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I am in the process of getting estimates for a blue cut flagstone patio in Atlanta, GA. Each of the masons has a different way of proposing to set the stone. One recommends a 4 inch concrete base. One has a base under a 1 1/2 inch concrete layer. I don’t know who to go with – which base will work best and last the longest (I plan on staying in this house for many years). Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Tanya:
You say:
> "One recommends a 4 inch concrete base.
> One has a base under a 1 1/2 inch concrete layer."
Option 1 sounds the most permanent, however in the 2nd option, what's the base under the 1 ½" concrete layer? At any rate, as far as I know 1 ½" of concrete isn't normally thick enough for an exterior application. By the way, how much freezing weather does Atlanta get? Think about the fact that if there are hard freezes and there are fischers in the stone work for water to enter, the cracks will widen. You might ask the mason if he fills his bed joints below the stones fully with mortar. Also, you might ask him what type of mortar he is going to use. I believe that type M would be best for your application, but I am not a stone mason. Type M is a little more expensive than the standard kinda stuff (Type N) but M is stronger. Craftsmen don't like being told how to do their job, but most like dealing with folks with some knowledge.
Just remember that the cheapest estimate is not always the best. Try to look at some of the mason's work that you want to use and talk to a few of his recent customers. Also, remember that stone work is not an exact science, so there will be irregularities.
Good luck.
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Thank you for your response. Atlanta gets a decent amount of hard freezes. The mason that wants to put down the 4 inch layer of concrete also wants to have 2 sleeves of PVC pipe under the walkways. His estimate is very specific. The problem is that his estimate is twice the cost of the cheapest estimate. I just need to know what to ask to make sure I get the best patio for the best price - not the cheapest. Do you know a mason I can e-mail to ask these specific questions? Thank you.
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Tanya,
Your problem is a very common one...how to compare bids. You may want to head to the library and reference a hardscaping construction book. That would give you a bit more of an education and I would think make you more confident as you make your way through the bidding process.
Soil stability and freeze/thaw cycles are two major considerations for a mortared stone patio. You'll want no organic matter under the slab (excavate to subsoil), you'll want the base sloped away from the house (drainage), and the base layer under the slab fully compacted (no settling).
I'd consider a 4" slab in as freezing environment as good construction. The PVC piping indicates that the mason is concerned with water under the walkway...another sign of good construction. Atlanta's weather is not terribly severe, but freezing water expands and can heave and crack/displace the walkway or patio slab. Yes, concrete is strong...but Mother Nature is stronger.
You also mentioned something about the mason that spec'd the 4" slab and drainage pipe...that his "estimate was very specific." A potential sign of a conscientious contractor.
You're comparing two contractors...one with what I would call adequate construction methods, and one who's proposal falls a bit short in my eyes. One who gave you a very specific estimate, and one who, by you ommitting it, I'm presuming did not.
Both have quoted you prices that they feel are indicative of the quality of their work, and in turn, the lifespan of the patio. Yet the prices differ by a factor of two.
Maybe your question should not be "Why is one bid so much more than the other." Perhaps you should be asking "Why is one contractor offering me a lesser installation than the other."
In all honesty, a busy contractor may throw you an inflated price...if he gets the job, it's gravy...if he doesn't, not a big deal as he's busy. A contractor looking for work may offer a lower price to keep food on the table. Still, we're not comparing apples to apples with these bids...the spec'd materials vary by quite a bit.
What I'd do is call back the one with the higher bid. Show him the lesser bid and simply ask him to "sell himself". He should be able to explain why his methods are superior and why his installation will last longer and enhance your home more than the other. Then, simply ask him if there is any room to work on the price. He may throw you a bone.
If you're still unsure, call back the one with the lesser bid. Without showing him the price on the higher bid, ask him to explain why a 1.5" slab can do the same job as a 4" slab, etc.
Visit examples of their previous work. Recent and old.
Regardless of how you pursue the matter, or which mason you choose to do the work, congratulations on choosing a stone patio. If you have it built correctly, it will bring you years of joy.
Regards, Mongo
*Tanya:You don't need a stone mason's opinion. Now that you have a better idea of what you want, (~4" of concrete, attention to detail to, like among other things, measures to prevent water infiltration, and some kind of provisions for drainage,) all you need a third bid.BTW, what size is this patio?
*Tayna Sounds like you got a hold of a good contractor, now you need to find out if you getting a good price. Start by asking the mason, be very honest and show him the other price, but stress that you want the work to be performed correctly. I always suggest that you contact your local stone or brick supplier for some names of quality masons. Here in Louisiana we always put down a 4" base, it cost me little more to install 4" of concrete than 1.5". David
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The patio will be approximately 425 square feet. Can you give me an idea of the price per square foot I should consider. The bids so far range from $15 to 26.50 (the latter not including a $650 dump fee/site prep charge). Thanks for any advice. Tanya
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I am in the process of getting estimates for a blue cut flagstone patio in Atlanta, GA. Each of the masons has a different way of proposing to set the stone. One recommends a 4 inch concrete base. One has a base under a 1 1/2 inch concrete layer. I don't know who to go with - which base will work best and last the longest (I plan on staying in this house for many years). Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.