Does anyone know of sources of information and materials for designing and installing a residential fire sprinkler system who will sell to a do it yourselfer?
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Here are a couple of links. A fire sprinkler system is not a DIY project. The fire department and your insurance company will have problems if you try to DIY the system. Call your fire department and ask them if you can install your own fire sprinkler system.
http://www.sprinklernet.org/
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/dhtml/public/sprinklers.cfm
http://www.homefiresprinkler.org/aboutFAQ.htm
I to have been looking for information on installing fire sprinklers in my house. One block from my place a house very similar to mine was totaled last year nearly killing a 4-year-old boy and severely burning his mother and baby sister. A sprinkler system would have limited damage to a few thousand dollars and prevented all human injury.
I want to do this DIY for several reasons.
Residential fire sprinkler contractors do not exist around here. (NW Iowa)
This is one way that I know I can get paid very well for my spare time. Retrofitting old houses has to be a very expensive service for a specialty contractor to provide. (I should know, I am one)
An intelligent, highly motivated individual who has acquired most of the necessary design and installation skills from decades of work in related industries should be able to learn the important application specific details via some in depth research.
No one cares about my family and property more than I do. I have it on good authority that I will not cut any corners when designing and installing such a system.
I have no code bureaucracy to kiss up to. My city-fire department-insurance company do not regulate me. We have no electrical code enforcement, no plumbing code, very minimal zoning regulations, etc. I have worked with far to many FDA inspectors on dairy farms during the last twenty years to believe that codes and inspectors insure consumers of anything but additional cost. Some of these guys are care but most produce only a dangerous but false sense of security. [end of rant]
So...I too put in my request for companies who might be interested in selling to an accomplished DIYer.
Kevin
Kevin,
The reality is that fire sprinklers are there to protect property not people. They stop the spread of flames. The people should already be out of the building before the sprinkler heads go off. Good smoke detectors, properly installed (interconnected with a battery backup) will protect people. The fire sprinkler head triggers by heat so a smoldering fire that fills the home with smoke will kill the people by the smoke well before the flames (if any) reach them. Most people are killed by smoke inhalation, not by being burned in the fire. Take the classes needed to be a register fire sprinkler designer/installer. NFPA typically is the main source for the rules as far as design and installation although FM has it's own ideas on the topic. It is not a simple "buy some pipe and heads and use a book figure out the spacing of the heads". Many issues can arise such as is a side wall head better in this location than a ceiling head? Where will the heat gather? Should the head be mounted on the bottom of a soffit or on the ceiling? Depends on the room configuration. Again where will the heat gather. I doubt that you will find a supplier that does not require that you be a certified fire sprinkler installer. There is too much property liability.
"My city-fire department-insurance company do not regulate me" . But they should.
Good Luck
Interestingly, ArchII says that sprinkler systems do not save lives, but every one of the links he provided says that they do, and that is touted as one of the benefits of having a system.
I understand his argument about unlicensed personnel, but once again, from one of the links he provided: The one and two family residential sprinkler market is small but growing. Placing meaningless restrictions on the workforce installing such systems will result in a stagnation of the market and increased costs to consumers with no guarantee of better quality.AFSA will continue to monitor the ASME proposal and take actions to oppose the development or implementation of certification of residential sprinkler fitters. ie, AFSA opposes requiring installers to be licensed (my comment)
Finally, I have trouble believing that installation of a sprinkler system is any harder than designing and installing waste plumbing, and many localities allow homeowners to do this with appropriate inspections.
I have not found any sources for materials and design assistance, and these may not be available. Wirsbo does have a fire sprinkler system that uses PEX tubing, but I don't know if any of their distributers will sell to individuals.
I agree with you about the sprinklers. They would be nice to have, but are unlikely to be of value saving lives. Only after exhausting all other avenues of protection against fire related injury would I install sprinklers. I would put smoke detectors in every bedroom, all hallways, in the kitchen (special kitchen versions that wont go off so often that they become ignored), at the top of stairwells, in the basement, family and living rooms etc. Have a fire extinguisher and smoke detector in any attached garage.
