Replies

1. 
   MGMaxwell | Dec 10, 2004 09:24pm | #1

   If you can find someone to kiln dry your species then it won't take months at all. If you are going to use this for framing, the wood will have to have an inspectors stamp. You can use green wood if you want nail pops, wavy walls, window trim mitres that open.

1. 
   sswain | Dec 10, 2004 11:42pm | #2

   Thanks.  I plan to speak with local building inspector re: the stamp issue.  Hopefully can get him to buy off on what I am doing.

   As to other issues you raise, a couple of comments.  First, walls and ceilings/floors that are not exposed (i.e., to be covered later with drywall perhaps) will be framed with standard S dry lumber.  The milled stuff I am contemplating is only going to be used for the roof rafters in a cathedral ceiling (which will be decked with dry T&G, itself exposed underneath as the finished ceiling) and for exposed beams/joists for a loft and catwalk above the main living room.  Second, none of the walls will be covered until probably many months after framing is complete.  The owners want to use this rather small house (actually just a one-room cabin with a couple of screened-in sleeping porches on either end) for a while in just a dried-in condition before proceeding to completion.  So, the resawn lumber I am talking about will have a chance to air dry in place for a while.  My only concern is what will happen at a few spots where the lumber is fastened.  For the loft beams, I am planning to use a Simpson hanger that is hidden, which gives the connection of the 4x10 and 6x10 beams the appearance of a timber framed mortise and tenon joint.  And I have some ideas about fastening the resawn rafters to the resawn 4x10 ridge beam.  What I am wondering is what will happen to these joints as the timbers dry (assuming I don't kiln dry).  At the ridge, for example, will a gap open between the side of the ridge beam and the plumb cut of the 2x6?  And where the loft beams meet, even with the Simpson concealed hanger in place, will a tight joint turn into one with a 1/4" gap over time?  Thanks for any further feedback.

1. 
   ScottMatson | Dec 11, 2004 02:36am | #3

   Why are you doing this? If you're going for a timber frame look, why not do it right, and use dry timbers, and forget the simpson hangers--use old style joinery methods. Not blasting you, but these days everything is fake. Fake isn't better.However, if you still want to do this, the first thing I'd suggest is getting a moisture reading of your green wood. Obviously, the dryer it is, the less it will shrink. Your estimate of a quarter inch of shrinkage may even be conservative if the wood is really moist. If you get it kiln dried, make sure you send a lot more than you think you'll need unless you can live with some squirrely timbers. It varies with species, and I don't recall what wood you were using.Good luck,Dog

   Edited 12/10/2004 6:41 pm ET by Mad Dog

1. 
   sswain | Dec 11, 2004 04:21am | #5

   I would love to "do it right" but given the budget and my lack of experience, this job does not allow for it.  Plus, we are only talking four joints here (two 6x10s span the room and form the edge of lofts on either end, two 4x10s tie into those perpenicularly to frame a catwalk across the room).  I am all for traditional joinery, but I am also not opposed to using technologial advances when they make sense, hence my consideration of the Simpson hangers.  The particular product I am talking about is at:  http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/CJT_APG.html

   I am not so concerned with warping (as long as it doesn't get out of hand) and checking, as the clients want a rustic look.  I am more concerned that a tight fit between the two beams at right angles will over time develop a sloppy looking gap as the one shrinks across its width (I realize shrinkage of the other along its longitude is negligible).  Also, a tight fit of the rafters at the ridge may over time develop a gap as the ridge (4x10) shrinks.  My plan at this point is to use lags toenailed through the top of the rafters into the ridge along with glued dowels between the end of the rafter plumb cut and the side of the ridge to fasten the rafters.  What will happen to this assembly as the ridge shrinks in width?  What will give?

    

1. 
   talkingdog | Dec 11, 2004 04:58am | #6

   The Japanese have always framed with green timber, and it usually looks mighty fine. One thing they do to anticipate checking is to relieve the back of their posts by cutting a "V" shaped groove on one face that is going to be buried in the wall. This groove is cut with a shaper and is about two inches deep, going right to the center of a 4X4 post. This eliminates checking. This operation is not performed with beams and girders.I have a 50 year old Japanese cabin with redwood posts and larch girders and rafters. The girders are 4 by 16, were installed green with a sort of dovetail joint. When they dried, they twisted about 20 degrees or more, so that they are now not properly keyed into their slots. It looks pretty precarious. They came along later and
   put some bolt fasteners on them to hold them in place. Have held up 50 years under 6 foot snows, earthquakes, typhoons, etc. Still looks kinda scary though.Larch is famous for twisting like this. The better sort of Japanese house uses imported green old growth douglas fir, and fir doesn't have such a problem.

2. 
   JonE | Dec 11, 2004 03:50am | #4

   Talk to a timber framer.  I don't know of any in my area (and I know quite a few), who frame with kiln-dried timbers.  Of course, you're talking about aesthetics rather than structural (right?), but even kiln-dried timbers will check and split a little bit in the kiln.  

   If you want roughsawn and rustic, go with green.  It will dry as it ages, and will look fine.  Don't be concerned with shrinkage along the long axis of each piece, but they will shrink (and warp, and check) in other directions.