Hey guys..
I have a bungalow built in 1965 that I knew was close to needing new shingles when I purchased it 18 months ago.
Its not a very sloped roof, maybe a 7/12 pitch.
I am fairly good with tools, have training as an electrician(schooling) and pretty experienced with automotive work.
I purchased the finehomebuilding book on shingling. So I understand what I need to do.
My question is, on a bugalow with a surface area of 42×26 feet how big a job is this considered to be? Can it be done by myself or with a helper?
I dont know what to expect in terms of timeframe.. also thinking about maybe doing the roof that faces the back yard first then the front.
Im just worried that from far it wont look pretty.(straight and level shingle lines, equal spacing..)
Any advice would be appreciated.
Replies
Have to tell us where what state or area you are located in and a pic really helps to decipher accurately.
If you are attentive to detail you should be able to accomplish a passable product without too many complications
unless yer in Seattle somewhere and decide to do the tearoff and the whole thing yerself.
be just so's ya knows
Peach full,
easy feelin'.
Im in montreal canada...Ill try an find a pic to upload... thanks
HELLO!!!!!
I'm in DDO and have a 17 year old and his buddies just itchin fer work.
Just please what for the snow to clear huh!!!!!"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
You need to proofread what you write before you hit that post button.
be what?now wait a minute...
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Sure! Go for it. I mean, the instructions are on the package.
When people ask me, I tell them to remember the last guys they saw doing that, and how it looked like they could hardly feed themselves, and wasn't it amazing they could find their way home?
Forrest
As Forrest says, the instructions are on the package.
Read them & you're already ahead of 50% of the roofers out there.
Joe H
come to think of it i never read the package either but you know how we men are about directions.
There's directions on the package???
You guys can read?
You don't need to read. There are pictures. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yeah, it says to peel those little plastic strips off and let them blow away.
Joe H
is that near the part where your GAAy {not that theres anything wrong with that} if you snap lines???
Are you planning on doing a tear-off and re-roof or re-roof over existing shingles?
Is the roof decking solid? Is there metal drip-edge on both eaves and rakes?
Are you using straight 3-tab shingles or achitectural shingles?
Do you have shingling brackets and planks for staging?
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Running straight is the least of your worries. You got any valleys or a chimney to flash?
A monkey can run the straight lines the above mentioned areas make it worth it (to me anyway) to let a pro do it.
I am a builder but I still use a roof crew when I get a call for one.
I'm not a roofer, I'm a builder. Last roof that was done on a house I was working on, the homeowner went around me and got a roofer, who charged 2K more then I was going to, then she had to pay me another 2K to fix all the flashing problems when the first rain hit, and the roofer was long gone...I still would rather pay someone else to do the roof, but I know if I do it, it's going to be done well. I think anyone that can read and measure can do their own roof, if they have the proper equipment to do so. But I would recommend the OP get a good book on roofing first, and read it. To the OP: Rooflines on bungalows are usually pretty straightforward, but a picture would help us point out potential trouble spots.Steve
Yours will probably look as good or better than most average "pros".
Read the shingle package wrapping. Everything you need to know about roofing is on there.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You can do it. As mentioned earlier, the shingle package tells you everything you need to know about installing the shingles. However, it doesn't tell you a thing about getting the old roof off and to the landfill, replacing rotten wood, keeping the inside of the house dry while you're doing the project, getting the shingles to the roof and flashing penetrations.
Bone up on that stuff and get a good plan before tearing into it and most important of all, tie off.
If the surface area is 42x26, you've got about 11 squares of shingles. Is there more than one layer on the roof now? A lot of the bungaloes around here had cedar shingles on split sheathing on them and got a layer of asphalt on top of the cedar. They require resheathing after stripping and cedar will fill up a container quickly.
Have fun.
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
You can do it alone. I would estimate about two days for the installation once you have the old roof off and have made any necessary repairs to the deck.
Once the old shingles are off, put on the felt paper with the red caps or green caps or whatever. This will protect the structure from unexpected rain and you can take your time installing the shingles, flashing, etc.
I don't know where 2 days comes from, but without air tools you will be lucky to be done in 3 days.
7/12 needs roof brackets, learning curve right there.
The homeowner better be prepared for a lot of hard work.
I'm guessing that he will get a gun - rent, borrow, or buy and sell afterward. They are not that expensive and worth it even for one job.
I'm assuming all prep work is done and leaving two days just for the shingling. I think that is reasonable unless there are complications, which he didn't mention.
I would not use brackets for a 7/12. Nobody around here ever uses brackets for a 6/12, and there is not really much difference.
He sounds pretty capable, considering his mechanical skill set and the analytical skills necessary for the electric work. After all, he bought a book and came here with his questions before starting.
I say he can do it. In any case, even if it takes him four days, it will not make a big difference once he has the felt and whatever metal he needs in place.
Edited 3/16/2008 7:20 pm ET by Sasquatch
I would not use brackets for a 7/12. Nobody around here ever uses brackets for a 6/12, and there is not really much difference.
I will gladly trade you $6 for $7 since there is not that much difference. I have had two serious falls in my 25 yr roofing career. One was off a "flat" roof and one was off "flat" scaffolding. I've also bought a plumber a new windshield because my hammer slowly slipped off a 5/12 roof when I layed it down and thought it wouldn't slide.
A row of jacks across the bottom is cheap insurance.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
I agree with you. I have the jacks, and would use them. I don't think for a one-time job at the leisurely pace of an owner, they are absolutely necessary. It really depends on the individual. I also did not recommend that they not be used. After all, they are dirt cheap at the big box, and can be installed in minutes.
I am not advocating that they should not be used on a 7/12. That was not what my post was about.
I have framed an number of 12/12 roofs. They are tricky for the framer, trickier for the roofer. You have to have a strong sense of self-preservation to do that kind of work on a regular basis without accidents.
I have also seen many steep roofs where some of our excellent hispanic friends are able to do shingles and shakes with almost no barriers or safety features. More power to them; but I don't advocate that either.
I don't think you can reasonably compare the difference between $6 and $7 with the difference in a 6/12 and a 7/12 roof. You can't even reasonably compare the difference between $6 and $7 with the difference between $6 billion and $7 billion. The 6 and 7 are just numbers until an application and a meaning is attached, but I can understand why you used them to make your point.