I would invest in emergency ladders for the upstairs rooms, have flashlights in permanent locations, have a high quality ABC fire extinguisher in the kitchen and anywhere else it would be needed.
Make sure all chimneys, fireplaces and furnaces are in good condition. Make sure the wiring is also properly done to reduce the possibility of fire. Install arc fault breakers.
Limit the use of space heaters, especially kerosene.
Dont smoke in upholstered chairs.
Put in carbon monoxide detectors if burning gas, wood, coal or oil.
Lastly, I would make sure that the walls, ceiling and people door are fire rated if the garage is attached.
And no, I dont do all this stuff myself either.
I was wrong to post the links. They all are from groups that have a serious interest in expanding the market for residential fire sprinkler systems. I posted them for general information and did not completely read them (did a Google search and posted). In my opion "Smoke Kills". Fire sprinklers do not stop smoke. In commercial buildings they prevent the spread of the fire but not the smoke. Most commercial building are much larger than the typical home. You need to be warned (smoke detectors) that a serious problem exists. One poster mentioned that it only works for those that are able to react to the alarm. Very true, but they will die from the smoke and the fire sprinkler system will prevent their dead body from being burned. I am not against residential fire sprinkler systems but I do not believe that they will save lives. If you have a family the first defense is smoke detection. You should have fire drills. What do you do if the smoke dector alarm goes off? Check the door for heat. If it is hot go out the window. Call your local fire department and get their opinion
ArchyII,
"The reality is that fire sprinklers are there to protect property not people."
I do not believe that fire code for shopping malls and hotels are solely to protect merchandise and bed linens. As others have said, why do the manufacturers of the residential systems claim protection of lives if they are only meant to save property?
"They stop the spread of flames. The people should already be out of the building before the sprinkler heads go off."
This is only true if all of the people in the structure can help themselves out. Often this is not the case.
"Good smoke detectors, properly installed (interconnected with a battery backup) will protect people."
Big misconception. Working smoke detectors protect no one. They only alert a trained and capable person that there is danger. Sprinklers, by contrast, take action. They can potentially limit the portion of a structure that becomes deadly. Of course smoke detectors are a necessary part of a safe home.
In the incident I cited the mother was washing cloths in the basement, a space heater (the reported cause) was on in the first floor dining room, and the baby was sleeping in a second story bedroom. The four-year-old came down the basement steps and told mom there was a fire upstairs. She ran past the backdoor, upstairs, barefoot, to get the baby. By this time the fire was very hot; when she got back down with the baby she had to run through flames, still barefoot. She ran outside not knowing that the four-year-old in confusion and fear had not run directly outside as she had instructed. The first people from our volunteer fire department were on scene in about three minutes but the truck with the equipment that would allow entry and a search for the boy took almost ten minutes. He was found five or six steps from the back door. After three or four days of not knowing if he would live, he woke up. Alas, fortunately, everyone is going to be alright.
I have to believe, based on a walk through of the house several weeks after the fire, that at the very least the sprinklers would have put the fire out while the boy was still in the house. This may or may not have helped extract him sooner or resulted in less smoke inhalation. The possibility convinced me to pursue the idea for my home.
The problem as I see it is that the family has no one to sue for making the availability of residential sprinkler systems unnecessarily difficult. It is only possible (maybe) to sue someone, or their supplier, for poorly installing a system. It is unfortunate that you feel the need to essentially say that because I might install sprinklers inaccurately, it is better that I not have them at all.
When codes slow down the construction of my sewer lines so that the "you-know-what" flows the right way no one is the worse for wear. When the bar for the availability and/or affordability of potentially life saving equipment is set out of reach of many people the consequences get very serious. It gets even more hideous when it is just company policy.
I understand that there are important application and installation considerations regarding fire sprinklers. The people who congregate here at a Taunton site should understand about the dissemination of technical information. It is time for somebody to take the lead and start talking about these issues. Many of us can learn this, it can't be rocket science...even rocket science can be learned without getting a license. [end of yet another rant]
Kevin
I've thought of doing a similar thing, at least sprinklers by the fireplace. Go to http://www.mcmaster.com they sell several varieties of sprinklers. You won't get any design advice, but if you call them, they may guide you to some. If so, please let the rest of us know.
