Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 19, 1999 04:37am | #1

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   In my experience unless it is a very straight-forward installation, it is best to have a glass specialist do frameless shower enclosures. They have the right tools and the experience. If you do it yourself, I advise waiting to order it if possible until after you have built the shower. Frameless doors need close tolerances to look and work properly, and a small mistake can be a real problem. It is very hard (impossible) to trim tempered glass.

2. 
   Snappy | Nov 19, 1999 04:46am | #2

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   Thanks for the input, Nick.

   Anyone have recommendations on a glass specialist in the Twin Cities (Minnesota)?

3. 
   Guest_ | Nov 19, 1999 05:43am | #3

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   kohler makes one and if you like it before you buy it,e-mail me and i'll tell you the story. you may or may not want it. the tolerances are more like a reg door. know your size opening b/4 ordering. i believe they go in maybe a cpl inch increments.

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   Guest_ | Nov 19, 1999 06:54am | #4

   *I'd like to hear a good story.

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   Guest_ | Nov 19, 1999 04:29pm | #5

   *ryan, i'll try to dig up the specs. and then i'll compose if you're interested.

4. 
   Snappy | Nov 20, 1999 02:32am | #6

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   Calvin:

   I'd like to hear the story as well.

   It sounds as though you are not recommending the Kohler product. Am I correct? Perhaps the story will let us know. I look forward to hearing the tale.

5. 
   Guest_ | Nov 20, 1999 02:43am | #7

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   You can buy the enclosure beforehand, but once the opening is built is has to be measured and installed. Even though there is a limited tolerance, it either fits right or is worthless.

   SHG

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 20, 1999 05:40am | #8

   *gentlemen, i was logged off just as i was about to conclude the message. i gave you every stinking detail and i ain't going to do it again unless you absolutely have to have it. here's the cliff notes. k-704010 helios barrier-free shower door (Tub) fits opening48-60" by 55"tall. nice looking, hard to operate leaks like a sieve from inside to out under the glass so you cant find it easily.(at least this one did). Hard to install cuz you're scared you'll screw it up . once you do it and find the leak that shouldn't be there and the lady of the house just loves it, the next one you do will be a pc. of cake. I had faxed instr. that came in the box, along with a note urging me to contact a trained installer. The plastic trim is junk and you should order a bag of the corner pcs. cuz you'll need them. so there you have it(not as nice as the one that aol thought should't exist) do what you want. remember, looks good, prob. expensive, doesn't leak once you plug the poorly glazed glass and the plastic is shit and the teenage boy says it's too much work to slide pivot and swing and turn the water on and .............get me outta here.

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   Guest_ | Nov 20, 1999 05:47am | #9

   *one more thing. the sizing isn't mentioned in the pretty catalogue, but i'm almost pos. that you had to order it to within a 2" margin. so get that fact from kohler.

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 20, 1999 06:22am | #10

   *Basco is the door I prefer if I am going to install it my self. If it is an enclosure that involves angles, I call a local shower door manufacturer & have them make & install it.

6. 
   Aaron_Tuchfeld | Nov 20, 1999 11:59am | #11

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   I'm surprised that FH has not devoted any article to frameless shower doors or enclosures. Clearly they have been one of the most elegant and exciting additions to the modern American bathroom. My company has been installing these types of doors and enclosures for about ten years (mostly in upper scale new custom homes); however we have seen a dramatic increase in the remodeling market for frameless units. Even in modest homes, people are putting more construction dollars into their bathrooms and everyone wants that "all-glass" look.

   We deal strictly in custom installations. We hold our glass size tolerances to 1/16". Usually there are no channels or framing to allow for adjustment on multiple panel units. If it doesn't fit, we eat it. I've learned the hard to use the best level and tape measure available, to check and re-check my measurements and verify that everything is fabricated according to my specifications
   b before
   we go out to install the unit.

   I would not advise trying to install a frameless door if you are not experienced with handling heavy (thicker than 1/4") glass. Usually, all that holds the glass to the wall are two or three clamp style hinges. One wrong bump and all that you will be holding are few little cubes of shattered glass.