My guys normally don't use jacks on anything less than 8/12. But they're pros. I'm giving advice to a civilian and trying to make his job as easy as possible. Things will slide off a 7/12. Jacks will catch them. He's working alone, so a dropped hammer is an extra trip to the ground when he's trying to put the tarp on for the night.
The worst accident I've ever had occured when I fell off a flat roof. There's a lot of things I used to do, that I don't anymore since I've banged myself up.
I'm encouraging the guy to DIY. But, how much did he save doing his roof himself if he has to buy one of those motorized wheelchairs.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Grant----- I am with you on the use of jacksIn 20 years I have fallen 3 times--plus one close call.--2 falls from garage roof(1 story)---1 fall from wooden ladder breaking(grandpas)---close call---also garage--stepped over from sunny side of roof onto frosted side of roof, slid down to bottom of roof and Jumped onto neighbors garage roof(sunny side--it was only about 4 feet away)all of these were one story walkable roofsstatistically--- i would say these are the most dangerous--- I am used to steeper,non-walkable roofs-----so on some level I don't fully respect the 7/12 or 8/12 pitch( the ones I fell from were 4/12!current job( the one we WON'T be working today because of rain)--about 7/12 or 8 /12---darn right I am putting up 90 degree roof jacks along the eaves.BTW-- this certainley isn't directed at YOU, Grant---but there is a certain school of thought that believes roofing is something a trained monkey can doWell---if you have the strength, agility and over-all athletic ability of a trained monkey---go ahead and give it a try.--It's only fair to warn you---i put my 2 sons through 13 years of private schools---and now college---primarily fixing the mistakes of people who thought like that.--Yes-any idiot can do it--feel free to believe that---right up untill the point you find out that YOU are also an idiot and that one of the things that WAS NOT included on the "wrapper"--is causing you a leak that you can NOT track down.Perhaps we should start a photo thread" a trained monkey could do it" ?
Best wishes all----
Stephen
Funny you mention the 8/12. I have the damdest time on an 8. I did a huge cedar tearoff, put on 30lb, cedar breather and shingles at 12/12..had most of 20 sq. before I slid down a valley, and someone here ( Grant maybe) said "yer nuts, get some jacks up there" so I did. It was nice for stocking the roof, but I wasn't relying on them for anything..I finally did rope off to a chimney when doing a section over some nasty Holly trees.
I've been comfortable ( more or less) on any other pitch, up to "stoopid steep" and below 8/12..but that number must be just some bad joo-joo for me.
Lucky my house is 10/12 standing seam and 2.5/12 archies. I'd rather have a chicken ladder held on with vice grips on a 12/12, then have to shingle an 8.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
just for a reference point, here is what my roof and home look like.
If it was mine, I'd allow myself 4 days or so, but I have done a lot of roofing of all types, and I don't TRY to be the fastest.
Solo tearoff oneside a day (light)
Shingle oneside a day ( again, an easy day)
Repeat for the back
Allow for dumprun, cleanup, any odds and ends flashing wise.
I have a gun, and enough hoses, I would jack the edges at least, just to save the gutters from wayward tearoff debris and a place for the radio and nails, water cooler jug.
As some others are relating tho' that pitch can wear ya out chasing stuff...don't forget a foamie couch cushion for the knees, and I try to work out of the sun..if one part has sun in the afternoon, but not morning, I'll start my day there if possible.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Oh, add a half day to fabricate and redo the chimney properly, no goop..showing or hidden.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Wow, that's a roof EVERYONE wishes they could start with.
Really, I think this will be a a realatively easy and fast operation.
Just to stir the pot a bit...
Since you are redoing the roof, now is an EXCELLENT time to consider something a little more radical to better insulate the roof. You could for instance put down a layer of 4" of ridgid foam board, then a new deck on top of that. You could also remove your existing sheathing and lay down Tyvec. They have special spacers that push them down far enough to be air vent scutes. They are taut and you can blow celulose right up against it.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
that is not a 7/12 pitch, more like a 5/12
He is right - that is no-where near a 7/12.
It also looks like it is larger than it seemed from your information. Maybe you were giving out the footprint of the house????It can be an easy job there. Get a trailer or dumpster right in the driveway under the roof edge. You can carry all the debris there and flop it right down in. Almost no ground cleanup that way. That is a walk on with no brackets but do use either fall arrest harness or a perimeter.The chimney in the photo looks strange. You may have difficulty there. It might be a metal imitation or it is poorly flashed and recoated with black goo that you will need to scrape and clean to get back to exposing masonry so you can flash it. If I see what I think I see there, you cannot flash it to keep water out that way
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Lots of good advice here. The #1 thing I hated the most about DIY'ing my roof was carrying the shingles up the ladder. If I was doing it again and didn't get a delivery guy with a boom I'd definitely rent a lift, even if only for a couple hours to get them all up.I doubt it would be wise to load them all onto the same spot, though, for the same reason it sucks to carry them up the ladder - they're heavy!When I did mine several years back there wasn't too much in the way of membranes, or at least I was ignorant about what was available. I'm a couple hours south of you, but we've had awful ice here for the first time, so if I were you I'd research the anti-ice-dam membranes. I can't give any first-hand advice, but I'm sure others here can. I did my roof by hand-nailing, but I would use a power nailer next time, not for the speed or because it's difficult to nail, but for the nail management aspects - the nails are exactly where you need them to be, one-handed. I'd rent this one - I have the nailers I usually need already.Consider the underlayment carefully - lined is a no-brainer, but some of the cheaper stuff rips easily, and some other kinds are slippery. I should have bought better quality stuff, mine ripped a couple times and had to be re-done. If your underlayment is compatible, buy a tack hammer - they save a huge amount of time and are cheap.Oh, and don't go for the cheapest drip-edge either, get the wider stuff - you have more margin for error.I really enjoyed being up on the roof for most of the week. We have nice views here, and I saw lots of wildlife that I usually don't see (turns out I have a golden eagle who visits the property). I wouldn't have enjoyed doing it in bad weather, I'm sure! Have fun!
"the nails are exactly where you need them to be, one-handed. "how in the world do you manage to place them where you don't want them by hand nailing???
