Delivered to me at my job site this AM. Told the City Council member who delivered it (a friend) we would go right now to City Hall, and I would show him specifically how the ordinance did not apply to what I was doing. We did so, and he said, “well, I agree, that’s pretty vague, maybe you’d better bring it up at the next P&Z meeting”.
I agreed that I would see him there, and further told him, and notified City Hall that I WOULD continue my work inside, repairing an attic room.
And that they should pass that on to the neighbor who’s been making the complaints
Further developments await, no doubt!
Forrest – fighting the good fight
Replies
They issued a permit for you to do what you're doing? How can they stop work unless you are off permit?
what exactly were you doing, and what did the stop work order accuse you of doing?
Details, please!
Did you obtain a permit for your work?
If permitted, how does the permit describe the scope?
What is the wording of the ordinance you are claimed to be violating?
And lastly, the complaining party just might be that neighbor you prevailed against in court re unpaid balance. Howz my guess?
Here's not just a reply, but a new BOOK!
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=84041.1
Forrest - fighting for the rights of man. And woman.
Mc Design,
stop work orders are enforcable by law.. I'm currantly under one (wrongly issued I believe) but am fighting it on two fronts.. with the city council and in court.. I stopped work as required but because I didn't remove the tons of stone and timbers from site was charged with a crime..
The Stop Work order was probably signed by someone with the authority to do so - and it's a pretty good bet that they think you're in the wrong.
In the greater scheme of things, will it really matter what the delivery person thinks about the clarity of the ordinance - even if it is a City Councilman? Telling off the folks at City Hall may have been satisfying, but I doubt if it's gonna help you in the long run.
If you're asking for advice, I would recommend that you talk to whomever signed the Stop Work Order and see what you can work out. You may (or may not) be "right", but is it gonna be worth it to get everyone pizzed off at you while you make your case.
If you just posted this to demonstrate the Don Quixote side of you, I wish you well. GIDDYUP!!! - lol
<The Stop Work order was probably signed by someone with the authority to do so - >
The stop work order was written and signed by the City Councilman who brought it.
Forrest
are you sure this isn't about your reverse "A" frame stairs?
Well, the stairs tipped off the neighbor, but everyone understands that the stair is temporary during a part of the construction process; really nothing more than nice scaffolding.
The pretty dormer will become enclosed in later work, so it, too, is essentially a temporary structure.
Forrest
Forrest,
Dave45 has good advice. I deal with a lot of histical properties and although no stuctural changes are made other than beefing up existing structural elements, the city wants permits pulled, and that means a BHAR hearing. Maybe it's a revenue thing.
Sounds like a vindictive neighbor.
"Adverse Attic" anyone?
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 1/11/2007 8:39 pm ET by stevent1
So that's what the Beatles were singing about.
Ya Ya it's the___________ Put silver pennies in your eyes and then you'll realize it's to much Ya Ya it's the ______________
Pretty close I may be crossing up some walrus.
Idraggedacombaccrossmyhead
Hey,
A little respect for Forrest
Edited 1/11/2007 9:24 pm ET by stevent1
Got up this morning got out a bed.
Idraggedacombaccrossmyhead
I'm not making fun of Forest.
But trying to have fun.
I often get the old music playing across my brain.
Clay,
No harm, no foul.
I used to fall asleep to the "White Album".
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
How could you remove the stones and timbers if you had a stop work order?
donpapenburg,
Clever arguement however I suspect that it's wasted..
My arguement is a two front attack.. In the city council I have a bunch of paperwork and circumstanual evidence which should get me authorization to remove the stop work order.
IN court I will argue that the stop work order was improperly issued, and prevented me from putting the timbers and stone in place which would have removed the them as they were intended to be removed.
Because of the potential fine I can get a jury assigned to this case and frankly I doubt the prosecuting attorney will want to waste enpaneling a jury for a matter such as this. Especially when I have the ability to challenge members of the jury who may tend to be sympathetic to city hall.
At bare minimum I will have the coursts waste hours, hopefully days on a extremely trival matter..
"Because of the potential fine I can get a jury assigned to this case and frankly I doubt the prosecuting attorney will want to waste enpaneling a jury for a matter such as this. Especially when I have the ability to challenge members of the jury who may tend to be sympathetic to city hall."the system doesn't care about wasting time, particularly a jury's time.
when I sat thru the jury pool's welcome they said that by being there the jury was doing something because going to trail was sometimes eliminated. jury pool could be let go with no trails.
