacked. Remember when a staff member of the mayor of Wash DC called some budget item a "niggardly amount"? He was pilloried by black activists who had no idea what that old Norse-derived word meant. He was forced to resign because of the ignorance of others.I wouldn't be surprised if hikers who go for treatment of chigger bites will be called racist and admonished to refer to the little critters as "Tick-Americans".
BruceT
that kind of behaviour abounds right here at BT too.in one of my very frist posts at BT way back when Iwas describing an incident when I was working for a Jewish contractor. I had absolutely no animosity or prejudice whatsoevertowards Jews and used it in the same sense of equality that I would have had it been a coloured contractor, a Polish contractor, a female contractor, a rich contractor or a one-armed contractor.But the thread degenerated andcontinued for another couple hundred posts with me defending myself against those who saw fit to castigate me for what they percieved in their own small minds.
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that I would have had it been a coloured contractor
What color were they!
Doug
What color were they!
they very best...
green or platinum...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I didn't realize "jig" was offensive.I'll have to start referring to all my absurd nameless unusual setups by something else.If I could only come up with an anacronym...
how about A.S.S.Absurd Shop SetupsThat shouldn't upset anyone
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With the politically correct crowd and the professional insult victims who abound in our society, any innocent word usage is likely to be attacked.
that about says it all regarding our society and PC'dness!
I was going to go into teaching for a brief moment but soon figured that I dont play well with society and some of its social rules so decided that I probably wouldnt last more then one month had I choosen that path.
Its all just an excuse to be offended by someone we dont care for.
I dont think Imus made a brilliant career move with his comments, and they were out of line but by publicly tar and feathering him are we really going to change his mind? I'd rather hear a persons real thoughts then their politically correct thoughts.
Doug
AT the risk of gunner getting his shorts in a knot I'm going to respond on this thread! I'd think he could find something else to do but..........maybe I'm just begging here!
Biscuits will swell and telegraph their placement in ply
What are you doing, placeing the biscuit right below the surface? I've never seen that happen and I've been joining ply with biscuits for over 12 years now. I have to use pliers to pull biscuits out as well, try putting glue on one and pushing it into the hole, leave it there for 5 min. You wont pull it out either. *** Maybe your talking using pliers even without the glue*** - which is obviously pretty strong, but I've had dry fitting biscuits that dont come out very easy either, I assume its because the've swelled some already.
The document show making drawers, miters with and with out locking tenons. I will try to attach the uses manual here.
I've seen those pictures/demos and they look like a very good idea. I have access to a horizontal boring machine in the shop, I think you can drill some 20 holes at a time with it if you chose. I hate the machine but that said it is still much faster then the domino. I can make a drawer with all the dowel holes in it in about 30 seconds, or less. I'm not a fan of dowels but they are the same thing when you analize the joints. Dominos are just two conjoined dowels!
Yes it is damn expensive but I think it will last a very long time and in the end allow me to do many things much faster and easier.
I've never let the cost of a tool interfear with my purchasing it. A good tool is well worth the "extra" money. I've said over and over that I can only assume that the domino is a very good tool based solely on the maker. I havent seen any of Festools stuff that I didnt think was first rate.
Hell I'm waiting for the Festool compond miter saw to get here(to the US, or at least my tool store) so I can see it. I look at all the miter saws out there as lacking something special and maybe Festool has filled that void.
Look I'm not trying to talk anybody out of buying the domino. This whole thing with me and the domino started when I discounted Gary Katz's review of the tool because hes a paid Festool guy. I'm not necessarily knocking him for that I'm just sayiing that as someone that gets paid buy a tool manufacturer that I personally dont take there word for anything they say regarding that tool.
Maybe the domino is the next best thing since the air nailers, I dont know, I just dont see the need for it, thats not to say that I will never have one or never have the use for one, I just dont see it right now.
but who knows, maybe I'm just whinning here, right gunner!
As for the jig comment, I think even Immus calls fixtures jigs so it must be PC!
Doug
"Maybe the domino is the next best thing since the air nailers, I dont know, I just dont see the need for it, thats not to say that I will never have one or never have the use for one, I just dont see it right now."
Any amateur shrink can tell that you want it real bad. :) Go ahead. You don't have to tell anyone. Just get it and keep it a secret. ;)
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Just get it and keep it a secret. ;)
I'm starting to lean that way
Actually went on E-bay last night to see if there were any there. $660 and its all mine!
