As many of you know, I live in a pretty small town is a small hospital.
The building is about 50 years old, so they’re talking about building a new one. And they’re probably on the right track – The old building is pretty rough, and they’re having trouble meeting state standards.
I just got back from a luncheon presentation where they showed a proposed building and gave a budget. I was surprised to hear that their budget is 27 million for a 55,000 square foot building.
That works out to almost $500 a square foot. I know that building a hospital has to be more expensive than building a home. But that’s a heck of a lot more than I thought.
I know very little about commercial construction of that magnitude, so they could be right. I was just wondering if anyone here had experience in that kind of construction and knew if this might be out of line or not.
Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing.
Replies
I worked for an architectural firm that did a lot of hospitals and hospital additions. The per square ft costs are outrageous, but then can you think of another building type that includes so many specialized systems and equipment? This was 15 years ago, so I can't usefully comment on the $500, but it doesn't seem out of line.
Agree ... I worked for the gc on an expansion of baylor Hospital in Dallas many years ago, and although I had no knowledge of the cost, the infrastructuire is massive. just think of all the gas plumbing insode the walls, and suction lines, and it all has to be kept sterile. "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You're right that there's a lot of stuff involved that isn't in a "normal" building - Like oxygen tubing and such. I just didn't have any kind of a frame of reference for this kind of construction, and was wondering.
Those who survived the San Francisco earthquake said, 'Thank God I'm alive'. But, of course, those who died, their lives will never be the same again. [US Senator Barbara Boxer]
boss... compare it to the sf. cost of a new "gourmet kitchen"
it'll seem quite reasonableMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
One in particular that I was involved in had additional costs due to the the "healing philosophy" of the building. This seemed to boil down to the belief that if everyone could have a good look at a 100 year old arbutus tree as they passed by in the lobby, they would get better faster. Unfortunately, its roots didn't survive the construction, and now large areas of expensive glazing look out onto a forlorn patch of grass.
Coming from residential construction to my current position in commercial project management I am always amazed at the cost of commercial construction. <!----><!----><!---->
I'm paying $40,000 for bonding plus almost $40,000/mo. to the contractor for overhead on one of my projects, not to mention fees or profit. All the subs are always covering thier asses to especially on specialties that there are lots of in hospitals. I've also been averaging over 10% for landscaping and site paving. It is amazingly easy to be $1-2 million into parking and $500k-$1million or more into sidewalks and landscaping on a project like that. That will jack up the square footage price pretty well.<!----><!---->
Rob
Thanks guys - That's what I neede to know. It's amazing the depth of knowledge that exists here on BT....
The La-Z-Boy... this is very flattering, isn't it? Why don't we just call it the half-conscious-deadbeat-with-no-job-home-all-day-eating-Cheetos-and-watching-TV recliner? [Jerry Seinfeld]
Too late to stop it now, we are on a roll.
If Holmes on Holmes did commercial work this thread would end up longer than Shed Teepee Spaceship.
Here's one for $593 a square foot - http://www.tehachapinews.com/home/ViewPost/55886
Looking on google for "new hospital cost square foot" results in costs ranging from that up to $1000 per square, so your $500 sounds pretty cheap.
That works out to almost $500 a square foot. I know that building a hospital has to be more expensive
As an "all told" price, arch, engineering, construction and all; a "drive away" price--that's about what I'm used to fo hospital work.
You can get a "clinic" or "doctor's office" in for maybe 1/3 or a 1/4 less--but it's really hard unless you like lots of white paint and no trim at all (and you need the hospital to have its own casework shop, too).
First big expense is that you need space in big chunks. You almost cannot use 4' hallways at all. You need (or are required) to use lots of 5' and 10' hallways (and 12' is better for two-way gurney traffic). That, then gets you into needing 3-0 doors, and 4-0 doors for access. For ER spaces & ORs you need doors with operators, which are not at all cheap, either.
Oh, and the frames are not stock, either, you have to use "sanitary frames" where the stop does not come down to the floor.
Floor leads us to seamless floor-base systems. That leads to transitions where you are allowed to use "ordinary" VCT.
Over all that, you also have the joy that there are State & Federal guidelines & compliance forms to submit. Oh, and they are separate and different from the design & construction drawings created, too.
It's not cheap. It makes an internal sort of sense, once you get used to it. But, the "learning curve" is always expensive to climb.
I've been the framing/drywall foreman on a hospital remodel and many medical offices, having seen the process it is easy to understand the high costs involved.
Fedral standards (osh-pod) and special inspection procedures are very strict.
I was told by an onsite inspector one time that hospitals are designed so that if the building were to flip over it would stay in one piece. Not too far from the truth.
Kaiser has been building hospitals around here like crazy for a few years now.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
I bet it climbs. The city where I live was building an addtition and renovating. Budget was 98 mill in 1999. We are over 200 mil now and it is not done. My wife worked there for 14 years and left in the middle of all the bs. The square footage price is way out of wack because all the high price extras.
Any trusses there.
Have a good day
CLiffy
For a bit of comparison I just finished bidding a winery.
Commercial construction with fully 25% of the space to be left unfinished. No public space high end finish at all which hospitals have a lot of.
Hard costs (no land permits , etc.) $200.00 sq./ft.
I don't know about costs because I was just a carpenter/drywall guy in a company that remodeled small hospitals in So Cal. What I can tell you is that hospitals are the most regulated buildings of any type of building.
If you think about it a fair amount of people in the hospital can't be moved very quickly. So if the power goes out or a system goes out like air handlers you have a mess on your hands real quickly.
Another consideration is if there is a big emergency like a huge wreck or a tornado the hospital becomes the safe place to go. So you want to build it to withstand forces that most building aren't built to withstand.
Boss,
I work for a medical center in Sacramento CA. that is undergoing and in the midst of a major building project. The project was announced in September of 2000, if I remember correctly.
A new women and childrens center, remodel of the exisiting facilities, a new medical office building, relocation of the central plant, and a new parking structure.
It took five years for the project to get out of planning and government appoval before the first phase even started. In that 5 years, we were told the costs had double and then some. Originally estimated at around 300 million, now projected to be 650 million, but will probably be more by project end in 2011.
I was at a meeting a few weeks ago, and $650 per square foot was the number current number being quoted.
What I really would like to know is how much of that $500 per square foot goes into the actual buildiing. Materials, labor and such. And how much goes to pay for "other" things such as planning, professional fees, administrative costs, regulatory costs, etc.
Bosshog,
$500/sf is a good ballpark figure to start with. Considering that I spent nearly 4 years of my life PMing at a good sized hospital with 9 clinics and did almost every type of project there, that is inline for hospitals sf cost.
Consider that my old hospital is in the process of building a 200,000 sf addition, the cost is about $100 M which is right around your hospitals estimate.
And yes, most of the cost is government (Code) mandate. Primarily state Department of Health requirements, not federal.
Here are some things for you to consider:
I could go on for a while more, but these are just some examples of where the cost are at.
Yes the cost are shocking, but don't you expect to be given the best of care too?
Impossible is an opinion.