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
how in the world do you manage to place them where you don't want them by hand nailing???
Oh, it's not a matter of placing them in the wrong spot, it's that you have to place them. Take them out of the nail pouch, get them over to the right spot, whoops dropped a nail, whoops the shingle just slid or got bumped a bit, etc. I'd rather have one hand holding the shingle in place and the other holding the nailer.
I imagine experienced roofers get the rhythm down and don't blunder as often.
Oh, one more thing to add: I got a rolling magnetic cleanup gizmo, and that made cleaning up the nails I did drop pretty easy. Now I pull it out at the end of any outdoor project to save on flats on the lawn mower.
OK, I see - your emphasis was on the on the handedness
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
RE: Underlayment, products such as Titainium UDL specifically state NO STAPLES , so tack hammer is best for roofing felt, button heads for Synthetics.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I don't like the tack hammer for felt, especially 15#.
I've not used 15# in 15 yrs I'd say. Same reason.
I know some here disagree but I have a button stapler ( bostitch) and I DO use that for tarpaper , tyvec, or UDL. The orange buttons don't last as long as the nailed version, but if its getting covered in a short time ( 3 months of full sun is the end) no matter.
I got some flat fingers from hand nailing both short roofers and short caps..so I sprung for the gun..for getting 30lb sidewall covering on solo, it's the ticket.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Unless your staples are round, they can't be used with Titanium. I called them to ask specificly about button cap staplers: They said the fastener penetrating the plastic must be round to avoid tearing the material with a sharp edge.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
Unless your staples are round, they can't be used with Titanium.
The Titanium will long outlast the caps on those staple caps if there's a great deal of open time. They must be thinner than the nail caps.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
I'm not saying it won't work, I'm saying installing it with square fasteners is SPECIFICLY forbidden by the manufacturer. Even with a cap, "no staples" printed every foot really means "no staples".Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
I'm saying it doesn't work.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
I put Titanium on as roof, 8/12 pitch, with the stinger cap stapler. Left it uncovered for about a month. It leaked substantially enough at the fasteners that we had to put out a couple of buckets in heavy rains. I like the walking surface of the Titanium. You stick to even when it's wet, but I wouldn't use a cap stapler on it again.I dislike the roof-top guard II. The fabric covering will ball up under your foot if you put enough sideways pressure on it and you will slip suddenly. Not a fun sensation.Steve
Thats why I try to get it under cover ASAP. And if it's my house I don't excited if there is a rip, which BTW has not happened, and I had parts of areas exposed over a yr.
The staples to me are not a problem even in the wind, its the caps that degrade from UV.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I've done six or seven roofs DIY, volunteer, and helping family. I enjoy it, and plan to do the roof on my current house when the time comes. Here are a few things I've learned about roofing, as well as the help that often comes to DIY projects in exchange for a good meal. Hope it helps.
Give yourself plenty of time - the week off makes sense. If your employer gives you the flexibility to postpone the week based on weather, all the better.
On my first roof, I took plenty of time to study every step, figure out materials and process, etc beforehand. I wasn't efficient, but I was happy with the roof when I finished.
When buying the shingles, make sure they are all the same dye lot. If this is not possible or a few others are inadvertantly mixed on, be sure to shuffle the bundles and shingles around on the roof as you put them down.
Figure everything out before you have anyone on the roof with you. If someone is standing around looking bored, send them out of sight and take your time. Flashing is the trickiest part - particularly with masonry. You can get a rough idea of how much sheathing will need replaced by walking the roof and looking in the attic. Buy twice the amount of sheathing you think you need (and don't forget nails for it).
I snap chalklines. Less now than I used to. Even if you trust yourself, relatives and friends will not be accurate. It's also easier to snap a line than make sure the lined felt goes on perfectly straight. On my first roof I got myself all turned around measuring and had to switch colors and start over. I think I forgot to include the first exposure when I snapped the lines all the way up the roof, or forgot to leave room for the drip edge and 1/4" overhang. Don't snap any lines until you have two rows nailed down. Vertical lines aren't necessary if you use architectural shingles.
If you are replacing the roof vent spend the extra money on a good shingle-over style. For a garage or shed you might use the cheaper aluminum stuff, but for a house it's too much of a risk.
I've somehow had a backhoe or front-end loader available for most roofs I've done. They are very nice for tearing off into and for raising bundles. However, it will tear up the yard a bit and may not reach over shrubs. Also be careful who runs it and is around it - the hydraulics can't be trusted to hold. If you park it at the edge of the roof with a load of shingles and shut it down the bucket will slowly sag and crush the gutter. I was helping a friend on a roof and constantly found myself climbing down off the roof to move the tractor after he'd lifted shingles. The hydraulics also don't have the appropriate safety equipment for lifting humans or standing under them.
Roof brackets are definitely worth the money. I've not had the luxury of scaffolding, but I do have a set of ladder jacks for working on the edges. Much better than leaning downhill.
The shingle removing shovels are also worth the money. Don't tear off more than you can cover in tar paper / underlayment before it rains. If using tar paper, be sure to have plenty of button-caps on hand to fasten the edges down when a storm rolls in.
As others mentioned, have plastic tarps on hand, as well. Plastic sheeting is cheap insurance to cover a roof quickly. It is also slippery when dry, and very slippery when wet. Don't assume that your free help will understand that fastening a loose corner in the rain is a bad idea. Even when told (somehow they didn't fall).
If your tool budget still has money after safety equipment, then you may want to buy or rent a gun. It's not a must, but if you do get one, get matching brand name nails. I use a Bostitch, and it doesn't take well to cheap nails. Have regular nails on hand in case the gun breaks half an hour before dinner.
Having seen your photo, I'll re-interate what Piffin and a few others have mentioned: that's no 7/12; it's more like a 4 or 5, both of which pitches are very common here in Québec for bungalow construction of that period. That is a walkable roof for anyone who oughta be up there at all (in other words, if you can't walk that roof comfortably, hire someone and stay on the ground).
It is quite possible you could shingle it without too much trouble. For a first-time DIYer, you should allow yourself 6-7 days to strip and shingle. (BTW, I'm talking about 10-hour-plus days. You use all the good weather you've got when you're roofing.)
But stripping and shingling is not all that roofing entails. Here is where you've got to be aware of some potential problems.