Doug
Next month there will be some shmuck that can't follow directions unloading it way cheaper. Hold out. LOL
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Ebay is the worst place for anything festool. I check there from time to time but there is never anything worth it. Ebay is a weird little world were people get screwed in a particular auction but think they are getting a great deal because its an auction. A jig saw thats a few years old but hardly used sold for something like $250 recently. You can get a new one with the full 3 year warranty for $280, ditto other auctions. Ebay is a great place for something but festool is not one of them.
Ebay is wierd so anything can happen!
I know there are some things that just dont make sense but I always keep an eye out.
Trying to find a truck on there right now. I dont like buying new and I hate going to lots for them. Got my last one on ebay and have had good luck with it so .............
Doug
This whole thing with me and the domino started when I discounted Gary Katz's review of the tool because hes a paid Festool guy. I'm not necessarily knocking him for that I'm just sayiing that as someone that gets paid buy a tool manufacturer...Doug,Has that been proven to be a fact, or is that just your conspiratal theory? You present it as a fact, and I don't think I've ever seen anything to make me believe Gary was anything but honest and un-biased whenever I've read his reviews.Even his responses in this thread were those of someone that has nothing to prove or push - just someone who enjoys sharing his findings and knowledge to those that care to read them.Obviously you care not to, but that doesn't make your theories of bias stand up as factual basis.As for Biscuits being as strong as biscuits - try jointing a 48" panel with biscuits and then with Dominos and assemble them before glueup - the biscuit panel wll be all wambly loosey, and the domino panel - without glue- will be a hell of a lot tighter.Sounds like my buddy who has one of those Dewalt 16ga cordless guns. He uses it for everything - even those situations when a 15 ga or a brad gun would do the job better - he's convinced it serves his every need. And it does - for him - but, that doesn't make him right about the end quality result of his jobs - they would be better served by different tools. He's just another old dog that can't see ahead of himself enough to realize how the quality and efficiency of the jobs he does could be improved by the use of different tools. Sheet - he's still using a 4' level & string in laying out framing for basement remodels - I wouldn't do another basement without my rotary laser - but then I'm lazy!My name is Julian and I have a serious tool buying problem...Regards,
JT
Has that been proven to be a fact, or is that just your conspiratal theory?
Maybe "paid" is a strong word but payment doesnt have to come in the form of cash.
Gary did say that Festool sponsered his "Educate the Carpenters of the World" tour. So I take it to mean that they pay him. As I said, payment can come in other forms then cash.
You can take Gary Katz at his word, dont really make one bit of difference to me. I'm not trying to sway you to my side of the fence, just offered up my opinion, same as you. I believe that when a manufacturer provides someone with part of their livelyhood they will get some compensation from that. I'm done talking about Gary Katz. You follow whoever you want and I'll do the same.
As for Biscuits being as strong as biscuits - try jointing a 48" panel with biscuits and then with Dominos and assemble them before glueup - the biscuit panel wll be all wambly loosey, and the domino panel - without glue- will be a hell of a lot tighter.
I assume you meant biscuits being as strong as dominos. I just recently joined a 46" and 20" wide sheet of MDF with biscuits using tight joints - the tight joints are so that I dont have to clamp the two pieces together(takes about the same time to put the tight joints in as it does to clamp so that part is a wash). I can glue it up and set it aside to move on to the next one. I dont know how strong that same joint would have been with the domino, I assume equally as strong and if you've done it and you say its stronger then I have no reason to doubt you. The other thing about my joint with the biscuits, there is no way in hell its comming apart, probably true of your joint, yes?
the biscuit panel wll be all wambly loosey, and the domino panel - without glue- will be a hell of a lot tighter
But who really gives a damn how strong it is without the glue? I'm conserned about the final results.
He's just another old dog that can't see ahead of himself enough to realize how the quality and efficiency of the jobs he does could be improved by the use of different tools.
Julian, where do you come up with this sh!d? Is there any place on here or any other forum where you have read that I'm still nailing my stuff together with # 8 brights. I invest heavily in new tools. Because I dont believe everything that I read or see then somehow I'm in the dark ages? And that statement doesnt have anything to do with the festool.
Get a grip on yourself man, you seam to think because I dont subscribe to your methods that somehow I'm being left in your dust, very doubtful that thats going to happen anytime to soon.
