Greetings,
We plan on using frosted glass in three doors for our remodel project. Two of the doors will be purchased new with frosted glass. The third door is a solid oak door from an old hotel which has 1/4″ clear glass.
I called a local glass company to discuss sandblasting the glass in the old door. They recommended that, instead of sandblasting, we have a plastic film installed on the glass of the old door. That film is claimed to look just like frosted glass. They said that the film film is much easier to clean than a sandblasted glass, which would collect fingerprints (we have young kids) that are hard to clean. The other benefit is that the film would make the glass safer if broken.
Question 1 and 1a: The film sounds like a good alternative. Any experience, comments suggestions? Does it look good?
Question 2: For the new doors that we purchase should we buy clear glass and have it covered with the plastic film, or do new doors with frosted glass hide fingerprints better.
Question 3: What about sandblasting and then covering that surface with some type of lacquer or other sealant to ease cleaning?
Thanks, Brian.
Replies
For a door you need safety or tempered glass. You might be able to get frosted safety glass with the rough surface turned in so the outsides are smooth.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Where is Don, the glass man. Don't remember his handle.Haven't seen him on in a while.
If its glass, i'll etch it............or something like that. You are right, haven't seen him around in a bit. The nerve of some people.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Almost, but it was enough to find him."Don Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!""And this post was directly on topic.http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=68109.25&search=y
I see that he was last on in August.
Bump for Don if he every shows up.
I agree with the glass shop. The frosted side of glass can be hard to clean. And even worse if Junior gets to it with a pencil, crayon, marker, lipstick ...
I have used the film several times, and it works very well.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
We have used the film in a commercial office buildings for several years now. Your glass supplier is right on this one.
If you want to get creative, ask to se what paterns they have available. You can do some neat things, and your friends will think you spent a bundle for custom etched glass.
Dave
We just finished a private dining room in a restaurant with frosted glass doors. The person that sandblasted the doors coated them with some chemical or treatment that prevented finger prints. It works great.
Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
I'd go with the sandblasted glass since it is more durable. Frosted-looking plastic film looks great until it starts to peel or gets scratched then it just looks cheap. Frosted glass will always look like frosted glass.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Just ret'd from a trip. wiull send you an answer to your dilemma tonight, after I get back from another outing.
Don Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Brian: Second try - managed to delete the first!)
Personally, as an etcher, I'd frost the doors. The film will not last as long, will peel, scratch. develop bubbles beneath it. Yes, I've seen commercial jobs done w/ film. But - those folks are willing to accept the problems & cost of replacing the stuff when it develops problems. Get it etched once & it is done forever. For better or for worse.
No matter what you do, get two new clear glass doors & have all three done at the same time, otherwise you will have two different appearing doors. No glass etcher can duplicate someone else's work as to texture, etc. F'rinstance, I etch w/ 220 grit silicon carbide grit. If someone else uses 180, 150 or 120 grit aluminum oxide, it will never look the same. Matter of fact, any other person using 220 SiC grit will leave it looking different from my work, just because of our different technique in frosting.
As to cleaning - frosted glass will hold & show fingerprints like a neon sign. And you cannot really get them off. Well, you can if you use Easy Off oven cleaner. I've met a restautrant owner who did. Easy Off is extremely dangerous to use because it is based on lye!
The best solution is Armor All whindshield protector. If put on per directions, NOTHING will stick to the glass, including a handprint made w/ bacon grease! We used it on our glass shower door three yrs ago, & it has yet to show a hand print - or a water mark. You cannot get the stuff off short of sand balsting. I have yet to find a solvent that will remove it. I've used it on desk trinkets that get handled a lot - no sweat keeping them clean.
In the FWIW dept. A uniform frost on any large surface is the most challenging job an etcher can do. Large starts at about 9X14, a normal sized window pane. I once had to re do a job a rank amateur tried on 144 panes in a new church sanctuary. Except I had to do it on site. Took 2 full days by 4 people. One etcher & 3 support folks. We started w/ 50 lb of 220 grit & recovered 30 lbs. from the plastic sheeting we spread out. That means thet the custodians will recover 20 lbs of grit from the carpet over the years, probably wondering what all that gray dust is they get out of the rugs.
Good luck w/ whatever choice you make.