The likelihood is high you will have some rot in the roof deck, framing, and fascia to cut out and replace, especially around the eaves; most roofs of that shape and age up here do. Possibly the soffit will need to be replaced; depending on what it is made of. You can hope the rafter tails (or trusses) aren't partly rotted, but you won't know till you get up there and look (or until you feel the roof sag under you when you walk on certain spots).
That chimney flashing does look weird, as Piffin noted, and it looks like there's some kind of second chimney or cupola (for vent stacks?) on the back slope of the roof. Figuring on the probability of having to re-do those. Can't see any other roof penetrations aside from the Hydro mast, but each one will slow you down, especially as those which weren't properly flashed and have leaked over the years may need roof-deck repair around them.
For your ice & snow membrane, that roof is a good candidate for Blueskin. I'd lay one or two courses of it at the eaves, depending on how far they overhang the building wall (it looks like it's at least 18" but it's hard to tell from a photo). With that pitch, you want to be covered with membrane a full three feet above the building wall. Especially on the south face of the roof. Laying membrane on a roof without a helper is possible (assuming it's got split backing paper) but it could be nerve-wracking for a first-timer. The PSA is so sticky on that stuff, you can ruin a big piece of membrane easily by allowing it to just touch the wood in the wrong place. (Don't ask me how I know this, LOL....)
If you're good with a circ and a hammer and aren't afraid to learn how to flash the penetrations properly, and have a helper to hump shingles and hold the other ends of long things (drip edges, fascia boards, membrane, felt, etc.) on windy days, etc., you could be done in a week to 10 days.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I actually find a 7/12 exhausting----you fight it all day thinking-- I don't need jacks----but everything wants to slide-especially with wet paper bundles---all day long i am fighting it-----just so i don't have to put in a few jacks.regular people wouldn't believe it----- but in many ways a 12/12 is actually easier than a 7/12 or 8/12--espesially if someone else is carrying the bundles.
stephen
Yeah, on a 12, you KNOW stuff is gonna go down..kinda like me taking off a table saw gaurd, I wanna SEE the blade thats gonna try to get my fingers..LOL A KNOWN potential for trouble is easier to understand, than those.."Huh, who'da thunk THAT would happen?"Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I'm surprised no one mentioned foam cushions as a way to keep shingles and roofers from sliding on a 7.
I only use jacks on tearoffs, or on roofs over a 10.
If you have help that can't shingle the field, they probably can't walk and breathe at the same time.
the foam cushions are a good point---- i haven't climbed on a roof to work without old couch cushions--in about 11 years
it's the single greatest idea I have learned/stolen from a sub.- Brilliant
BUT----on a 8/12--you can put an UN_OPENED bundle on the cushion and it willstay put---once you tear off the wrapper-----it will wanna slide around------the bottom few will stay put for me---the top 3/4 the bundle start sliding.
a lot of roofs I do now-- I set a pic along the bottom edge---do the first 6 courses from the pic/ladder jacks----then setup roof jacks---and roof the rest of it from the cushions.
If anything--the pic---is a bigger time saver than the cushions.
once you are used to it---it is VERY fast to set up--it more than pays for itself.
stephen
I used to do 8/12 with no brackets or fall harness.Now I use brackets on 7/12. Sometimes on 6/12I remember once meeting a retired state cop who was doing his own roof. He was 72YO and complaining that he was only getting 6-8 sq a day on his 8/12 hand nailing. It was his first roof.I told him that as good as his work looked, he could have a job with me anytime he wanted it with a rate like that. Darned old fart turned me down! Can you believe it?! Said when he was finished, that was the last roof he was ever getting up onto!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Darned old fart turned me down! Can you believe it?! Said when he was finished, that was the last roof he was ever getting up onto!
LOL. I guess he didn't appreciate the View From The Top....
I'll walk a 10/12 for inspection or estimating, but I won't work on anything over a 7 without jacks. Just too much extra effort.
I am also very partial to full scaffolding along the eaves. In addition to making those first four or five courses a helluva lot easier to nail down (I mean, who really likes working leaning downslope?), I kinda like the idea of a backstop....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Frankly, I agree with him. I am always saying that I will never get back on a roof.
On the other hand, this spring, I am going to get back on my 12/12 to reflash two skylights that were done by professionals two years before I bought the house. I figure I can do a better job. At least I know that when I get done, they will not leak.
I will be using jacks. Actually, I'm looking forward to it since it will give me a chance to use my new, inexpensive, Harbor Freight brake.
I would go so far as to recommend using one of the premium underlayments, like roof-top guard or titanium. That way he's pretty well protected for months if need be. Also, they are much safer to walk around on.Steve
Steve,
You are spot-on with your recommendation to use a premium underlayment like Titanium UDL. It can buy a lot of time for someone working single-handely, as it can dry-in the roof for weeks or months, before all the shingling is done.
Plus it's lightweight, and easy to carry up to the roof.
I spent weeks putting on white cedar shingle roof. My work time was very limited; on a good day, I'd install maybe four courses. The Titanium UDL really made it possible (I couldn't be tarping and untarping for just a couple hours' work!)..
During the time before the flashing and shingling is done, some creativity is required around chimneys and other penetrations. My own DIY roofing project included some plaster repair because of the chimney "challenge."
My roof has a slope of 4-in-12. I was comfortable working on that; not sure I'd want to tackle the OP's 7-in-12!
Allen
Edited 3/17/2008 11:24 am ET by WNYguy
Edited 3/17/2008 11:26 am ET by WNYguy
It's entirely possible that you could do a very nice job
It's entirely PROBABLE- that it is going to be much more work than you envision
and while a shingle wrapper gives you good information about how to do 90-95% of the roof-typically roofing problems come from the OTHER 5-10% of things NOT covered on the wrapper
and- it's only fair to mention- i am a roofing contractor-and quite a few times each season-ALWAYS on a monday morning-about 7:00AM- i will recieve phone calls from people-(usually a guy and his brother in-law-) who decided to save money by doing their own roof. Problem is-they spent saturday and sunday tearing off the roof-it's now monday and they have to go back to their real jobs-and their roof is totally uncovered.
