Replies

1. 
   RichBeckman | Dec 28, 2004 02:11am | #1

   5. There are many here (including myself) who have the Rigid miter saw stand. We all seem to like it. My miter saw is a 10" Makita and it has only two places for screwing to the stand. I had to add some large washers to the bolts to prevent the thin surface of the stand from bending. I guess that the larger saws accomodate four bolts and that the weight distribution is less stressful.

   6. Not that I have much experience at this, but if the base is already off and the floor is about to be refinished, installing the base before the refinishing just seems a bit looney to me, no offense intended.

   Rich Beckman

   Another day, another tool.

1. 
   BillW | Dec 28, 2004 06:10am | #5

   All - Thanks for the quick responses!  First thing I learned tonight is to NOT number my questions ... let's see, number 5 was ????

   OK, let me reply to everyone at once:

   1.  MDF trim seems to be the cheapest way to go

   2.  Jamb extensions - I wasn't very clear on this - the amount I have to extend the jambs varies from one window to the next, from one side of the window to the other, and from the top to the bottom of some of the jambs.  Arghh.  As much as I'd love to custom rip each piece, I don't think I would keep my sanity in the process.  Thus the idea from a post last summer:

   33520.7 in reply to 33520.1 

   ... To a small easy to handle router, install a sharp 3/4" mortice bit and add a piece of 1/2" plywood to less than half the base. The edge of the plywood should be just beside the bit. The bottom of the cutter should be even with the plywood. Nail the extensions (with reveal!) deep enough to stick out past the drywall a 1/4" or so and set the nails deep. The plywood rides the drywall........

   I'm varying this slightly, using hot melt glue instead of deeply set nails - I'll nail the extension after I cut it.  I also may leave the jamb extension a little proud of the plaster surface.

   I'll let you know how it works out - it has all the makings of one of my disasters, but it's the best idea I've seen (plan B involved a power planar)

   3.  Thanks for the help on the nails / brads - 2- 2 1/2 nails for the base and casing-into-wall, 1 inch brads for the casing into the jambs.  Got it. (and Woohoo, I get to use BOTH new guns).

   4.  Yeah ... Craftsman ... I know ... but then again, I've used a Craftsman table saw and Radial Arm saw for 25 years, and got a ton of mileage from them.  In fact, I would drag the Radial over there for this job if it wasn't so $%^& heavy.

   5. It does seem odd to spend $150 for a stand - maybe I'll rethink that - get a 2x10 and throw it on sawhorses.

   6.  No way I'm putting down quarter-round, so I guess I'll hold off on the base until the floors are done - they're coming Monday, but it may take me that long to do the windows anyhow.  This is a rental - I peeled up self-stick tiles and was surprised to find some half-way decent fir floors.  I had budgeted for carpeting, but repairing and refinishing the floors will be much cheaper, and I think if they come out reasonably decent it will make the place rent faster.  We'll see.

   Thanks!  Bill.

    

    

1. 
   PhillGiles | Dec 28, 2004 07:07am | #6

   Not ¼ round, shoe: differernt profile..
   Phill Giles
   The Unionville Woodwright
   Unionville, Ontario

2. 
   Ribeye | Dec 28, 2004 07:22am | #7

   IF you're going to move the MS around a lot, that Ridgid MSUV is pretty nice to have.  (I have a 12" "Craftsman Professional" CMS mounted on one and I've no regrets for either the saw or the stand. 

   But then I got the MSUV for $99 when they _first_ hit the stores (they shot up to $200 the following week).  And I got that $300 CMS at the Sears service center brand new but with a busted-up box for $185.  -- Steve

   Enjoy life & do well by it;

   it might well be the only chance you get.

   http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/

3. 
   maverick | Dec 28, 2004 11:54pm | #14

   You are not saving any money using MDF for trim. MDF will kill a nice saw blade fast. Add that to the price of your trim.

   My floor installer says go ahead and finish ALL the trim. This guy does high end work and it all looks great.

   As for the crapsman saw, If you dont need to use it professionally then return the fancy stand and saw then use the money for an upgrade. Take the 350 bucks to a pawn broker and buy a saw you will never regret

   lastly, I agree with the guy who said put up the extension jambs before the plasterer gets there. He can feather to the jamb.