Don Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
I have seen that plastic film etching stuff and the slow shrinking film and the real nice glue line film left as it shrinks . Get it etched properly . Windex or some other spray on window cleaner will remove fingerprints . I blasted my kitchen cabinets door glass . wash the prints with water and dish soap
Don: But Armor All works better & easaier for cleaning - forever.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
An alternative to ArmorAll is a product called Invisible Shield. Made by Unelko Corp. and basically the same material as Rain-X, a polymer coating. In my 25 years in decorative glass, did a crapload of etched work, and, as Don points out, was IMPOSSIBLE to clean. The polymer was a revelation.
Here comes the stupid question of the conversation, but I gotta ask, wouldn't you have insulated glass in the door, so if you did the outside side of the inner glass, it won't get any fingerprints, unless you break the outer piece of glass? Just asking.
Dan
Ken: I use the Invisible Shield stuff. I've had the same quart bottle for ten years, now, & cannot tell anyone where to get it because I don't have the foggiest idea! I tell people to get Armor All because it does the same thing & you can find it all over. I had to go to some weird place in the industrial section of Atlanta, GA to find the Invisible Shield.I found it back in 1995/96 when I was doing some etched stuff for the Atlanta Olympics. The woman I was doing it for wanted it to be fingerprint proof & Invisible Shield was the answer. One of the nice things about it is that it doesn't make the etched portions look smooth or more transparent like water does.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Don , I will try the armorall . I had never heard of it for glass ,I use the stuff for leather and such . Thanks for the heads up ,I plan to do a lot of glass for the new house.
Don: Armor All makes a formula for glass, also.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Will that work on my doorwalls. I'm sick of cleaning the glass.
blue
Yes. As I said - we used it on our shower door, 3 yrs ago & it still has yet to keep a mark on it. I've done a lot of glass trinkets for deaktop & awards & coated them. Superb. Fingerprints just don't take.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
The only thing that Armor All shows is a Windshield CLEANER.http://www.armorall.com/prod_glass.html
Bill: I am therefore guilty of not paying attention. There is a product out there specificaly for automotive use. I thought it was Armor All.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Can tempered glass sliding doors be frosted?. We're planning on ordering a 4'door unit from Sterling in clear glass and are wondering if this could be done. Guess it would be best to frost the outside to avoid soap build-up.
Thanks
Tom: Yes, tempered glass can be FROSTED - which is merely a surface treatment. It CANNOT be etched, which goes deeper. I have etched a 1/4 inch thick tempered divider for a restaurant. I would NOT etch a 1/8 inch door pane. Too thin & stress caused by tempering doesn't go deep enough to give you any margin for safety. I have accidentally used a small piece of 1/8 inch tempered glass medicine cabinet shelving for a practice piece for a job requiring a deep etch. It disintegrated in my hand, but I had really went deep (Relative to the thickness of the glass.) I have also frosted a tempered patio door in a wood frame. No sweat. Norm Dobbins, a true master of etching, (Look him up in Google) did two other patio doors for the same Fenestration Show in Atlanta. He went pretty deep (Relatively), & the doors survived quite nicely. All three doors are in my shop, awaiting some wild use here in my house. As a matter of normal practice I would not etch that kind of a door, but it may be done at considerable financial risk to someone.It doesn't matter whether you do inside or outside. Coat the frosting w/ Invisible Shield/ Rain-X/ Armor All. It will shed dirt & dog/rugrat noseprints like a stripper in a gentleman's club sheds clothes.Be prepared to pay handsomely for the job and be prepared to accept any financial risk if it fails while being frosted. Were I to accept the job, I'd make it clear what the financial risks are & require that the owner absorb them. It's really not a big deal, but for the froster to build in the financial cushion to cover a catastrophic failure of the pane, you'd be paying it anyway; you absorb the risk, there is a finite, non-zero probability that you'd never pay it. With a good froster, the gamble is a very good one w/ truly low risk.Now - expect to pay handsomely for a uniform frost on a large area (See one of my previous posts in this thread). Consider that you have a 2 ft wide expanse of glass & your jet of blasting grit is about an inch wide & non-uniform in grit density across that inch wide width. You have to overlap the passes such that you wind up uniform in density. Trust me, a tough challenge & time consuming.Go For It!!!!! Never take counsel of your fears! (Who said that?Don ReinhardDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Thanks for the prompt and informative response...
Andrew Jackson said it...