Be absolutely certain you know what you are getting into-and maybe read the thread about "Broken stilletto"-a decent description of what happens when even a highly experienced guy falls off a roof.
Best wishes to you,stephen
I appreciate all the responses, and I actually expected to get flamed a little more.I am doing all the research because even though I honestly believe that I am able to strip the old shingles, lay the proper underlayment, ice and water shield, drip edges, flashing on the chimney and vent stack.. I am wondering how long it would take me and I actually need to calculate the financial savings I would see with all this effort.I am trying to foresee what unknown challenges I could see and try and plan for them... replacing rotten plywood.. etc..I am in the planning stage right now and if I can feel comfortable about every detail, possible challenge and safety issues I wont tackle this project.Thanks again...
Like Hazett said i get calls to but sometimes i get them on Sunday, they are all to sore to continue and beg me to finish, If one does not do roofing one will hurt in places you did not even know were there, Get knee pads and a foam cushion from a old couch and always sit on it while workin
When I used to get those, "Please come and help me" calls was in october when the snow was turning the high country white and they suddenly realized that time was running out....
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I think you can do it... but... ok 12sq's if you purchase the materials... for a standard good 3 tab... with everything thats... what $500 ? do you guys not have hispanics up there? for $500 labor i could get it torn off and hauled away and they'd clean up... they'd start at 5am and be done and gone before 3pm... now thats for single story and not too much flashing... they'd use whatever materials you purchased...
do you really want to spend a week on your roof for $500?
p
That is an unbeleavable response.
Fill out your profile so we can tell people to do what you do cheap.
hate like heck to have one of those hispanics fall off that roof.
just the facts... it's every roof that gets done around here... hispanics and a truck.. a few gas powered air compressors a trailer to hual off with... and some helpers haul'n shingles and clean'n up....
it's the norm around here...
for the record.. i do my own builts ups and torchdown... and every building i ever put a roof on i owned...
but i know going rates around here... sorry didn't mean to offend you... the market here is full of cheap labor... but then you can buy a house for under 40k here too...
$5 a board to hang 12ft 5/8 board even if it's 18ft in the air..., a pretty standard 1200sf slab... set the forms and finish is about $1800 or less....
no one can do what i do any cheaper than i do it...
things are what they are
p
fill out your profile!
Where do you live?
I rebuilt my garage roof - down to the rafters. I also redid a bunch more - it was quite a project.
Remember the DIY rule: If it doesn't cost twice as much and take ten times as long as you thought, you didn't do it right. That said, you will still end up with a better roof than you could afford otherwise.
My advice:
With a 7:12 roof, you need roof jacks. I would think about putting up scaffolding under the eave of the roof too, just to catch all the stuff that will slide down.
You can easily do one side at a time. Take the time to work out the flashing, vent stacks, and drip edges. Think also about any roof venting, now would be a good time to incorporate a ridge vent.
Before you start, plan your tarp. I assume you have a life that doesn't involve roofing. Expect it to intrude always. Having your tarps ready to roll over your exposed areas will save your butt many times.
Use the newest best materials. People use felt because they've always used felt. No other real good reason to use it. For you, the learing curve is that same for felt as it is for a modern underlayment like Titanium UDF or Rooftop Guard. I used Titanium, it was very easy. You need to hand nail the plastic cap nails (guns to do this are rare) but that goes pretty fast.
Read the instructions for everything! Ask the people here too.
Talk to your building inspector before you start. See if there are any details they REALLY care about in your location, and if any materials are specificly forbidden.
Once you get started, it is surprisingly easy to get straight lines. As long as you've done your measurments first!
Subscribe to this web site, you can download articles that will help.
Harbor Freight has a basic roofing nailer that is good for us "one roof roofers"
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
adroga
Go to the Tractor supply store and buy 20'x 30' tarps, enough to cover one side. If you don't have to use them then return them. If you do have to use them they will be real cheap insurance.
Do one side at a time. Tear it off, paper it and shingle it. Then do the other.
On 7/12 I would use toe holds (roof jacks). At least at the bottom. On a 7/12 the bundles are going to want to slide on the roof so you might as well have some toe holds.
The most important details are the flashings.
Rich
Consider it this way:
If it were at ground level, shingling would be one of the simpler jobs of house repair.
Read up on it and figure out how you're going to get rid of all the tear-off debris and how you're going to be ready to cover everything if you get bad weather before you finish the job.
Then add in the height factor. Some good staging at or just below the eves, good ladders, and some roof jacks to hold you and the materials. Rent a safety system to tie yourself off. And tie off your ladders too!
The rest is just heavy work and following instructions. Sort of like the military - everyone ought to do it once. Good experience, and you will save some money.
Good luck.
I'm in Mont-Tremblant, and I do a fair amount of roofing up here. My first piece of advice is to ignore what Ponytl wrote; it doesn't work that way in Québec...for a lotta reasons I'm not gonna waste time going into.
Secondly, as you probably know right about now--with anywhere from four to seven feet of snowpack on your roof--if a roof up here isn't done right, you find out as soon as the temps get near 0º and the sun hits the south face of the roof. You also find out real quick if the roof isn't properly vented. My bet is if you haven't shoveled your roof yet, you've probably had at least one or two small ice-dam leaks; likely more but not all of them will work themselves all the way into the livable space where you can see them. When the tear-off is done on your roof this spring is when you're going to find out how bad things are and how long they've been that way.
I have no doubt you could learn OTJ to do a decent enough shingling job...on a new roof deck, and one with not too many penetrations, valleys, hips, yadda-yadda. But at a minimum your bungalow probably has a plumbing vent stack (which is a nasty source of heat that will cause ice damming down-slope) and a Hydro mast. If you have dormers up there it gets even more complicated, as it does if you've got a woodstove chimney.
If you'd be interested in having me take a look at it in the spring, shoot me a private e-mail through the message board here and we'll hook up on the phone. At a minimum, I could give you a real opinion on whether or not you ought to try this yourself, and if you do, how long it should take you.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I did my own 60-square roofing job last summer. I'm retired, so time spent was not critical. I did it a section at a time, had all the roof brackets, planks, tarps, tools from doing it 30 years previously, same house. Since I'm older now, i also used a manlift to take me and the shingles up the three stories to the roof. THAT WaS GREAT!