2. 
   RW | Dec 28, 2004 02:13am | #2

   1. No, that's as economical as it gets

   2. Rip solid stock or even your premade MDF/veneer jamb stock. Nail through it edgewise, or shim it all over if it's real deep.

   3. brad gun attaches casing to jambs. Finish nailer attaches base to wall, casing to wall. Finish gun at the thin edge of casing into a jamb runs a good chance of busting things apart. Inch brads, 2 or 2 1/2 nails. Make sure you know where your water lines are (oopsed there once)

   4. Badly. But you didn't spend 5,6,7 bills either. For the price, hey, go for it. But don't expect the priest to let you go lightly at confession.

   5. For the same price? no. The Iowas are sturdy, end of story. Don't plan on repeat cuts. The DW is about 200 bucks, not too bad for all around work. I think you want a real nice one you build it.

   6. Depends. Base usually goes on first with a prayer that some rookie doesn't end up on the sander. You will put shoe down after the finish, unless a rookie does, in fact, get the sander, at which point your base will prevent him from cutting through the wall with the thing. Side note, redid all the first floor trim on a house that had just been finished, the floor finishers, I dunno. If they were drunk, I might have understood a little more. They destroyed everything near the floor. Stair skirts, base, case, door bottoms. They didn't miss a thing. And they stained the floor this deep cherry color, which got all over the doors, base . . . which were natural maple. Wow. That backcharge had to hurt.

    

   "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

3. 
   dIrishInMe | Dec 28, 2004 02:23am | #3

   I'll hit a few of them...

   3) use 16 gauge 2" or 2.5" nail depending on how worried you are about hitting wires and pipes... :-)  The 18 ga pin nailer doesn't have enough holding power for your application, although it is good for nailing small returns on window aprons and pinning together outside corners on base which BTW should be glued too.

   4) - 5) The Crapsman MS will probably be fine for what you are doing, but why spend almost as much on a stand?  I'd rather have a better quality saw on a board and a pair of saw dogs. 

   6) Don't put the painted base in until after the floor is finished unless you intend to install shoe mold.  Shoe mold is my preference, pre-stained to match the floor. 
    

   Matt
4. 
   dinothecarpenter | Dec 28, 2004 03:21am | #4

   2.  I need to add jamb extensions to all windows and doors - the wall finish i tore off was 1/4" paneling, the new walls will be around 5/8 (depending on thickness of plaster.  I think I'll use the technique described earlier this year on another thread:  hot melt glue 1/2" jamb extensions, then use a router to trim them flush (or a little proud) with finish wall surface (attached plywood block to router base to ride on finished wall surface).

   I can  see few problems here.A. If the walls are'nt straight your molding it will copy the problem. B.how do you rout the corners?

   YCF

5. 
   mike4244 | Dec 28, 2004 05:05pm | #8

   I would not use a router to trim extension jambs.Another post asked how are you going to trim top and bottom of extensions.Also the router will follow the wall, if it is not straight you will get a less than straight jamb edge.

   Rip each side jamb straight and slightly over width. Plane or sand reveal edge (assuming a 3/16" reveal).Glue and nail with 18ga brad nails . Do not use hot glue as it is too thick, at least the stuff I used is .Leave the extension jambs 1/32 to 1/16" proud of the wall, easier to apply your trim and the difference can not be seen.

   Use a brad 1/2" longer than the extension width, glue will hold it , short brads are less likely to come out the side .If you prefer flat stock, buy mdf sheets and rip them .Keep in mind several things, wear a resperator and rip outdoors if possible. Clean dust up often.Sheets are 49"x97" or you can buy sheets up to 12'-1" long, they are heavy.Leave slightly oversize as the ripped edge will have to be planed or sanded if a sawed edge will be seen.I have used mdf for base on any walls that are not on a slab.Concrete may make the mdf swell up.Use a biscuit joiner or a router with a slot cutter for base joints.No need to scarf, glue up then sand the joint. I usually measure the longer walls in advance and glue up long runs in advance.Spray painting is the best application if feasable. I spray every thing after milling, then touch up with a can of spray after installation.