Wow,Thanks Don, and everyone else for your responses.Since posting my this query I have spoken with some other glass shops in town:One recommended that I use a laminated piece of glass, similar to a car windshield. The sandwiched layer of plastic can be white which gives the appearance of frosted glass while the exterior surfaces of the pane remain smooth.Another shop suggested a plastic film that is fused to the glass, but I forgot to ask whether it was a heat process or a chemical process....A third shop recommended Matt Lux (sp?) which is an acid etching process. Claimed that fingerprints and crayon markings wash right off with standard glass cleaner.I am leaning towards Don's suggestions of etching and Armor all... any thoughts of these other suggestions?-Brian
Glass Protection: I went to Google. Search for "Unelko Invisible Shield." You will find all the products UNELKO makes. They also make Rain-X. Probably the same product as Invisible Shield repackaged for automotive purposes.At this point, I've done enough to muddle the issue. There is a product out there that sheds water, fingerprints, et al. I use Invisible Shield, but it was a pain in the hemorrhoids to find. I figured that the automotive product would be a lot easier to find, & for years have credited Armor All as the mfgr. Man, what a way to find out you are wrong!My apologies to all on leading you astray.Don ReinhardDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Glenn Haege agrees with you. He writes a home improvement column for Detroit News." Q. I just cleaned my 35-year-old ceramic shower tile. It is now free of all hard water deposits and soap scum. Is there anything such as floor wax or car wax that I can put on the walls to slow down these deposits?A. Old ceramic tile gets dirty faster because the soap scum and mineral deposits find it relatively easy to latch on and hang out.Applying a thin coat of Unelko Invisible Shield or Rain-X will seal the surface.This will keep the shower looking good for two or three months."It appears that SOME listings for Glass Shield and Rain-X show similar ingrediants.http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=21003001
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=21003002But ones with later dates aren't as clear.http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=21003003
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=19037001But the last one is Rain X ORGINAL and it shows that it made by Sopus Products. And that lead to this website.http://www.rainx.com/
Looks like I am getting closer.First you can buy Invisible Shield directly from the company.http://www.unelko.com/osc/product_info.php?products_id=220
And they also sell a product called Rain Clear.I suspect that at one time Rain Clear was either called Rain-X or people confused it because both had Rain in the name and they had a similar purpose.But looking at the MSDS for Invisible Shield and Rain Clear they are very different.
Bill: Thanks for going further than I on research on the polymers. When I saw that Invisible Shield & Rain-X were made by the same company, it took no stretch to assume they were the same product, marketed for different groups of people. Wouldn't be the first time it was done.In our shower door case, it's been three years of being used & squeegeed off at least once daily. There appears to be no degradation in the film on the glass. We still cannot leave a fingerprint on the glass. Amazing! We used it on a glass wall & door in our son's house in St Louis, MO. They have very hard, calcium rich water. Two years & no stains or fingerprints on their glass. We haven't tried it on the tile. But, OTOH, we have pretty decent water. As it comes out of the well, it literally stinks & has a terrible iron content, along w/ hydrogen sulfide gas. It gets shocked w/ so much chlorine that everything precipitates out, leaving us w/ next to nothing in the water after removing the chlorine. We have had it tested & confirmed that it is that clean. We have had to clean the shower walls only three times in the three years we have been using it.I promise you, this type product is the way to go on glass exposed to any marking media. Kids, dogs, cats, skunks, snakes, etc.Don ReinhardDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
DonAll of the alchol in the products reminded me of something.Years ago I responded to an ad that was stuffed in a Sear bill. Don't know now why and probably the only time that I have never done that. Never bought anything direct off of a TV ad either.Anyway it was for two glass products. I think two bottles of eachOne Window Maid - Keeps Glass Clean all year long and can be used on Mirros and tile. - It was not alchol based. The stuff was TERRIBLE. The glass streak and striked and I spend months cleaning it before I got it to not streak.The other was Glass Shield. For auto and boat windows. Keeps rain, bugs, etc from stiking. It is very alchol based. Never used it on a car. But I have used it on a boat. It really worked well.Both made by Howe Co.So I tracked it down and bought a dozen of the Glass Sheild direct. IIRC is was a pain. This was pre web days.Did some searching and it appears that the Window Maid is being sold in the UK.http://www.edirectory.co.uk/pf/880/mia/d/window+maid/pid/2249693
Slightly different label, but the Window Maid logo is exactly the same.Also found this As Sold on TV ad, but all of the links are bad.
http://www.lanceradvanced.com/Design/Mirrors/DTY/Home/WIN.html
That lablel is exactly the same as the old bottle that I have.