I bought a compressor and nailer for this job -- absolutely the right thing to do. Don;t give that a second thought!
I am you.I own a bungalow the same size with a 7/12 roof that I DIY'd this past sumer.Of course you can do it. The two biggest hurdles (other than assuring yourself that you won't fall off the roof) are;1) What is on the roof now? 1 layer? 2? 3!? What is the underlayment? Can you see it from the underside of the roof (attic) to judge whether or not it needs to be replaced? Replacing the sheething is simple in concept, but will add lots of exposure time to your project, will pretty much eliminate the chance to do smaller sections at a time, and be downright dangerous if you are working by yourself (how are you going to hump the sheets up there in a wind by yourself?).2) Are there complications like rotten facia or complicated valleys and flashing? Any of these situations can be dealt with, but they add timeTarps are important, yes. But more important is enough pre-planning to assure that, by the end of each day, you have tar paper carefully layed and secured. Then nail some wood scrap on top to act as a cleat and then hump a bunch of packages of shingles up there. It helps hold the paper down in the wind and you'll be ready to start shingling the next day as soon as you step outside. (the last thing you want to do first thing is hump shingles). If it rains at a normal rate, you're fine. The only worry is a deluge or high wind.I would highly recommend the "architectural" style shingles. They hide a multitude of imperfections. The nicest benefit I see is that you never have to worry about lining up the splits in the 3-tabs. Every square-cut scrap you cut off can be used as a starter in the next row. The only thing to watch for is to avoid having two identical patterned shingles winding up on top of one another - it does look a little goofy if you look close. You would need to buy special ridge caps though and they are silly expensive.I never snapped a line, but I used to actually measure every few shingles to make sure I didn't wander too much. Then I started using tar paper rolls with preprinted lines and layed the paper carefully. Now it's a cinch. Even if you don't follow the lines exactly, you can eyeball it without worrying about getting off by more than a 1/2 inch.I've never used a gun. I'm sure it's fast. But at 7/12 pitch I'm not going to be moving fast anyway. I know I'm better off setting my butt on the roof, using my grandfather's lightweight hammer and doing it by hand. Think of it as a Zen experience.Good luck (and be careful!)
Go for it. You can do it, but I'll tell ya, you'll have a new appreciation for roofers when you're done. Not to discourage you. I did a similar roof on my own house and that is my sentiment. Up and down the ladder, humping bundles, knees, ankles, hands with fiberglass splinters and scuffed up knuckles. Those f'n plastic strips. Yes I tore EACH ONE off.I removed all the old stuff and hand nailed. I did everything right, rebuilt the upper chimney, flashing, ice & water, drip edge, added ridge vent, and it all looks good.Get your shingles from a real yard, not big box. The yard will boom them up on the roof and it won't cost you any more. Tip the driver. Help with snapping chalk lines would be nice. My house was moved and the roof was all over the place, so I snapped more lines than a more experience roofer who may have set the tar paper and was confident to use those lines.I used a hammer; don't know if a gun would be any quicker, since setting the shingle seemed to be the limiting step, for me. You can get a big roll of polyethylene sheeting cheaper than a big tarp. Check out Bullseye, or some other asbestos abatement supplier. Work fast.
>>Those f'n plastic strips. Yes I tore EACH ONE off<<Um, you do know that is completely unnecessary, don't you? Did you ever see in print anywhere that you were supposed to remove those?That is a cruel joke we play on the new guy...Seriously...Steve
plastic strips...black diamonds...SSsshhhhhhh!Yer giving away all the secrets!<g>
mmoogie said, "Um, you do know that is completely unnecessary, don't you? Did you ever see in print anywhere that you were supposed to remove those?"
---
Yeah, I heard you didn't have to take them off, and after I started I thought, "roofers would be slowed down too much if they had to pull off the strips and even if you were supposed to, most probably do not".But, I think shingles will stick better without the plastic.
"I think shingles will stick better without the plastic."They won't.The purpose of the plastic strip is to keep them from sticking to each other while stacked directly up in the bundles. Once you offset five inches to install, then the plastic strip is no longer aligned over the seal-down goo so it does nothing to change the way it seals.
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Do what you do best and pay for the rest.
webought the dustfoe too ... from Mine Safety
here's what they have to say on their site
http://www.msanet.com/emessage/articles/APR-Dustfoe-1.html
Well, I agree that you can do it yourself. A few tips: architectural shingles (vs. 3 tabbers) are a lot more forgiving to install--you almost don't have to worry about straight lines. See if you can get the shingles delivered onto the roof top. I am an old guy, and if the shingles are on the roof, I can lay about 5 squares in a day, working alone. Then you have to add in tear off, flashing chimneys if any, cleanup, etc. I'd figure a week for a HO doing his first roof. I'm a builder, and I had my roof replaced this year--I hired it done.
I won't get into the issue of if you can.
I will tell you about a buddy with over 15 years of framing and roofing who decided he needed only one improperly fastened set of jacks to work off of.
He now has a $45,000 investment in Titanium, Bought it to Relace His Cheek Bones.
That figure doesn't include the broken arm , year off work or anything else associated with his fall.
SAFETY FIRST!!
Definitely do the back of the house first.
As to a time line, the first house I ever shingled was my own house, it was 22 or 23 square, an 8/12 slope.
Two rows of Grace on each side, felt on the rest, a run of roll roofing down each rake, F8 drip on the rakes and eaves, continuous ridge vent, one 4" vent boot and one chimney to flash with lead.
I hand nailed, I didn't own air back then. Hot dipped galvanized nails.
I remember it taking me 6 days, pretty much three days per side.
That time includes me humping all of the bundles up on the roof on my shoulder.
I used roof brackets, I recommend you do the same. They may not be a necessity, but they'll help you stage your materials, especially with this being your first roof.
I used architectural shingles, 4 bundles per square. As someone else wrote, no need to worry about lining up the tabs. Easy.
I snapped a line about every 6th course, and shingled the same number of courses at a time as I worked my way across the roof. Use shingles from several bundles as you go to blend the variations in color.
A helper would be great to feed you shingles as you nail. If you get pneumatics as well, you'll go even faster.
Mongo
In don't do roofs.
I don't like being on a roof, although I can tolerate it. But, I don't like it.