Last Friday I went and had my taxes done - my 05 and 06, dont ask about the 05, I'm a well known prcrastonator! For 05 I had $4650 in tool purchases, for 06 I had slightly less, $4300. So far this year I'm sure I've spent over a grand or two. I'm constantly upgrading/evolving with my style of doing things but I dont feel compelled to keep up with you, and for some reason thats bothering you, why?
Doug
I thought I'd stick my head in the door here for a minute.Correct me if this sounds wrong, but to my thinking, the biscuit never did seem like any kind of a strengthening of a joint. Maybe some extra surface for glue when matching endgrain to edgegrain does ad strength.But I always thought of biscuits as just an alignment guide when joining and clamping.but the dominos are solid stout wood and I'd think of them in the same terms as tenons for real strength and maintaining integrity through a range of motion stresses such as in doors or gates.as an aside - I think cope and stick joints are fine too for most cabinet doors. I have had only one fail me - one of the first I ever did and it was under a sink where iot got a lot of water and of useage. but the fault was probably mine from not enough glue or from squeezing too much of it out or from poor milling and inexperience....
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"Correct me if this sounds wrong, but to my thinking, the biscuit never did seem like any kind of a strengthening of a joint. Maybe some extra surface for glue when matching endgrain to edgegrain does ad strengthEither some where on the Kreg pocket hole site or one of their manuels they list the strengths of the different methods. I did a quick search but couldn't find it again. If I remember correctly, biscuits add a moderate amount of strength but no where near tenons or pocket screws.
Piffin
Your right, I think of the biscuit jointer as more of an aligner then a holder! But I'm sure it does do some holding.
Way back when there was a test in FWW using the biscuit jointer, dowels and a few other methods to hold a 5 piece door together. I dont remember all the details but the biscuits didnt do all that bad in the test. I'd have to dig out the article to refresh my memory on the subject.
I'd assume that you and Julian are correct that the dominos will hold better then the biscuit, it stands to reason. Now I gotta stop thinking that the domino is so good or I'll have to go and buy one!
Doug
I think it would not do any harm at all for you to reconsider your thinking on that post.
Biscuits for just alignment?
No extra strength by having a biscuit in there?
OK, I thought about it.The bisquit probably adds five percent in strength.Happy now?
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I tremble at the thought of contradicting The Oracle but...
I distinctly remember an article in FWW (I think) a few years back where they tested biscuits and found they were indeed very strong. I've tried breaking them off (biscuits that is) once or ummm twice due to ummm... assembly issues and usually wind up cutting them off. I actually find them rather poor for alignment until they're swollen (again referring to biscuits).PaulB
Who's an Oracle?
I remember watching an episode of New Yankee workshop last year and Norm was gluing up a table top. He said that he used to use biscuits for this but he has found out years later that where the biscuits are they develop little dents after the wood shrinks. I think that's the way I remember it. He may have been talking about a particular species of wood also.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Infidel... "Who is an Oracle?" There is only one true Oracle (just in case I'm wrong).
The article I'm referring to compared (IIRC) a few types of joints and the biscuited joint (again IIRC) ranked very nearly as strong as M&T. I'm 99% sure it was FWW and maybe 3 years back. I'll try to scrounge it up.PaulB
I remember that article.I thought the biscuit-to-stile/rail joint itself did not fail, but the actual piece of wood that made up the stile or rail was where the failure occured.Biscuits add a heckuva lot of strength to a joint.As to whomever mentioned the wood shrinking and forming a depression around the biscuit, I think the reference was to Norm on New Yankee Workshop? My understanding is that the biscuit absorbs moisture form the glue and the biscuit swells a bit, "clamping" the joint tight while the glue cures. Not literally, but figuratively.If the biscuit swells much, it can displace the surface of the stile/rail upwards a bit. During this upward displacement, if you then sand the joint flat, when the glue cures and the initial swelling subsides the once swollen joint, then sanded flat joint, now has a slight depression in it.I do a lot of poplar face frames, or poplar stile/rail doors, and have never had that problem.Mongo
I've suffered those biscuit-phantoms when doing tabletops and other pieces like that. I used to fully-glue the biscuit slots with a special nozzle before biscuit insertion, but now use the biscuits strictly for alignment in wide-panel glueups, and only glue the mating edges of boards.
I couldn't agree more. I read the same article and don't know where. but I no longer put glue into the slots."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
It might have been something like that. I remember he was referring to some flat boards he was going to glue together to make a table top. I'm thinking it was going to be for a table that was going to be outside.
