Hello Everybody,
I am new to this forum and I have a question.
I want to install hardwood floor over concrete(aprox.900sqfoot).
The concrete is 16 year old,dry,main floor.
I do not have space for sub-floor.
My question is: there is some strong glue on the market, that I can use for this case? Where can be purchased and how much it would be per square foot?
Thank you.
foxrock
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Replies
How would you pull the pieces together and hold while glue seets up?
Bostich makes a good floor adhesive, but I think with no subfloor, you are going to have to use an engineeered wood floor system instead of solid wood
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In FL it seems to be common to direct glue solid wood to slabs.Just saw them do that on Bob Vila, NOT THAT THAT IS A RECOMMENDATION.He should contact Ken, can't remember his website.
They do it all the time down here in Texas.
Just did a remodel back in Jan-Feb where the eng. floor was glued directly to the concrete.
I think Fast Eddie down in San Antonio has done similar, I know that I've seen posts from him on the subject.
I think you want to make real sure that your not getting vapor/moisture up through the concrete.
One way to determine if you are is to tape a piece of plastic down over your slab for a day or two, if no moisture is coming through then you will have a dry patch under the plastic, if its wet under that patch of plastic then you are getting moisture up through the slab and I don't know what you do in that situation.
Doug
here the eng. floor was glued directly to the concrete.that is what I was recommending for the OP. I think he was looking for a way to do it with real wood flooring, but IMO that's a crap shoot.Absoldefinitely true that they have to be sure NO moisture is migrating thru the slab
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Rexthane would seal the slab... forever or close to it...
it's painable and poly glues stick to it something ferocious...
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that sounds like one that requires "Adequate Ventilation" and some hangover remedies
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that it does...
but not the hangover..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Reminds me of a problem I had when plumbing problems forced us to cut into the slab for repairs. The old florr was parquet glued with that old black stuff to the concrete. After the repair to the plumbing and the slab The insurance company had new hardwood Oak 2" flooring glued to the slab. Needless to say, since the contractor did not seal the slab after the repairs the wood floor warp form the wicking moisture and it looked like Barrel halves all across the room. It was not a pretty sight.
I went in and removed that mess, put a moisture barrier down , sleepers and deck with concrete board attached to that and put in tile. Problem resolved but the floor raised approx 3". Luckly this was in the sunk-in living area and only the rise of the steps needed to be adjusted.
So my advice is, check if you have a moisture problem first as stated by Doug, if not then yes you can glue it down. Be careful if you have low spots as you may need to add leveling compounds, these will weaken the bond for the flooring also and may become an area that you will have problems with later. If you get someone to do this for you, try and get some sort of warranty for duration, material and labor.
Hope all works well for you.
Mike K"The path we walk, is full of decisions. The direction we choose is the destiny of life." (mikro)
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In case that I put engineered hardwood floor how it will be glued to the concrete?Thank You
foxrock
According to the manufacturers instructions.
You can always downloaad them in PDF format from most makers to study before youdecide. use google to find their product sheets.Engineered flooring is more stable and there are clamping systems made to draw pieces together while the glue kicks
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There is so much that can go wrong with this situation.
I get 4 or 5 calls a year for this type of job. Clients go through a slew of "what if we..." proposals and none of them have better than a 50% chance of succeeding in the long term.
Concrete eats glue and warps wood.
Your best bet is to lay down 3/4" sleepers with foam in between, put down some advantech and lay the floor. If an inch-and-a-half rise is too much, get some pergo and pretend it's a real floor.
DCS Inc.
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Foxrock,
I live in South Florida and have installed engineered wood flooring (Hartco brand I think) using the glue recommended by the manufacturer and have had no problems in the 5 years it's been down. Two things you do need to check before you start installation:
1) Tape a 2'x2' piece of heavy plastic on the floor for 3-4 days to check for moisture. If there's not condensation on the plastic, then you're pretty well assured a moisture barrier is under the slab.