If you are OK, in PQ, on the roof, I would surely wait until spring (that's July in Quebec, right LOL?) but please get Workers Compensation insurance. Oh, man, can it hurt to fall off a roof.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
The only roofs I do are:1) my own2) my mother'sOther than that, roofs are what properly insured subs are for.
Wow,I didnt realize that this question would have generated such a response. A lot of good information has been passed around.I didnt realize that there was an underlayment that could be exposed to weather for extended period of time like Titanium UDL.. I need to research these products and see if they are available here.I would plan to take a week off work to give me time to do everything, even with unforeseen challenges, and a few days to recuperate.. :)Im still absorbing everything and the wheels are turning... Safety planning is my big concern.
I'm still waiting to see your photo.you think you have a lot of help now...;)I'm glad Dino responded. Be sure to find his post, click on his name and send him an E-mail.
salt of the earth he is, except that he is skinny as a toothpick and sharp as pepper sometimes. If you get behind he can help you catsup, but better to let him smooth things with olive oil first.If you have much rotten wood, a week will not be near enough time for one man alone on this.
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If you get behind he can help you catsup, but better to let him smooth things with olive oil first.
...and I don't use olive oil on roofs I'm gonna walk....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
oil have to think about that bit of advice.
might a kept me from falling once or twice
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Use nails, for sure.
Too many homeowners make the mistake of using staples.
"He said "Buck up baby, it's okay. The sunlight on the floor will always fall." ~ Sarah Harmer
Or they use Piffen screws.
Forrest
adroga
I did my own house if you go to 85891.1 on the advanced search you'll see the results..
Of course you can do it! The average roofer is just a hard working guy who learned by watching rather than reading..
There are a few details you'll need to focus on but it's really not brain surgery.
You will definately need a helper.. while one person can do it, it triples the time it takes..
a 7/12 roof is walkable and since you are only one story up while a fall might hurt you it shouldn't be fatal and with care it won't happen..
Greetings Adorga, I live in Anchorage AK and did my own roof about 6 years ago. Roughly 20 squares and took my time, all the advice given so far is outstanding. A few small additional ideas to add. (In no particular order). BTW I followed the article in the FHB magazine (check archives it was out in around 2002 I think).
1. For tear off lay out a large plastic (heavy duty) tarp on the yard below where you are working with 2x4s stapled to the edges. This will catch the nails and shingle pieces as you remove them, have a helper pick them up and put them in the rented dumpster (if your area has a delivery service) by they way this is a great way to find out if your friends have junk to get rid of because they will be asking to use it as well<G>.
2. Check with your local government group and see what the minimum requirements are for weight of the shingles, here I think they are 235#. Use a nailer (I had great luck with the Bostich Coil nailer) Staple guns are illegal to use in my area. Use 6 nails per shingle, this will only take a few seconds longer and provides a much stronger hold. This is required in our area by the local code as well.
3. I did on my 5/12 about from the edge of the eve up 10' of ice and water with 30# felt above that. BTW on a hot day work carefully with the I&W the Grace brand will stick on contact in a nanosecond to its self and will not come apart. Work carefully in small sections until you get comfortable with it. I think the local requirement is 4' above the plate.
3A. Be sure to check with your local building department for the requirements in your area. Permits etc. also are important. I would suggest you follow the prescribed methods because if you ever need to make a insurance claim later you had better be able to back up your methods as meeting or beating the local requirements.
4. I had ice damming on my cathedral ceiling area of my roof and after I removed the shingles I used my skillsaw to cut the decking directly over the upper plate (about 2' wide the entire run of the eve's) and because in my zeal to insulate the house I had extended my fiberglass over the plate and against the (cardboard) baffles. Eventually the baffles gave out and blocked the air flow resulting in the ice damming. I used 2" blue board and folded the fg back up out of the way and nailed scrap to hold the bb in place. Relaid the deck and I &W over it. Problem solved.
5. Use good quality plastic shingle over ridge vents, follow the directions and cut a couple inch wide slots on either side of the ridge peak. Extend the vents to the end of the roof, granted there is no venting going on under the eves but it just looks better.
6. I have a high wind exposure on my SE side and hand tabbed (adding extra adhesive to the under side of each of the three tab shingles). Its a pita and a pain in the back but worth it here. We do not get the heat in the summer to allow the shingles to bond well with each other.
7. I used the Malarkey "Alaskan" series 3 tab. Seems to hold up well in this climate. Rated for 100mph and can be installed in cold weather without breaking.
If you can lay your I&W straight and your tarpaper all have layout lines, makes it easier to keep the shingles l in a line. I found that a chalk line works well also. We do not use metal in valley's because of freezing, I wove my valley's and it is easy to do. Be sure to place your rake and eave metal properly prior to I&W.
I had some volunteers from my church, about 4 young adults to stage the bundles to the roof. I prestaged the bundles around my house to make it easier to get to the roof with the shortest distance to hump them.
I bought a speciality shovel for removing shingles and found out my short puller did a better job. I forgot the proper name, I will try to describe it, has a wide foot on one end and a curve like a claw hammer on the other, worked great to pull the staples out of the old roof. I slid the flat end under the shingle staples and popped them up quiet easily. I used my grinder to sharpen the foot to make it easier to slip under the shingles.
I attended a local homebuilders show this last weekend and I think after listening to their roofing seminar I did everything that they said should be done. I was surprised to find out that our municipality does not require any proof of "ability" to be a licensed contractor. All other trades have a trade requirement, either a certificate of training or some other accreditation. Roofers apparently are exempt. We have over 100 roofing companies in our area, about half a dozen have been here more than ten years.
I was told the first thing if you should decide to hire a roofer (or any tradesman), ask them to produce a copy of their licence, bonding and insurance. If any of them say any thing but "I will fax it to you immediately", drop them from your list just as quickly. A reputable company should not hesitate to share that information.
Be careful, work safe and good luck.
Jim
Jim- i think that article you followed from around 2002 was one of mine--I am real glad if it helped you.I only WISH I could try Malarkey shingles in my area-but they aren't distributed here.
Best wishes,
stephen
It was my bible and worked great. I thank you for your work you put into writing that. So far no leaks or Ice Dams so I guess I did ok. Of course thanks to Taunton too for publishing it. One of the reasons I like FHB and although I am a diy'er it has really helped me out.
