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I recently repainted a long hallway and added some chair rail only to discover that
the long horizontal lines of the rail reveals a couple 1/2″ dips in the wall. This is
in a 1955 ranch, drywall construction in hot and steamy Atlanta. Each dip seems
to be from a wayward stud. Is there a clever way to shim out the drywall behind
the dip where the rail is without tearing down the wall? Can you even rennovate a
wall that has irregular studs like this?
I just want to make this chair rail look good, because otherwise I have to rethink
the expensive 2-tone paint job I just fin
Replies
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Are you painting the chair rail? If so, try reading up on "can anyone caulk without making a mess?" The masking tape with caulk might work if the rail is painted. However you will still see the wave. You just won't be able to throw a cat through it. Or you can cut wood to make up the diff. and lam. it to the rail, if its stained. Either way you will still see it. Of course, you could push out the drywall from the back side,(remove one side of drywall) and add nailers to flush up and straighten both sides. Then rehang some or all the board on the back, depending on how high up or down low you go. Or, screed the dips out with successive coats of maybe first cpl. "durabond" (cause it shrinks less) and then some "easysand" or bucket mud. Can't think of any more. Sorry.
*Back in the dark ages one of the methods used to take a bend out of a stud was to cut mostly through from the concave side and hammer in a narrow wedge. This would then force the wood to bend at the weakened point and appear to be straighter. This was done before the wall was covered. In your situation, you've already refinished your wall with expensive paint and a chair rail so if you attempt this you will be cutting through drywall to get to the studs and will have to patch the cut and repaint. Also, I don't know if you could overcome the holding power of the drywall nails. Maybe having someone push on the back side of the wall would allow it to move and straighten while you hammer in the wedge.Hey, maybe someone out there has the time to experiment with this and let the rest of us know what happens. Or, better yet, if BT is really upset with the way his wall looks he could actually try it. Remove the chair rail and hide the cut behind it - that way, no patching or repainting if it doesn't work.Comments? Ralph
*While a half-inch is quite a bit, if your chair rail has enough depth, why not scribe it? The less depth your chair rail, the more noticeable the variation in thickness will be.Or, if your chair rail hasn't the depth, and is flexible, can it be screwed to the studs and sucked tight? If too stiff to flex, consider scribing filler piece to "fit" the wavey wall, then nail your chair rail off on the straight face of the filler piece?What style is your chair rail? if it is a horizontal/flat "shelf-type", and you can't scribe, consider adding a half-inch (or enough to cover the widest gap) thick cap mold on top of the chair rail. It sould be flexible enough to follow the curves of the wall. Consider it the same as a cap molding on a baseboard.If you're gung-ho for caulking, at least scribe away a portion of the gap so you'll be caulking something less than a half-inch. I suppose you could use a saw to cut through the drywall/plaster and most of the stud thickness from the concave side. You could make your cut where the chair molding will cover the blade's kerf mark. As others have written, have someone on the back or convex side of the wall. They could push out, "breaking" the stud. As they do, the kerf mark you just made will widen. Glue and insert a wedge into the widened kerf to force the stud to maintain its new shape. A slight gamble, as you could possibly cause a few cracks in your drywall/plaster. Remote, but a possibility. Make sure you know what you're cutting into before you fire up the saw.Best bet? To try to straighten the wall a bit, then scribe the molding for a nice fit. Or, look at different designs of chair rail molding. Some may be more flexible (or built up/laminated) and allow you to glue and screw to the studs, sucking it up tight.Sorry there's nothing definitive to offer. Much depends on molding style and severity of dips. Good luck...
*Other than removing the chair rail, correcting the offending wall section, replacing the chair rail over the cut or scribing, I don't know of anything.If I evercome up with a method of straightening walls after they're finished I'm gonna' patent it then sell it to ya'll.
*Right Rich - Now were talking cosmetic surgery! Those plastic surgeons command some big bucks. No reason why we shouldn't cash in on a wall straightening bonanza, what with all the bottom-line watching builders out there using the "best" lumber available in the cull pile for their walls.
*Aarrgghhh!Rich, after reading your post, I re-read the original. I didn't realize that the trim was already installed. I wrongly figured that while in the middle of installing molding and discovering the walls were that far out that the installation would stop and the "corrective surgery" would begin.Details, details...