2) Take a 6' straight edge and check for high and low spots on the floor. The manufacturer I used said no more than 3/16" over 6 feet I believe (check your manufacturer). If you have high/low spots you'll have to use floor leveling compound to level the floor. The easiest way that I found was to use a permanent marker to mark the spots, then use a trowel to flow it out and your straight edge to ensure you've corrected the problem.
Good luck.
Terry
Delray Beach, FL
Bostick's (sp?) Best is an awsome urethane glue that can be used to glue down hardwood flooring to concrete. I think that when installed properly, it can even pass as its own vapor barrier. I've had to pull up damaged flooring up after using this product, and it was so stout that it actually pulled up chuncks of the concrete with the wood in some spots. Also, check your local flooring distrubuters for an Owen (sp.)engineered s+f oak flooring if you want to go that route. I think it comes in white and red oak. If I remember correctly, it comes in 5/8 thickness with 5 plies, but the cool thing is that it has the same sandable surface as traditional nail down sand and finish. (one solid ply all the way down to the tongue)
You described an on-grade slab as the base. The advice on the moisture test with the plactic and tape is industry recommended and would be a definite before I tried anything. Remember that if there is poor drainage/gutter problems around the house, it could still build up hydrostatic pressure and a test during a dry spell may not give you the same results after lots of rain.
I wonder why you are doing a direct-glue as opposed to a floating floor with a vapor barrier? That seems like a better choice to me in this case. If a client dictated the particular floor, it would be wise to check the manufacturer's website for installation recommendations and follow them precisely. If you are doing it for your home, I'll still check it out. If for a client, I'd inform them if it is not recommended and the ramifications and insist on a waiver if they still insist. If for myself, it's too much money and effort for problems, so you'd be on your own.
This is an "iffy" area that could be problematic. If you install this way and it's not in keeping with the manufacturer's installation instructions, the warranty will be void and you end up eating the problem if it occurs. I think there could be a fairly good potential for problems with this scenario, so I would be inclined to cover myself.
Also, remember to observe the expansion space required. This floor is going to expand and contract with humidity, either from the slab, open windows on a humid day, or from the concrete. A glue-down seems to be much more likely to peak/cup/warp, etc., as movement is more restricted. A floating floor with a vapor barrier might handle this issue better. Good luck with the installation, whatever you end up doing.
Note: I have parquet that came with the house and don't know what's under it. Some tiles slide a bit seasonally. In another small area, we installed parquet and have had NO problems. In another large area, we have laminate with a vapor barrier/pad combo and it is fine too after many years. We have on-grade slab construction and this is all on the slab first floor. The laminate is floating, the rest, I suspect is glued. We also keep our home at the same COOL temp all year round and we rarely open windows, which likely helps keep the humidity a little more predictable. My neighbor with a large amount of parquet had a huge problem when the house-sitter left all the windows in the summer. It was fairly new parquet at the time. I don't know if they had to replace or it settled down when the humidity level was corrected. I do think if they had a strong glue, it MAY have been more of an issue. Just my 2 cents with 15 years in the floor covering industry at the distribution level where our folks had to go out on warranty claims. The key, particularly for wood, is choosing the right product, and following manufacturer's recommendations - then you should be good to go. Don't forget a moisture test. Oh, also, their "acclimation recommendations" should be followed exactly. Good luck!
dtgardengirl,
If he's using an engineered wood floor, there will be very little expansion. I believe I left a space of 1/4" - 3/8" around the edges that was covered by the shoe molding.
Terry
Terry,
Thank you for sharing your positive your experience. I'll take a chance on plant material, but I can afford to lose it. Floors are a much bigger investment so my tendency would be the cautious approach.
dtgardengirl
Sounds like you want to do this in your own home. If so make your left hand prepare an advisement of potential problems (use most of the wording found in the discussion) and then make your right hand sign it with a notary present. Vapor barrier, a back up positive ventilation system and you might get lucky. Tyr
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