I suspect that your lawyers have only so many challenges that they can use.when never knows what a jury will do.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
bobl,
It's true that I only get two premptive challenges but I am allowed to question each member of the jury to determine if there is a case of prejudgement. Any jurior so inclined can be dismissed without losing my premepetive challenges.
If I remove more juriors than they have enpaneled there will be a delay while more juriors are called.. Every delay is potentially good for me.
In a similar vein another lake resident was able to keep a brick boat house on floats due in part to similar delays..
He registared the boat house as a boat even got a boat license for it, but a city fought him on it, because they were forcing homeowners to remove boat houses from the lake shore.
The courts time is insignificant , they could care less because they only have to be there from 9till 3:30 . And they get paid whether they do anything or not.
Hope you beat the bastuds
Edited 1/13/2007 9:39 pm ET by donpapenburg
I have a friend who said an old car of his would do 0 to 60 in "Hey Jude".
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"At bare minimum I will have the coursts waste hours, hopefully days on a extremely trival matter.."and you're proud of this????
Sometimes you gotta play the cards the way they are dealt to ya Torn. They put Frenchy on the defense.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
yeah, but there are always two sides to every story, and we're only hearing one...
Torn,
I can tell you the other side of the argument..
I have a neighbor who has complained ever since she moved in next to me.. 16-17 years or so.. pets, my girls playing on the trampolene in our yard, everything!
Hundreds of complaints.. lately when the city started to ignore her she got an attorney to threaten the city.
The city is covering their six O'clock.
>I have a neighbor who has complained ever since she moved in next to meGeez, I just cannot understand these people who don't get along with their neighbors. For shame![emoticon for facetiousness]
"At bare minimum I will have the coursts waste hours, hopefully days on a extremely trival matter.."You got the wrong guy, I didn't post that.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
sorry, Highfigh - don't know how that happened. I swear I clicked "REPLY" on frenchy's post...
torn.
Am I proud of this? No, I think it's a horrible waste of the courts time..
However I feel injustice is a greater waste of time.. I'm being fined because of an improperly issued stop order? Once that stop order is removed they should also remove the case from the court docket as well.. They won't (I know the lawyers in the city) they get paid if they prosecute the case. There is little to compell them to do the right thing..
The really horrible part of all of this is that as a citizen of the city my tax dollars are paying for my prosecution which in my humble mind is clear conflict of interest..
High Five.
Nice!
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Planning and Zoning meeting tomorrow night. If it gets nasty, I have a list of similar jobs (with pix) that I did for current and previous P&Z and City Council members, on which they advised me "we didn't need planning approval"
Not for their houses.
Nooooo.
Forrest - still working
Forrest,
Not only bring a list of other/similar jobs, Bring a thumb drive with your work and show them how you are improving/ increasing property values, curb appeal, etc. Show them how you add to the community. Not like some developer putting in a video store, beer wine and cheese and a dry cleaner.
I am 6 and O with BZA (Board of Zoning Appeals) and BHAR (Board of Historic and Architectural Revue) Two building lot set backs and four structural/facade issues. Be well documented and you will be fine.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Not like some developer putting in a video store, beer wine and cheese and a dry cleaner.
Ummm What's wrong with beer, wine and cheese stores?
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
"Ummm What's wrong with beer, wine and cheese stores?"Why waste valuable shelf space with cheese?
BruceT
What you discriminating.
Or you don't like clean clothes.
Edited 1/16/2007 9:30 am by ClaysWorld
after enough beers..
why bother with the clothes...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
What, no pics of board members with farm animals or cavorting with carnies?
<g>
http://jhausch.blogspot.comAdventures in Home BuildingAn online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Zounds like you know how to make enemies wholesale.Would a full cluster of enemies be called an enema?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Nah - too long friends with many of them. I'll talk to them individually before the mtg, explain my position. I just don't want to be the beneficiary of inconsistant enforcement, just 'cause a neighbor's got a wild hair.
Forrest
Hey - just got back from P&Z meeting. Complete, unqualified success! Got a motion carried for approval and an automatic signature on a Development Permit, if I'd submit one this week. I didn't even ask for it - I think they just wanted to shut me up!