Just can't understand the concern. A residential system installed on a 1/2" pipe can do a lot of water damage, but if recessed, has little chance of accidentally being triggered. You may induce liability from your insurance company if the system leaks or fails and causes water damage due to improper installation. But, the only risk I see is risk of water damage.
Were I to do it, I would run straight up an interior wall then under the insulation in the attic to above the fireplace, plus maybe some in the garage. If all the piping is installed and water tight, then the water turned on, there will be zero flow, thus zero water in the attic unless a sprinkler head triggers. Thus no chance of the pipes freezing and failing. You're building a large air cushion.
Alarms are the first defense. Fire extinguishers the 2nd. But, why not a third defense? A neighbor got real lucky last year. While he was gone, a hot coal from his fireplace somehow got on the carpet and smoldered through the floor and dropped on the concrete floor below. Burned about a 12" near perfect circle in his LR floor. Amazing it never flashed. It was out when his wife got home. In this case, a sprinkler system wouldn't have gone off, but had the same thing happened and it flashed, would probable have put the fire out saving his house. Where he lives in the country, the fire department probably would be too slow to save his house even if he were home and called them immediately.
As someone with small children, even w/ fire drills, I have no confidence that my kids won't panic and hide rather then get out of the house as they're supposed to. Anything that slows the spread of the fire is a good thing.
As a side, I've often wondered why there isn't a readily installable option. Couldn't a self-contained fire extinguisher that installs in an attic space be built. Triggers in a fire automatically and discharging a container of pressurized foam or powder. Maybe it just can't be built so it'd be reliable over a long period of time. I suppose powder would clump up or whatever. But, it seems if someone could build such an animal that is reliable there'd be a market for it.
Maybe using two chambers, one holding a refillable cylinder of gas that can be checked & recharged from inside the house, and the other chamber holding the powder, so they aren't mixed unless there is a fire.
Way out of my bailiwick, but I have looked for just such an animal. If it exists, I haven't found it.
Or even a tank in the attic holding a couple hundred gallons of anti-freeze solution. If a sprinkler opens it would empty the tank via gravity. Some fire suppression would be gained. No risk of the sprinkler going off over Christmas and running for a week while you're at your inlaws. Plus, when the tank level falls it could automatically trigger an alarm that would alert people, or call the fire department directly.
And as suzy in Calvin and Hobbes once succinctly put it, "And as long as I'm dreaming, I want a pony."
I've renovated several really old homes, and found these glass bulb things with water in them in the attic, hanging from the rafters,old sprinkler/ fire extinquishers, man, those things would never put out a fire.listening for the secret.......searching for the sound...
After searching google for "residential fire sprinkler design guide" I found a couple of very interesting pdf files.
http://www.toolbase.org/Docs/MainNav/FireSafety/2515_express_resi_fire_sprinkler.pdf?TrackID=&CategoryID=1529&DocumentID=2515
http://www.toolbase.org/Docs/MainNav/FireSafety/2521_barriers_installation_resi_sprinklers.pdf?TrackID=&CategoryID=1529&DocumentID=2521
This is the page these docs were found on. It looks to have even more information.
http://www.toolbase.org/secondaryT.asp?CategoryID=1529
Kevin
I think installation can be DIY. Especially with plastic sprinkler pipe like Blazemaster, it goes together simply enough.
But I'd hire out the design unless you have time to SERIOUSY get to know the NFPA code, and brush up on your hydrolic engineering skills. For example:
different heads have different requirements for how close, and how, far from ceiling. Ditto for clearence from walls.
Sofit size will dictate whether you need heads below it. Different heads have different throw paterns/limits.
Diff pipe materials have different friction losses (Like plastic vs steel vs copper).
You'll want to isolate the system from you domestic supply with redundant check valves or other means. You're health department will have something to say about what they require (if you're on municipal water).
