I will be having 3/4″ x 5″ Caribbean Pine installed in my new house. I believe the subfloor to be T&G OSB (23/32″ Advantech?) over which Viega Climate Panels will be laid.
Do I need to follow conventional wisdom/industry standards and only install the hardwood perpendicular to the floor joist or will the combination of the subfloor and the radiant panels be sufficent so that I can choose the orientation based on aesthetics?
BTW, over 50% of the floor will be perpendicular anyway. The parallel section may well be a high-traffic area, if that matters.
As always, thanks in advance for all replies.
Happy New Year!
Replies
Fastening plans?
That pine you plan to use, is it t&g? Will it be blind nailed? Face nailed? Fastened some other way? How stable is it?
The panels you mentioned between the subfloor and finished floor, how will they be fastened? How much movement do you expect in those? How thick are they?
However the finished floor is attached to the house, what will those fasteners be projecting into?
Hardwood Floor Orientation
Thanks for the response.
Yes, ths flooring is tongue and groove. It is my understanding that Caribbean Pine is as stable (and hard) as oak.
I believe the radiant panels are screwed to the subfloor.
What will the fasteners be projected into? Well, that's the big question. Is the combination of the radiant panels and the subfloor sufficient to run the hardwood parallel to the joists?
How do you run fasteners into a radiant panel (other than "very carefully")?
Radiant floor heat panels
Obviously, care must be taken not to hit the PEX. But the PEX is only a small percentage of the panel which also provides some stablitiy in addition to the proper spacing.
So, no real answers as to the orientation yet...
Subfloor may be key
So are you going to trust screws driven through 3/4" osb to hold flooring flat? Is that flooring vertical grain? Flat sawn? Sealed equally top and bottom? I've heard lots of stories of people purchasing hardwoods from far off locals only to be shocked when those materials change dramatically after transportation.
Seems like a lot of variables here.
I think in this case you pay your money and take your chances. I don't like the sounds of this at all (regardless of which way you orient your floorbaords) and one main concern is the material you used as a subfloor, which I'm guessing you've already (had) installed. Add in all the other variables that spring to mind and I think you have a high probability for disappoinment on your hands.
If you were my brother I'd advise you to rethink your overall plan.
If you were my son I'd look you in the eye and spend however much time it took until I knew you had heard my objections, then I'd wish you luck, but I wouldn't have any part in it.
It's a bad plan. Plain and simple.
perpendicular to...
If you install the climate panels parallel to the floor joists (which is allowed), then the flooring will be run perpendicular to the floor joists. If you install the climate panels perpendicular to the floor joists (which is also allowed) then the flooring will be parallel to the floor joists.
So one or the other (climate panels or flooring) will be perpendicular to the floor joists. Both methods are allowed.
The thing you have to honor is that in all installations the flooring has to be installed perpendicular to the climate panels, or perpendicular to the runs of PEX. That way you can fasten the flooring to the panels in the spaces between the runs of PEX. Your main concern will be when you get to the walls where the tubing make a "U" turn under a flooring board. It's done, it's not a big deal, you just need to be cognizant of where you are nailing.
So simply figure out which way you want the flooring to run and install the climate panels perpendiclar to that.
Additional info you may not care about or you may have already addressed that sort of piggybacks on some fo the concerns the others have brought up:
In general it's best to install an engineered wood floor over RFH due to potential wood movement. With that in mind, some species of wood move more than others. Maple versus pine, for example. And with THAT in mind, some cuts of wood move more than others. Flatsawn versus quarter-sawn for example.
On top of that, if you are going to use solid wood strip flooring, it's better to install narrower boards rather than wider boards. The more strips you have the more it'll mask the signs of wood movement. For a completely exagerrated example: Let's say pine expands and contracts 1/4" per 12" of board width. If you used 12" wide floor boards, you'd have just one flooring board over that 12" width, o that single board would do all the moving. You'd potentially have a 1/4" gap between adjacent 12" wide floor boards. Not good.
If you instead went with 3" wide floor boards, you'd now have four strips of wood over that 12" width, so the 1/4" of movement would be masked by four joints instead of one, with each joint opening up 1/16". Much less apparent to the eye.
Hope all that makes sense.
5" Caribbean Heart Pine
Thank you for that comprehensive answer!
It sort of confirms what the RFH guy told me - "Its your house." By that I think he meant that I can decide based upon aesthetics, that the installation of the RFH panels would be installed by my prefereence for the flooring.
I think I'm going to follow the industry standard and run the flooring away from my front door (parallel to the floor joists).
Now, should I opt for a narrow strip?
5" Caribbean Heart Pine
Thank you for that comprehensive answer!
It sort of confirms what the RFH guy told me - "Its your house." By that I think he meant that I can decide based upon aesthetics, that the installation of the RFH panels would be installed by my prefereence for the flooring.
I think I'm going to follow the industry standard and run the flooring away from my front door (parallel to the floor joists).
Now, should I opt for a narrow strip?
Janka Hardness
Here are the 'specs' on the 5" Caribbean Heart Pine -
http://www.stangelohardwoods.com/chp/
St. Angelo...
The Small World Syndrome:
I used to order loads of teak and mahogany from St. Angelo!
I guess Walt Disney was right!
ask the installer
"Now, should I opt for a narrow strip? "
It is a safer choice.
But I'd discuss it with your flooring installer. It's important that he acclimate the flooring to the house prior to installation, which is a standard thing to do. But discuss your concerns regarding wood movement so that they will have already been a point of discussion BEFORE the installation.
You want to allow him to give you the best installation that he can give you. If he assures you that he can give you an installation that will perform well with 5" boards, and you want 5" boards, well then there you go.
It's simply a matter of you and your installer being on the same page ahead of time.