Previously, I'd said I would only tender THAT, if it was understood that I would be working WITH P&Z (I had volunteered in my remarks) to develop and codify a minimum threshold, below which P&Z need not be involved.
They agreed with me that their existing wording was so vague as to be useless, arbitrarily interpreted, and randomly enforced
I pushed for a "Form, Fit, and Function" scheme, in which only changes to the interior of the house that changed any one of the three "Fs" would trigger P&Z oversight. They agreed.
Forrest - still working!
Forrest,KUDOS.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Got a call last night from the head of P&Z. He wants me to add on to his home office; was sorry to hear I'm full for the next 12-18 months. Really pushed that I should at least design it - so I'll do that.
Oh - also have a recent request from the P & Z secretary (boss pre tem) to design a tower for his home that I helped him build a couple years ago.
Nice to be loved!
Forrest - still haven't filled out a development permit for the attic; he said, "no prob"
Forrest,
Maybe time for you to become a GC. Be like Mike(Smith).
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Yeah stop work orders and be fun. Had one on a job I was working on (I am on the design side) The inspector was not happy that the so called 3/4" plywood on the roof was less then 3/4 (it was metric plywood, bid surprise that).
The arch that sealed the drawings wrote a letter for the inspector and sent it off. While he was writing it he asked me if he should note in the letter that a 2X4 is not in fact 2"X4"! I could not believe they stopped the job for that. I mean if you go into the local HD or Lowes they have a sign on the plywood that say 3/4" and then lists it's real size (I miss remember what 3/4" plywood really is now of days)
Doug Meyer
Most 3/4 ply is 18mm. Some cabinet grades AA and A2 are still 3/4.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Went to the P&Z head today; measured for a design (billed up front) and quote for an 8x20' bath / kitchenette / closet addition for his home office. Guess he's not mad at me!
View Image
Addition will likely come out of this wall, with a roof ridge transverse to the existing one.
View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/12/2007 5:50 pm by McDesign
Edited 2/12/2007 5:51 pm by McDesign
He might be mad now that you've shown his home office on the internets. He might use the google and find it.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
He's an internet guy - I told him I was going to; he's a long time friend, too.
Forrest
I've tried to bring a couple of customers here to "watch" their projects, but they seem to balk at the sign in. Guess they don't want to be members of a club that would have them as a member, as Groucho said.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
LOL!
Forrest - designin' away
FWIW BT is being the google curtain. Can be searched externally.But JCL forums can..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Forrest,
Looks like a great opportuntity. Is this an accessory structure? In Columbus we have lot coverage issues.
8' seems narrow. 10 x 16 is the same SF and would give more design options IMO.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
8' is narrow - maybe impossible. I'm noodling with ACad now. Here's what they want in the new space:
Full bath; accessable w/ 3'x5' shower stallWasher and dryerWater heaterFull size fridge2x4' chest freezerSome counter space, cabinets, room for a microwaveBig closetHeat pump - will have to be in the attic2 windows; only one penetration into existing structure
Obviously, this is a packaging issue!
This is an accessory structure to the main house. Cool main house - built in 1838 by the guy who surveyed and laid out our town. The highest spot in the entire city limits is right under the main stair!
Forrest
Here's my third arrangement this evening -
View Image
Forrest - staring into space
Edited 2/12/2007 10:06 pm by McDesign
May I suggest you switch the W&D for the freezer. And then the reefer for the cab & counter.
Your counter could then become a sink or clothes rack for things coming out of the dryer. Creating a "laundry center." Somewhat like this:
View Image
My reasoning is that these appliances need other close by support for full function.
You could then put a wall cab over the freezer. Or shelves.
I can't believe I am about to say this -- But this is a great looking laundry room!
Very good -- your work? Custom or stock cabinets? Tell me more!
71033.8
I don't wanna take away from this thread...
Looks great!
2nd thought - looks like a bulging-eyed alien materializing through your cabinetry!
;-)
I'll continue to fool with layout - thanks
Forrest
Forrest,
Looks good. Which end ties into the existing structure?
We have a full size stack washer/dryer unit that cuts the laundry footprint in half.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
The long side on the left.
I've talked to people with the stack units; I've never found anyone happy with them long term. The client wants it here, but I want to make sure there is enough room for a conventional set.
Forrest
I have had a stacked Maytag for about 12 yrs. Love it, and until just recently I was the laundry pro.