All
I’m in the process of glueing up cherry into 3 1/2 braces for a timber frame. Whats the best glue to use. In the past I’ve seen slipage in laminated lumber using titebond.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Make sure your porch beams are doing their job, without disrupting the desired look and feel of your design.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
The best is RF curing glue. I doubt you have that, so something like the PL brand of Liquid Polyurethane ( not the caulk tube) would be good. With Cherry you could also use resoucinal 2 part, it has a dark , cherry like glue line. It is hard on edge tools if you have to remill after glue up tho'.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Jim,
The only adhesives used in the structural framework of aircraft are generally epoxies. For some reason, the FAA doesn't want planes falling apart in the air, and their veiw is that is the best choice. Polyesters are a no-no, though polyurethanes, in general are OK for non structural stuff. ie. the paint, or to secure your St. Christopher medallion to the dash.
WSJ
"The only adhesives used in the structural framework of aircraft are generally epoxies."now maybe but spitfires and the like were glued up with ureaformaldehyde glues..........................around here all the furniture factories switched to biulding aircraft in WW2
"now maybe but spitfires and the like were glued up with ureaformaldehyde glues.........................."
I do not want to start a flame,...... but as far as I know, there are no airworthy Spitfires left with the original UFMDH.
Epoxies, are, by far, the best, adhesive. But when used appropriately Polyurethanes can also be very good. Used appropriately is key.
I'm done debating here, most epoxies are superior, but polys are dame good also, But humidity as a catalyst is key for polys, as proper proportions, temp. mixing and gel time is for epoxies.
I gotta wonder if the OP is talking lams that are curved ( for knee braces) or what. before I'd go spouting the benefits of two part epox. I'd look at the end use and loading. Epox. is weak in many planes ( I mean shear,and fiber saturation at the glue line, not Aero Plane).
It's common knowledge that the fiber saturation is a major part of bonding, often thicker vis. epox. will fail to saturate and bond.
My reasoning for not using Poly glue, it won't bring a molecular bond as well as an aliphatic resin.
Granted there are many epox variants, and polys out there, but show me any that will swell a biscuit joint.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
"
"show me any that will swell a biscuit joint......"
Duane,
Head (mine) nodding, I'd rather have a cold something with you, than prove a point. Maybe someday (the cold something).
Jon B.
i'm not arguing i just wanted to say that there are other things out there...........trust me i wouldn't want to fly too far in an aeroplane glued up and covered in canvas...........i've been in one from the fifties (with a metal frame) and it's tiny and really cold!!!!!!!and i argree epoxy is the strongesti don't want to fight either!!!!!!! :-)
Why not buy solid cherry?
sawmills sell it for around$2.90 a bd.ft. less if you can use cants..
Frenchy, cherry and other hardwoods might be inexpensive where you are. Where I am they are exhorbitant, if they are available at all.
The nearest hardwood dealer is 2-1/2 hours away, in good weather, on the other side of the continental divide. The prices are not cheap, and the thicker the stock, the more it costs per board foot.
Quit assuming that what is true for you, is true for the rest of us. If the OP lived near you then the possiblity of your statement having validity is there. But, since they haven't posted any information, it isn't safe to assume anything.
You are correct of course but I keep offering the idea since in the many decades I've been doing wood work I seldom if ever see others go directly to the sawmill for wood..
The local retail source for Cherry charges $121.00 a sheet for 3/4 cherry plywood. They get it too unless you have an account with them and then it drops down to something like $64.00 a sheet..
Now granted you have to dry the wood and run it through a planner but I can dry it to a working moisture content in a couple of weeks if you bag it and use a dehumidifier.. Normal air drying will take a year per inch of thickness.
And, often glue lams are much stronger than a solid timber due to optimising defects and redundant grain strength.
You are correct locally sawn timber is cheaper, I'm looking at 1.50 a BF for air dried cherry in 8/4, 4/4 is 1.00. My aromatic cedar was .75.
But getting 12/4 or 16/4 requires an order, he doesn't saw that specifically, but ofthen has the boxed heart left over, which gets squirelly when drying.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Yes I know it does.. my timbers were all made with boxed heart wood and some of them danced around like a hootchie cootchie dancer as they dried.. (and that's after air drying them 3 years or longer before I used them)
However he should be able to get 16/4 relatively easily that isn't heart center..
Lot of really big cherry trees out there.. I've got several planks of cherry that are 22 inches wide and that's after a lot was slabbed off them in order to get them through the saw. Since cherry is a nurse tree and sometimes allowed to grow to really massive sizes before harvesting there is a lot of really big cherry trees around.. (especially since so many small and moderate sized dairy farms have been lost..
IIRC, Mn. was no.1 for Cherry, NY and Pa. were no.2 , it don't do well here in Ky. We have some, but not near what I am used to seeing. It needs a cold winter to do well.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I saw a source for cherry an dit grows naturally all the way down into Mexico..
Ok..LOOK..LISTEN and Learn...I did not say anything about Cherry not growing anywhere. I said that your state, has the MOST cherry, and our state has less desirable. This may be due to winter temps.
Southern Cherry is NOT as prolific as Northern, nor as desireable for most uses.
E.G early funiture from the Shakers, was Maple, Pine and Cherry, in the N.E. As we move south, most was SYP or Loblolly, or longleaf or cypress...hence, the woods used were local, and workable.
Now if you want to "Do a Frenchy" and obsfuscate the point, Mexico ( Sonaran, or coastal?) would have NEVER had Cherry in sizable billets..now we have to discern BLACK Cherry from the others..geezus Frenchie..in Mehico it's latitudes away from northern boreal forests...are you OK?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Well we aren't disagreeing. The map showing it's growth area goes down into the mountains of Mexico. The book I got that tidbit from is packed away in the attic but I'm reasonably sure it was a Tauton Press book. (many of my wood working books are) It didn't say how prolific it was either simply that it was found growing there..
I can see how it would get there since birds eat the cherries and carry the seeds inside them. Northern birds do migrate down into Mexico.
I didn't realize that Minnesota was the leading producer of cherry, I assumed it was Pennsylvania.
Frenchy,
I can dry it to a working moisture content in a couple of weeks if you bag it and use a dehumidifier.. Normal air drying will take a year per inch of thickness.
----
Please share this wood drying secret, also what is your definition of "working moisture content"
I'm just a weekend wood butcher ( with a house full of hand made furniture )
Teach me something??
Bill
Personally, I would use a liquid polyurethane. But it needs to be clamped really well, to prevent foaming which severely limits the joint strength. If you can get it clamped tight through the curing process, it is very strong. But, still soft enough to not mess up your tooling.
Epoxies, and resourcinol, are good choices also. But being harder may dull tooling when dry.
I've quit the Gorilla glue due to the mess of foam and short shelf life. Try the PL brand liquid. It hardly foams at all and rather than get rock hard in the bottle, it just gets thicker. Still, I buy in smaller bottles than I would say TB2 or TB3 which I use much more of.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.