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Here's the article:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2712
PaulB
I don't remember getting those kind of shadows around biscuits either. Maybe Norm uses specially extra dry wood so it re-acts more to the modest amt of moisture in the glue.
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I give up. Maybe the search engine will help.
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
I see Gunner has questioned your embarassing titlement for me.
Oh well.I am not arguing that bisquits don't add strength. I was only meaning to say that my impression has always been that it does not add much, coming from a background of doweling and mortise/tenon joints.I have also done flat edge joinery with glue that would be strong enough that the wood needed to be broken or cut before it separated. So my main point was that My Own Opinion was that the biscuits didn't add that much to it. They did make it far easier to align things though, so from my POPV, that is why I used them much of the time.I won't argue with any objective testing at all.now that that is behind us - I'll go on to re-emphasize that I do think a dowel or mortise or the Domino does add a lot of strength, especially at end grain joints.
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I know you only said it in order to encourage us to research the subject more fully for ourselves, Oracle.
Thank you...PaulB
Your the Oracle? Cool now the guessing game is over.
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Not my claim, but a title that he has applied to my reasoning, insight, and all around good looks
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
ok
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Of course every Oracle needs some vestal virgins. What say we form the organizing committee and talk those volleyball players into auditioning?
Female volleyball players are my kryptonite man.
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Bunch of tall women in bikinis? Nope, can't see how you'd be distracted by something like that.
I'm weird aint I?
Who dares, wins.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
That can't be right. Nobody calls me that!
Yes, P, I am happy.
I just didn't want to throw away my two biscuit joiners because some new kid is on the block. My DeWalt biscuit joiner has served me well, although rarely, for over ten years. I have only used my Ryobi mini biscuit joiner a few times over the same period, but I like what it does. I recently used the Ryobi to cut some channels into a 1X4 shelf support to add a clothes hanging rod. I don't think they even sell it anymore.
The old dog I was referring to was my friend - not you. I'm sure you are much more on the cutting edge of tool purchases compared to this guy - and for the record, you are right - to each their own.The only dust I'm leaving around is the dust I'm still working in cause I'm not too fast my own bad self.My point was that there have been a ton of discussions here and elswhere with folks stating that it wasn't any better than than a standard bisuit jointer, and that is probably not at all true.For edge jointing, I'm sure it's quite a bit better, but the main point is that it's a jointer and so much more than that in it's versatility in making woodworking joints.But WTF do I know - haven't pulled the trigeger on it myself yet - anybody want to buy my biscuit jointer and Delta mortiser to make it an easier decision?This is starting to sound like an EZ/Festool thread, so I'll officially butt out - no offense intended to you personally Doug.Festool is probably loving the fact that there are hundreds of forum threads going where folks are getting their panties in a bunch about their latest and greatest. My panties are now officially un-bunched.Regards,Julian
No I didnt think the old dog you were refering to was me but I thought you were making an example/comparison of my way of thinking to your friend.
If this thread or any other one starts to sound like EZ Vs. Festool I'm outta hear!
After I hit the post button to Piffin I did come up with a good example where the domino would do a superior job then the biscuit.
This just popped into my head and thats sorta scareing me!
Piffin mentioned the biscuit jointer in a traditional cabinet door assembly. I dont use biscuits in that application but when I make doors with mitered frames as opposed to stick and cope I biscuit the miter before assmebly. I've always questioned this practice but for lack of a better method I use the biscuit.
Here is one example of the domino making a far superior fastener then the biscuit. I cant imagine that joint ever coming apart, for one the domino would be at an angle to the normal seperation of the joint. Second, the domino would obviously have better holding power because of its physical makeup.
So there! I've actually came up with one example that I think the domino is a far better choice then the biscuit (gunner will be so proud of me for my "vision") and I'm sure there are more. If I keep this up I''ll own one of those damn things before the month is out!
I'm seriously not trying to turn this into some "my way is better and your way sucks" but I do have to convince myself that a deal is a deal and the cost of the tool is justified. I'm a tool junkie just as much as the next guy but there still has to be a method to the madness.
Doug
I think it looks like a very well thought out and useful too especially for furniture, not so sure about site work. The only thing i'm not crazy about is the limited size of mortise that can be cut. The largest domino is only 1" wide. I make loose tenones wider than that all the time.