*You guys are genius material. I've broken studs b/4 but never tried it with a finished wall. I'll have to give it a try. Thanks
*Bt Most likely Your problem is caused by two or more studs that have your crowns facing oposite directions. Is it open wall on the other side or is there a wall holding something in place. Some fancy mud work may build the rock out if there is, but you will have to repaint. If it is open you can straighten out the stud. Take a citcular saw and slice into the wall at the stud. Do as mentioned before and have someone push from behind while you insert a wedge. If you cant get all of it out do the same thing to the studs ajacent to it but on the opposite side of the wall. This will give you an easy fix and touch up.Rick Tuk
*Rick, I wonder how wise is it to tell someone about cutting and wedging who only after installing moulding does he notice the wall is wavy. No offence intended to BT, but it can be difficult indeed to effectively explain a method to another over the 'net. Heck, sometimes pictures don't help either. This after making the assumption the guy has knowledge about framing methods and materials. Does it matter that the wall may be loadbearing?Yeah, yeah, I know, we're all here to help and learn. The burden is conveying complete and accurate knowledge. Having knowledge of another's level of skill is part of that. Would you tell a helper--you know he doesn't have full understanding--to go layout a roof? You might tell him to stack the roof. The point is to give instruction--or duties in the example--commensurate to that person's skill level.We try to "bring them along", but it usually takes repetitive learning before it sinks in. A starting point needs to be determined. Otherwise, we end up spinning our wheels when what we try to get across is met with a blank look.The way I see it there are several options. 1)BT understands enough of what is being said to go at it all the while knowing what precautions to take (Don't cut into elec. wire) 2)He knows he doesn't know enough and he decides it is too much for him. 2a)He hires it out. 2b)He decides to live with it. 3)He courageously attempts this work on his own home and hopes for the best.Our attempts at helping should be tempered with caution for the risk that laymen may try to do something beyond their knowledge. I have said this before--months ago--and understand the other side of this. I think we, as dispensers of hard earned expertise, share some responsibility. Then again, I could be wrong...
*This is not a DIY forum. We've all answered DIY questions and this group is very helpful to the laity. However, I come here to learn something. If a DIY has a good question (BT did) and this leads to a technical discussion amoung the professionals here, that's what I'm looking for. Hopefully BT (and even all of us) know when we're getting in over our heads. Generally, I believe people are not stupid. I suspect BT knows his skills and abilities. I don't believe in keeping knowledge from people so they won't hurt themselves. I also hope that if someone is stupid enough to try something that they obviously can't handle, that they don't try to sue anybody here.
*Rich,No you are right. Sometimes I forget we are talking to people who may or may not know the basics. Thanks for reminding me. Things we think of as simple can be diffucult for even the proficient amatuer. And no I wont get upset when someone points something like that out to me. Thanks for being so observent and putting yur reply in genteel terms.Rick Tuk
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BT:
'b' I've never tried this, but I once read a fix
assuming the waviness is due to warped studs that are convex toward the offending wall:
make a horizontal cut with a circular saw that is angled about a 45 degree into, about 2/3 across the stud.
Push the bow out of the stud (A strong helper?) and drive a
big drywall screw across your cut. That should pull the bow out of the stud.
If you do this behind your chair rail, hopefully you will hide all the damage. Make sure there aren't any pipes or
wires there first.
Good luck, and let us all know if this works.
Steve
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Rick, thanks for the cool response.
Dang, Ryan. You make some very good points. So how can I argue? I know! I don't intend to argue. What you have said is exactly what the response was the last time I brought this up; that it is up to the individual to know his limits. But, can we encourage a guy to state his level of knowledge? You know, by saying something like, "I'd tell you how I would do it, except I need to know if you know..." My reasoning is that it would not be of any service to share a method that is over the guy's head. In fact, it could well be detrimental.
Once I was established in the trades, one of my chief sources of further construction knowledge was from investigation during remodels. I could demo a guy's work and try to understand how and why he did what he did. It is exciting to learn something new. But, I had to possess a level of skill that allowed me to understand what I was looking at.
I too come here to learn. You'd be hard pressed to find a guy more interested in new knowledge. I also do not condone witholding knowledge. Although, sometimes you have to qualify the individual so as to impart practical knowledge. To tell the truth, I have witheld what I know on some threads right here in our little cyber-burg because I didn't think I could effectively address something I thought too elementary--the premise being that when one asks something basic they lack what is necessary for further understanding--or, perhaps I didn't like the way the thread was going. My gawd, I know this sound elitist or that I'm some master out of Karate Kid. Let's just say it is a fine line between knowledge and understanding.