You have to do the hydrolic calculations based on your water service size, pressure, elevation, legnth of pipe, # and type of fittings, etc... to know whether you need a pump, what size supply lines need to go in, etc...
If you're so concerned about your families safety, don't scrimp. Pay some $ for the piece of mind and get it engineered.
Someone asked about prepackaged units for attices, etc... There is a whole lot of things available like FM-200, Firewire, etc... I think the upfront cost and necessary maintenance of these systems makes a standard water system more enticing/cost effective for a home. If you had a $500K computer server room to protect, that's a diff story.
You can get heads with 135 degree temp ratings which increases their use in saving lives vs structures. We put these in dormitories. Picture an intoxicated student who lights a cig and then passes out. He ain't hearing the alarm, but hopefully the head will save his life...
Those old glass bulbs weren't filled with water- most likely they were filled with carbon tetracloride- which was a very effective fire extinquisher! The theory was you just winged the glass bulb at the fire and ran like heck when it shattered. The resulting gas extinquished the fire, but unfortunately it also extinquished the people when the poisonous gas (cyanide, I believe) was released. They are now illegal and are a collector's item among some fire buffs.=====Zippy=====
Ahh....Fire fighting grenades. I'd seen some on ebay once, but no one explained exactly what they were.
Don't remember prices, maybe they're valuable.
Your library should have copies of the NFPA codes; one of them deals directly with household sprinkler systems. These requirements are far less stringent than those for industrial locations.
Since this is not a REQUIRED system, yot are not required to follow any particular rules, but the NFPA standard is a good start. Another source of information is a book in the Time-Life "Home Improvement Library," "The Home Workshop."
Individual sprinkler heads, or "maintenance sets" (of six heads and a wrench) are readily available from Grainger, McMaster-Carr, and probably plumbing supply houses. Sprinkler companies may attempt to discourage you ("We have to engineer the system," etc.).
Personally, I am all for it. Even a sub-performing system will make a hell of a dent in a small fire- and every fire starts small! Most sprinkler heads will cover a typical room adequately. "Sidewall" mounted heads need not be mounted in the middle of the room, but are designed to be mounted along the wall.
Hi RENOSTEINKE
Yours is the attitude I was looking for. I never gave Grainger or McMaster a thought. I have accounts with both. I also have an account with a Wirsbo distributor and have been to their radiant design school. I saw on their web site that they have fire sprinklers now but I can't get any useful info from my rep on how to get my hands on heads and accessories. This has frustrated me a lot. I will check the Grainger and McMaster in the next day or two. The link I posted previously seems to cover design issues quite well. If anyone knows of any other sources for hardware (especially online sources) let us know.
Thanks
Kevin
I appreciate all the responses. One last piece of info on this subject. Last night on the news, the TV station ran a test in homes checking to see how well smoke detectors wake children up. It turns out that when UL set the decibel level of smoke detectors, it was only tested on adults. In the test reported last night, they came into the houses after the children were asleep (with parents permission of course) and set off the smoke alarms outside the bedrooms. Only about 10% of the children woke up, and they were very confused and had no idea what was happening. I don't use this to say that we shouldn't have smoke detectors, but I'm not sure if we should rely on them as much as we do. The major firefighters associations endorse sprinkler systems, and I think (as stated by previous respondents) that obstacles placed in the way of homeowners wanting to install these systems at reasonable cost are unconscionable.
After waking my kids this morning, I definately agree that they may or may not wake up from the smoke alarm.
Come to think of it if they fall asleep during the day: shouting kids, tv, table saws, barking dogs, ect. don't seem to bother them much.
I'd like to thank everyone for their help also. I'm starting to thing more seriously about this.
I'm going to be putting in a radiant floor system, under finished floor. It'd be a good time to add sprinklers. Too bad I just can't hook it into the floor system. Nah, the heads would probably get clogged w/ sediment over the years. Plus, I'll run a closed system.
Just heard on the news of a suspicious fire that killed one kid and put his mom and another kid in the hospital. Far too common.
Tell us how this ends up for you.