I have a slot mortiser (very similisa to the multi router) already so the domino doesn't amke much sense for me. I like being able to make my tenon stock to fit the piece, not having to deal with the preset sizes available. If I didn't already have a slot mortise I would be pretty interested in it.
You sure your not a plant sent by Festool? Pretty genius plan you guys cooked up.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
See I got vision!
Suckers!
Pretty dang clever.
So what's your job? Sit on a fence post and crow like a Rooster when the Sheriff shows up?
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
clever
I'm often mistaken for that!
Now you have just helped me with something!
Most of our shaker style cabinet doors use a bead at edge which we usually apply after door assembly. Doors are glued up with square joints and bead applied.with a mitred joint and dominos we could mill the door stock with the bead on and save a lot of buckeroniis
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Piffin
Heres an example of a mitered shaker door. Well it has the added roping on the inside but it has the cockbeading on the perimeter.
Also a pic of a mitered door using the traditional stick cutters to capture by themselves, yes much easier to do all in one as opposed to after the door is made!
both of these have biscuits but I'd rather they have a domino. Of course the domino is going to be problematic when glueing up because of the angle that they would be put in at but you have to make some sacrifices for the betterment of the door.
Doug
Hi Doug, beautiful cabinets. Did you take a look at the users guide pdf I posted a couple of days ago? Pretty good description of how to use the miter function and also a locking miter. The three way locking tenon looks interesting also.
On some site, I have not had the chance to verify because I am presently not doing any panel layups the poster said that due to the tight fit of the tenon the top of a panel/table etc is registered much better than with biscuits. I have noticed as well as the rest of us some panel creep when I clamp up panels, (or maybe it is just me as I am a beginning wood worker for the last 10 years or so)
BTW if you can't find the pdf I would be glad to repost it.
Jim.
BTW if you can't find the pdf I would be glad to repost it.
Jim, I dont think it was there! Yes, please repost it.
Thanks
Doug
Domino PDF Users Guide 24 pages.
When I try to post I get the following message
Sorry, an error has occurred (ID: 003-101-72505) Please try your request again
Tried 3x
Send a email to [email protected] and I will send the pdf directly.
Jim
Thanks,I do mostly polar paint grade work here and the seasonal movement is the only thing that still scares me about mitred joints.
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and the seasonal movement is the only thing that still scares me about mitered joints.
Its a major concern for me as well. I'd rather not use the miter technique for doing cabinet doors but sometimes the customer wants what they want!
That's why I'm thinking the domino would be a better solution to holding those miters in place. I wonder what the large cabinet shops use to hold theirs together?
Along the same lines as what Gene posted to you, I like to add the cockbeading directly to the frame (pic attached), seams to work better for me and I like the look much more, often times what I like is of no concern to the customer though!
Doug
Inside beaded face frames? How much is a lot, and how do you justify making them, when you can buy them to your size specs, loose and ready for Dominoing, or already put together from Walzcraft, Keystone, and others.
View Image
Those inside beaded face frames are hard to do efficiently in the shop. Many of them are done with a guillotine type cutter. Very slick way to do them if you want to go into production.
I can't see how the domino or any other hand held machine could help speed the up much. The inside beading would still need to be applied after the face frame is glued up or the corners would need to be mitered which would't work at the mid frame. Beaded doors would be sped up considerably though.The local machinery dealer sell this machine line http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/htm/beaded_face_frames/morso_nfl.htm Very slick setup.
Edited 4/11/2007 12:52 pm ET by TomW
Edited 4/11/2007 12:55 pm ET by TomW
That post I made was off-thread, actually. It was meant to question the economy of making the frames versus buying them.
I was not talking about the frame and its bead as two pieces, but rather, the frame made with an integrally molded bead.
With the jack miter required at stile/rail joints, I doubt whether the Domino could successfully plunge a mortise into the "female" side of the joint, without Festool having a special nose for the machine.
That's what I meant by not being able to do the efficiently in the shop. A one piece beaded frame need a lot of small miters cut on the stiles where each rail meets. I don't know of a good way to do that efficiently other than a guillotine cutter specially designed for that purpose. The actual joining of the parts, be it by biscuit or domino would be the easy part of the operation.
Tom
I did a set of kitchen cabs for a couple that wanted the cockbeading around the doors but the door style that they chose didn't allow me to bead the outer perimeter so I did it the old fashioned way, bead the frame. I don't think I'd bead a true stick and cope door around the perimeter for fear the expansion/contraction thing would cause problems. Pic attachment of how I did mine.