   Although they might cost a bit more than your garden variety aluminum shower door or enclosure, heavy glass frameless units can give even the most mundane of bathrooms a touch of elegance once only found in fine luxury hotels. They make a smaller bathroom appear larger and allow the beauty of a custom tile/stone installation to be seen without obstruction. Just talk to someone who owns one; they'll tell there is no comparison.

   Feel free to e-mail me if you would like any advice on the best way to execute a frameless glass installation.

   [email protected]

7. 
   Guest_ | Nov 23, 1999 03:44am | #12

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   Um, is this one of those things that looks great in a magazine but is a pain to keep clean? (I'm one of those types that likes colors that "hide" dirt. Dark gray cars, that sort of thing...)

   Price tag for a 3 1/2' x 3'?

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 23, 1999 03:55am | #13

   *Andrew - I think that you have to squeegee them every time you use it, or at least fairly often. The plus is that there are less nooks and crannies and no texture to hold dirt. But I think you probably have to stay on top of it. Last one we put in, 48" wide, one fixed panel, one door, was about $1100. Not for the faint of heart.

8. 
   senez | Nov 25, 1999 06:12am | #14

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   if you would consider a bifold door without frame call lyon industries 800-458-9036.it is beautifull ,fully waterproofed,and unbreakable.if you cannot get them yo sell direct you can contact me i'm a dealer for them. senez

1. 
   Bonita | Nov 25, 1999 11:56am | #15

   *Re: cleaningFor shower doors I recomend glass or etched glass (for low maintenance), stay away from plexiglass they're a cleaning nightmare.The cleaning schedule of a clear glass door depends mainly on your water. More maintenance is required for harder water. In general a good glass cleaner an a squeegee weekly should keep the glass clear. For harder water I recomend using a non-abrasive cleaner(vim), rinse, squeegee, glass cleaner, squeegee, also weekly. I know this sounds excessive but believe me, I work for a house cleaning company in a small comunity where the water comes mainly from wells.

1. 
   Aaron_Tuchfeld | Nov 29, 1999 10:09am | #16

   *Here in Los Angeles, a 3 1/2' x 3'x 6' x 3/8" tempered glass enclosure would run approximately $1,800.00 installed. This would include a 24-26" door, (2) wall mount hinges, (4) fixed panel clamps, (1) 6" x 3/4" rectangular pull and mitered glass-to-glass joint at corner. Hardware can be plated or painted to match any bathroom fixture. We seal the perimeter with clear silcone and offer optional clear PVC water seals for the door opening. This installation would be completelyb frameless.As far as cleaning is concerned, we recommend squeeging down the glass after you are finished showering and are still inside the enclosure. However, water deposits can form on the glass and create a white haze if the glass is not cleaned frquently. To combat this condition, we can apply a protective coating known as Diamon-Fusion which bonds to the glass surface. It is a silicone based chemical that acts much like Teflon does on your common frying pan. Water drops tend to be repelled from the surface and cleaning the glass requires splashing a bit of cold water on it and then drying with a clean towel. If neglected for a long period, water spots will be visible, but unlike untreated glass, they can be eliminated with some cold water and a quick wipe with a nylon body scrubber. The treatment can reduce the glass maintenance by up to 90%. So far, all of my customers seem to really appreciate it.Because it is a new product and there are not that many companies licensed as of yet to apply it, availability in your area might be limited. I would recommend asking your local glass shop if they are aware of it. It is definately worth the moderate additional cost for the insurance it can provide. In addition, it can be applied to granite, ceramic and porcelain surfaces. If you can't get the Diamon-Fusion, a coating of quality car wax will help prevent water spots from staining the glass, but this must be applied fairly often to keep it up.I would not let the dread of cleaning glass discourage you from installing a frameless enclosure. Most people are already used to maintaining framed units and know that anything in the bathroom (or in the whole house, for that matter) must be kept clean in order to look its best.

9. 
   Snappy | Jan 04, 2000 11:46pm | #17

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   Any recommendations for a frameless shower door? Who makes the most reliable product?