Bill
I've seen commercial fire sprinklers in action on several occasions. The amount of water coming out of a sprinkler head at the end of a 1 1/2" line, backed by a pressure pump at a 3" main, is impressive. You could fill a bathtub in seconds. Major water damage, but the fire is out.
However, I can't see a residential garden sprinkler mounted on the ceiling doing much good. If a second, or third sprinkler head was activated, the pressure would be reduced to such a degree that the whole system would be ineffective. You would be much better off with a smoke alarm.
Or is there some kind of pressure pump on these home systems?
Gordsco
Well, after reading all the different comments on fire sprinklers, I felt that I needed to comment as well. I am a fire sprinkler contractor who has installed sprinklers in many large buildings and several homes. Selling sprinklers is hard in my area due to the cost. New construction runs $2.00 per square foot. People would rather spend the money on an upgrade of carpet or cabinets.
As for the folks who think sprinklers do not save lives, I must strongly disagree.
The United States kills more people by fire than any other industrialized nation in the world. There has NEVER been multiple deaths in a building with a properly working sprinkler system. Most residential sprinkler heads fuse (or open) at 155 degrees which is a survivable temprature. Also most residential heads fuse within 10 seconds of reaching 155 degrees. Most residential heads use under 12 GPM at 10-20 PSI. Most often, based on actual numbers of sprinkler head activations, one sprinkler head will control and/or extinquish the fire. A firefighter with a 1 1/2" hose line that took an average of 10 minutes to arrive after the fire wall discovered can dump 100 GPM at 150 PSI. That is what causes the water damage.
If you go to any manufactures website, you should be able to find someone to sell you the materials and help you find a designer. True, a licenced contractor should do the installation, but if one is not avalible in your region, then go for it by yourself.
I saw this little poem someplace and thought I would pass it along as well
Now I lay me down to sleep, with sprinkler heads I slumber deep, If theres a fire i not concerned, I may get wet, but I won't get burned.
Try going to http://www.operationlifesafety.org They also have several facts about the benifits of fire sprinklers.
Best of luck!
Another option.
7: Water Mist
One of the most promising extinguishing technologies involves the use of fine water droplets, known as micromist.
This technology represents a potential solution to the protection void left by the environmental concerns, and subsequent demise of Halon 1301 gas.
Micromist systems discharge limited water quantities at very high release pressures (approximately 1,000 psi). This produces droplets of less than 20 microns diameter, resulting in exceptionally high efficiency cooling and fire control with significantly little water. Initial system tests have demonstrated successful fire extinguishment in hotel room scenarios, mockup library bookstacks, computer rooms and underfloor cable spaces. In most situations these fires have been extinguished with 1-5 gallons of water. Many of the test scenarios have been suppressed in less than 1 minute, with all fire scenarios extinguished within 5 minutes. Water saturation, often associated with standard firefighting procedures, is avoided. Other anticipated micromist benefits include: lower installation costs, minimal aesthetic impact, and known environmental safety.
The micromist system consists of:
A leading micromist system is under joint development by Baumac International, Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Corporation, Marriott Hotels, and the University of Maryland Fire and Rescue Institute. Equipment controls are being developed by Fire Control Instruments (FCI), Notifier Corporation and IEI North America. To date, this consortium has compiled an extensive data base, testing micromist is a variety of "live fire" situations.
While success has been impressive, several questions remain regarding mist capabilities and constraints. In particular, what factors impact mist success and, what is the level of collateral content damage upon extinguishment? Several cultural heritage fire problems will be simulated and analyzed during upcoming tests. Representative heritage collections will be placed in a micromist discharge. Following micromist suppression each item will be removed and examined by collections management experts for damage and establishment of required restoration effort.
Several heritage institutions are providing materials and technical expertise for the test program. These include the National Gallery of Art, the National Library of Canada, the Field Museum of Natural History, the National Archives of Canada, the Library of Congress, the Architect of the Capitol, the National Library of Scotland, and the National Park Service. With their input, the ultimate benefit of micromist will be established.
Additional information on this technology will be forthcoming as developments progress.
This was copied from.
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/waac/wn/wn17/wn17-2/wn17-206.html