I made a series of jigs that I could pass over my table saw that would make all my miters for the style and rail matting. Then I just took a sharp chisel and made a plunge cut to shear off the waste, then pocket screwed the FF together, worked like a charm.
Gary Katz has a pretty good way of doing the same thing using a router and plowing the area out where the rail meets the style. I don't recall all the details but it looked like a good idea. I think it was something that you could spend a little more time making but something that you'd have forever. Mine was more a set-up thing.
Doug
We rarely have individual boxes with face frames Gene. We will have an assembly so the face frame looks like the old built in place work
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And those outfits I mentioned will make them as large as you can imagine them, dead nuts, excellent graining selections, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Have you a copy of Walzcraft's full line catalog?
I'd check with the customers first...Mitered doors may not be considered true Shaker style.I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
with biscuits using tight joints - the tight joints are so that I don't have to clamp the two pieces together
What are tight joints using biscuits and how do you make them to avoid using clamping pressure?
Thanks,
Bruce
Bruce
Tight joints are those things that countertops are fastened together with. Some people call them dog bones, I assume there are other names for them as well.
I have a template/jig that I screw down to the back side of the two pieces that I want to tightjoint together, route the slot out on each side and put the tight joint in and with a 7/16" wrench tighten it up, no need for clamping.
If my discription isnt clear enough I'll take a picture for you when I'm at work tomarrow.
Doug
Yes, your description is very clear.
Thanks,
Bruce
I also have wanted to see larger tenons from Festool for things like entry doors. Maybe they will introduce the DOORMINO jumbo model in another year.Lamello makes a jumbo biscuit that my Dewalt joiner can cut slots for. It takes two plunges per slot. They make a very strong joint. #20 biscuits are also very strong when done correctly.The depressions at the biscuits are IMO caused by sanding/planing too soon after glue-up, before the wood has had a chance to equalize moisture levels. Simple edge glue-ups can have this problem even without splines, simply from the glue's water swelling the wood at the joint. In Colorado I gave them 24 hours before thicknessing, and had no problems. It also helps to scrape the excess Titebond off before it is fully dry. Those globs hold moisture and impede the drying of the joint interior.Bill
Julian,sounds like you have a bad case of tool fever......... <G>But, you're a clever guy, and if anyone can think of uses for the Domino that elude the rest of us, you're the person who can.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thanks.I'd never consider making my own tenon stock. That's the beauty of the system. Use what they have, go fast, go accurate.If I didn't have a biscuit joiner, if I didn't have several 1000 piece boxes of biscuits, if I needed the ability to do blind joinery smaller than the biscuit joiner can do...then I'd really think about it.Well, I'm already thinking about it...so I guess I should say I'd be closer top pulling the trigger. But as others have mentioned, it'd take the right kind of project where I could really put it to use and see some real and immediate benefit from it.My biscuit jointer is still my friend. For now, and for the forseeable future.And it's $1000 more that I already have saved for the kids' college tuition!Mongo
I've looked at it pretty carefully, and I concluded it would be most useful to those who do mortise/tenon joints like furniture makers (esp. for chairs, tables). I can see where it might be useful for stair builders; but I don't see many applications for trim carps or cabinetmakers. Even if you are building casework on-site, I would think a biscuit joiner would work just as well as a Domino. OTOH, it might be like a Fein Multimaster. Once you have one, you can dream up all kind of uses for it. But right now, I can't see what they would be. ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
No arguments from me with that post.Bicuits serve me well for plank glue-ups, cabinet face frame construction, and some stile/rail butt joints for small door assembly.
How hard is it to change the router bit in the domino for the different sized tennons?
Thanks, Dan
To change the bit.
1. Unplug the tool
2. Take the wrench in the tool kit and flip up the release with the jaw of the wrench.
3. Remove the motor unit from the front assembly.
4 Hold the motor lock and with free hand unscrew the bit with the same wrench to flip up the release.
If you are slow the first time will take maybe 30 seconds.
Here I have been saving up to purchase my very first biscuit joiner - a Porter Cable to use on "projects in planning" around the house. Now this do hicky called Domino by Festool comes on the market. With the entire blitz about the thing it makes me feel like I am going to go out and purchase an outdated dinosaur. Then once I saw how expensive the thing costs it, 1) caused a ‘brown streak’ to appear and 2) made me wonder if a Bolshevik type uprising was in order. Talk about pricing the average homeowner out of the market!