   Make sure nails are set,sand the holes if neccessary. Bondo makes a perfect filler, impossible to find nail holes when done.Use 2 1/2" 16 ga on base, 18 ga brads on miters and thin stock.

   mike

1. 
   PhillGiles | Dec 28, 2004 09:49pm | #12

   The router rides on a plank as a guide-bar (you can't run the router's base directly on the wall) - these also provides a straight edge (flat surface ?) for the router so it doesn't follow the small ripples on the wall. The real trick, of course, is to lap a couple of side pieces onto the guide with handles on them for your helper to hold the guide while you route (both operations require two hands). These side extensions (i.e. like the horizontal bars on the letter "E") not only provide a holding spot for the guide, they help it maintain a flat attitude WRT the wall's surface..
   Phill Giles
   The Unionville Woodwright
   Unionville, Ontario

6. 
   G80104 | Dec 28, 2004 05:24pm | #9

   Bill,

          Do yourself a favor, skip on the MDF door casing. The stuff is a PITA to finish, ALWAYS looks like crap when done! Go with Pine or any other REAL WOOD!. Yes it cost more but in the long run you will be better off.  MDF is used out in this neck on window sills ( still can see every nail blister mark) and baseboard! 

       On the tool selection , you should be fine! Just be sharpe & safe( always protect the peeppers!)         Best of Luck on your efforts!

1. 
   PhillGiles | Dec 28, 2004 09:52pm | #13

   There's good MDF and bad MDF. If you use the paper-wrapped and primed product (definitely not the unfinished or the primed-only versions) you'll get a very nice surface to paint. As implied, you have to fill in the nail-holes..
   Phill Giles
   The Unionville Woodwright
   Unionville, Ontario

7. 
   RalphWicklund | Dec 28, 2004 06:51pm | #10

   Is it too late to reply to #2?

   Since you are having the walls skim coated, rip and apply the jamb extensions first, to the approximate finished thickness of the plaster and let the plasterers use the extensions as their grounds.

   This will/should get you a near perfect plane for the final installation of the casings. It will also allow you to use one and only one size rip of extensions.

   If you think the plasterers will destroy or ruin the finished look of the extensions, make them up as removable grounds and then make up a set of new extensions of the same or even minimally proud dimensions.

8. 
   masterofnon1 | Dec 28, 2004 07:39pm | #11

   Miter saw.  About one month ago I bought a 12 inche Delta with the larger fence and double laser for $219.  I think it is a better machine than Craftsman.  I am sure others will bash Delta as well, but works for me.

1. 
   BillW | Jan 03, 2005 04:41pm | #15

   All - Here's an update for your amusement:

   First of all, I bow down to all of you who do this professionally - it has been humbling, to say the least - took about 5 times longer than I anticipated.

   1.  I used the MDF casing - it really was pretty easy to work with, I got nice tight joints, filled nails holes, everything looks good.

   2.  The jamb extensions ... I ripped a bunch of 3/4 stock to 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 thickness, measured the jambs on each window and rounded up to the nearest 1/8 ... so each door and window ended up with jambs that were anywhere from flush to 1/8 proud.  I tuned up a couple with a hand plane, but this worked out really well.

   3.  Nails / Brads - This worked out perfectly - after I asked you all for advice on nail/brad size, I opened the boxes and it turns out the tools came with exactly the right size nails ... go figure. 

   4.  Ahh, the Craftsman saw ... set it up on the Rigid stand (awesome!  I wish I had got in on that 6 months ago when you all got it for $100!) and it seemed extremely well calibrated right out of the box.  After 3 minutes of use, I was wondering how in the world I EVER lived without a laser-guided saw blade - wow! - amazing.  Then the laser failed (I changed the batteries - which reminds me - are they all battery powered?) - so finished the project without the laser, hearing my father's words in my ears the entire time (what good is a lifetime guaranty if it fails when you most need it??).  I can't say everyone didn't warn me - Jackofall - what model was that Delta you got for $219??  I have to take this Crapsman to either the repair center to fix it or the store to return it this week.

   Whether or not to install the base before the floors are refinished became a moot point - I ran out of time on the windows, flooring guys come today, I'll install doors and run the base next weekend.

   That's it for now .... Bill.

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 03, 2005 06:35pm | #16

   real trimmers don't use lasers...{VBG} 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   I'll just do it>