To be truly helpful and an instiller of knowledge, you have to give only knowledge which is likely to be used. I have avoided some advice on this board because it is beyond my current understanding. To reach for what is unobtainable at this time is foolish for it is a waste of my time and can lead to hazards of which I have no foreknowledge. I'm certain you will agree that any part of construction has a high hazard potential.
Thanks for your comments.
*ok B.T., which door did you choose? The suspense is killing me.
*Guys, you all bring up good points about the skill level necessary to utilize the knowledge imparted by the respondents (youse guys), however, as was also mentioned, this forum is not all about DIY. Answers posted can -should- be of sufficient detail or complexity or even of simplicity so that almost anyone, including all of us hotshot, been in the business since the hammer was invented, been there, done that contractors, builders, remodelers can benefit from the experience of others. I've been reading about construction practices since I got my first copy of Audel's, (copyrighted, 1923) and this forum is no different than any publication (except the personalities :-) ).For those of you who have had the good fortune to ply your trade(s) in varied locations you know there are widely differing construction practices and very importantly many so-called tricks of the trade that can only be learned on the job. If all your work is common and straight forward (the kneebone is connected to the thighbone, etc)and you've never installed crown, scribed a counter top, installed hot water baseboard heat or worked all night, every night, putting down new flooring in a supermarket, the fact that you make your living as a builder, still puts even you in the DIY category on those subjects when you finally have to do the job.So, please don't judge the questioner, assuming his knowledge or experience level, just because the information he seeks is, to you, just basic, beginner or DIY level.Comments? Ralph
*Something that I have run across more than a few times, but have not seen addressed yet, is the drywall itself causing the waviness. This may or may not be the case here.Most occaisons that I have found this problem, it is the room opposite a bathroom, or a washroom, or even an exterior wall. What I have found is the drywall on this particular wall some how, some way, got damp (not WET, just damp). When it got damp, it tended to bow in, or out. This is the drywall BETWEEN the studs. When it dried out, it had already taken its shape. The fix, in my opinion, is to remove the drywall and install new (only in the bowed section). It would be no different than removing the drywall from the other side of the wall and installing bracing, etc... Either way, you open up a wall and have to replace/repair drywall (or in some cases, plaster).Since I cannot see BT's wall, I can only go by what he has stated. Unfortunately for me, it is not enough to give a detailed, step by step repair procedure. It would only be speculation on my part, and my ideas may seem half baked.As for the information in these forums, it is, in my humble opinion, here for anyone willing to read it. The idea is not to get a specific, detailed, step by step repair or building procedure that I MUST follow, but to get ALL of the varied opinions, and details from everyone. With all of this knowledge, a common individual can sort out what seems logical, what seems practical, and what falls into their scope of skills and abilities. The individual, whether a pro, novice, or beginner, can decide what falls into their abilities and skill level. Most find that the job requires more than knowledge. I have found that when a job requires some special tools, or at the very least quality tools, most DIY'ers call a pro. It seems to be cheaper than buying all those tools, especially if it is just for a small job. Just my humble opinion...James DuHamel
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A couple of options;
Float Durabond over the offending area. Don't use faster than 90 and don't, don't, don't build up extra and expect to sand down to the proper thickness. Use a darby, or screed, to bridge the depressed area.
Cut flat trim stock in the shape of the depression to fill in behind the chair rail. Dry fit well before gluing in so it will look like one piece when painted. Pry the rail off a little before glueup so the glue is not squeeggeed off by the tight sliding fit. 1/2" is pretty dramatic but painted the irregularity can be seen as adding character (read old) that a die flat wall lacks. This will work best if the dip isn't too abrupt.
I wouldn't try to correct set in 40 year old studs, just add a plumb 2x3 to the side of the old stud.
Good luck.
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I recently repainted a long hallway and added some chair rail only to discover that
the long horizontal lines of the rail reveals a couple 1/2" dips in the wall. This is
in a 1955 ranch, drywall construction in hot and steamy Atlanta. Each dip seems
to be from a wayward stud. Is there a clever way to shim out the drywall behind
the dip where the rail is without tearing down the wall? Can you even rennovate a
wall that has irregular studs like this?
I just want to make this chair rail look good, because otherwise I have to rethink
the expensive 2-tone paint job I just fin