Will still probably get the P/C biscuit joiner; but it sure makes me feel like I am purchasing something outdated. It’s either that or go and get a Kreg pocket hole system.
Will it ever end??? Meet me in the 'Tavern.'
I won't try to dissuade you from getting a pocket hole kit (they're awesome) - but that PC biscuit joiner is a really nice little tool, you will be pleased with it. And it's not a dinosaur.
By the way...where is Dinosaur (T.H.)? Haven't seen him posting on here in a while...Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Thanks for the encouragement. Now if I could only lay at the feet of Gary Katz and obtain every tool that he has and have his knowledge...it would be like...wow!
Here's a good start: http://www.garymkatz.comJustin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
I'd say it's good timing - most of the folks buying the Domino system will be selling their biscuit jointers.You should be able to pick up PC557's for $125 all day long used - and given the nature of the tool - none of them will have been used hard. I'd have no problem buying a biscuit jointer used because of that reason.I'm still talking myself into the Domino - and first thing I'll do is to sell my PC557 and my Delta morticer - make you a package deal!If you do buy one of the 557's used - do a bit of checking - there was apparently an issue with some of the models - not sure if it was the type 1's, 2's, or 3's but they eventually fixed whatever it was so a little research will possibly get you a better quality tool.I have the first incarnation of it - I think it had something to do with a patent violation and PC had to change the models to follow the legal decision maybe - not really sure.They'll know on Wood.netJT
For 700 bones you can build a damn nice router based slot mortise that is just as accurate and ar more versatile than the domino. I built one a few years ago and wouldn't trade it for the domino. I just finished cuttiing about 120 mortices all wider and deeper than the largest domino, all perfectly aligned. Totaol time including setup and layout was under and hour. Actual ctuuing time was more like 15 minutes.
My mortiser can cut up to 11" side to side, 9" vertically, and depth is only limited by the router bit being used. I have cut mortises as deep as 3". Even using good quality linear bearings I'm pretty sure I could build a very nice machine for $700. Mine also has the ability to do anlged mortises as well.
You cut 120 mortises in 15 minutes? Impressive. I think comparing the domino to a router based setup is kind of apple and oranges, don't you think? This is a self contained, jobsite tool that can fit in your truck. I have an Inca mortising table as well, but I don't think comparing the two is neccessary. Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?Technique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
My mortising machine is as portable as a small router table or jobsite tablesaw. If the price were closer to that of a biscuit joiner or something I would say it is apples and oranges but for that much money it's not hard to get a much more versatile setup.
I do think the domino looks like a very nice machine and would probably consider it if I wasn't already spoiled with the machine I have.
Just offering up that there are other options to consider that work very well.
Looks like I was a little optimistic on the ttime to cut the mortises. I had another 24 to cut that were the same size so I timed it this time. Just under 4 minutes for all 24 mortises. They were all 1 3/16" wide 1 1/8 deep with a 3/8 router bit. That's about 10 seconds per mortise. Material was pine , a hardwood like cherry or maple takes a little longer but not much.
I can post some pics if anyone is interested.
Tom,That's still pretty impressive. I'd love to see pics of your setup.Hope I didn't come off as a d*ck, not my intention...-KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Here are a couple shots of it. I built it using linear bearings salvages from an old cnc plotter that I salvaged from a dumpster. The aluminum table tilts and Ican make custom jigs that bolt to the table for odd shaped pieces.
There are stops that can be set for all three axis and I have a stylus that can be attached to follow the templates made for the multirouter.
If I were to build another I would probably use 80/20 aluminum hardware for the frame and possibly their linear guides. Could pobably do that for under 500.00.
This machine has really opened up a lot of possibilities as far as joinery.
View Image
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Edited 4/15/2007 6:03 pm ET by TomW
Thanks for the tip. With Festool having introduced the Domino, I did not give it much consideration that individuals - such as yourself - might be selling their Porter Cable biscuit cutters. I am open to hear how much you are willing to part with yours.I will check Wood.net to find out any history on the PC.Then maybe - like most technologically new items - Festool with recover whatever R&D costs they expended and drop the price of the tool eventually. But I won't hold my breath on that one. Interesting how a little tool like that one costs more than a Bosch table saw or about the same as a contractor's table saw.Thanks again.