I may be (big maybe) building two homes in the next five years. Jury is out on exactly when and what type. The one for my oldest daughter and her family will be first. I am leaning towards ICF's for both and plan at least on my to be as near a zero energy home as I can afford. This months FHB with the solar collectors with radiant in floor heat look like they may work well. In a few years there should be significant monies available for doing some of this work. Along with the advances in the technology there should be some exciting developments, ie the heated ground with heat pump etc.
Jim
Ha, if I can do it. I think you could too
hmmmm, your post perplexs me
You younguns bounce better though
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no bouncing for me, all hand nailed.
hmmmm, your post perplexs me
I mean when you fall off and hit the ground
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oh, haha very funny. so you must go splat ;)
hmmmm, your post perplexs me
more like "Crunch"
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with a bounce it would be more like a thud... thud... groan.... wouldn't it???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'm surprised no one advised to start at the top and work down like I did. While I was contemplating my roof an article appeared in FHB describing starting at the top. Being stuck alone but having plenty of time I decided to tackle it that way because one side alone was just over 40' ridge to eve and averaged about 32' wide.
So I started by measuring down from the ridge 5' and removed enough old shingles to allow me to lay 12 rows back up. This worked pretty good as it was closed in for whatever weather came along. Next day I tore off 5' more and struck a chalk line there and laid it back up to the first batch. This cost me maybe a half hour extra because nailing the last row under yesterdays required lifting those and weaving the last rows in. I thought it was well worth that time because every night it was weather secure and if the weather didn't look too good for a day I would take a break until it was looking better.
I replaced 4 sheets of roofing because the original roofers screwed up the flashing all along the fireplace and the chimney. I also carried them up by hand and that was the hardest part. But I had enough sense to have scaffolding up all along the eves and would place them on there and haul them up as needed. Also the scaffold made the last 5 or 6 rows real duck soup work bench type work.
This must have been about the turn of the century. This roof is about 4 in 12 so not much problem slipping and I also only used a hammer. I even pulled all the nails and reused them so that I could burn the shingles. They didn't burn worth a hoot and but later when I had a large asphalt area laid down, I laid all these shingles under the asphalt and got rid of them.
I learned something though, it's either too hot, too cold, too wet or too windy or a combination of some of those to make it miserable most days.
But I would recommend it.
I was working on a roof in the rain and thought i would take a pic for you of the brackets and the snips im useing to cut those 50 year arc shingles
That bracket is nailed wrong, its a extra one as my board was rotten, The other ones go further in and i nail on a rafter with a 16 penny nail
just one nail?
They make room for 3 nails on purpose.
! nail is good way to land on the ground, just ask me, i have experienced the landing, on a cement sidewalk no less.
even three nails is not enough when they miss the rafter.Believe me - this I know!
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ouch!!!
bad knee because of this!!!
Paul,
These three don't hit the rafter -- just the sheathing and I have no worries even with lots of stone and my 225 on board.
Heres looking at ya.
View Image
View Image
I seldom hit a rafter either and I don't ever recall seeing a roof jack pull off. I've heard tales of it, but I've never witnessed it.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
It's an old wives tale -- a lot of old wives do roofing.
Bah!
I'm an old wife then.
wanna hear about when it happened to me?I don't want to waste a good story ya know.;)
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Are those copper nails ringers?I used to use the roof nails for that until I had them fail me once.I think everybody who ever gets on a roof starts out with the fantasy that when slip-slide time comes along, they will be able to re-act fast enough to do this or that, but when it happens, it happens fast and you are on the way over the edge before you realize it.That's been my experience anyways.Something familiar about that second photo
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That second picture is looking across the Bay at ya
Are you on Megunticook or Battie?
Neither, up the coast a ways looking over towards Islesboro.
Nice view!
I have had the nails pull out when I missed the rafter!!!!!
I know it happens but you can see how our jacks are nailed with 1 1/2 " roofers into boards and you can see whats happening in this picture.
View Image
I like!
I know it happens but you can see how our jacks are nailed with 1 1/2 " roofers into boards and you can see whats happening in this picture.
I'm thinking that the larger bearing surface on your jacks probably cuts down on the downward force and also the 1 1/2" roofers are just going thru sheet metal into the sheathing rather than thru 1/8" steel and a layer of shingles. In other words, you're getting better penetration. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's what she said.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Grant,
Thats exactly right -- we're fully penetrating the sheathing boards using this method.
I don't think 3 16 d nails into rafters is totally necessary though, even with thicker jack tabs and 3/8 " shingle to go thru, but anyone should use whatever method makes them comfortable on a steep roof.
Just don't ask me to believe it's mandatory in all cases.
Walter Nice explanation and great photos on the Yankee gutter thread by the way!
OSHA, four letter word we all love.
All roofs over 5/12 must have roof jacks or perimeter safety line
I haven't ever seen those clipped corners on the rake slates before. I like the look, but is it for style or to use surface tension to lead water back into the drainage plane of the roof and keep it from spilling over the gable end?
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It's talked about more fully on " waiting for a crane", but the gist is aesthetics and less area for wind to catch in a windy location.
Several of the Monson roofs I salvaged in Dexter had that detail so I copied it for my house and garage roofs too.
It probably does help redirect the water back inboard somewhat , but that would be lower on the priority list.
After being gone, I had lost track of that thread. Off to find it again now.
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I think I just figured out my situation concerning my roof..I dont think I will be able to do it as I am starting (finally) my electrician apprenticeship and for the time being I am going to work my old job on weekends to keep my foot in the door as a safety net..So... Its a good/bad situation for me as I thought I would really be able to do my roof...
well, ya learned a lot anyhow.
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You realize you would have been OK if you used screws there and not nails, right?
;)Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
some screws yes. Piffin screws - whaddya tryin to do, kill me off so we don't have to argue it anymore?;)
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Well, aren't Piffin screws what you'd use to fasten a Piffin to a roof?
;)'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Yes, but you use them differently to do that. Instead of attaching the roof jacks to the lumber, you would shoot the screw directly thought your foot to the sheathing below.
I will say this with absolute certainty:
No one who has fastened their feet to a roof with drywall screws has ever fallen off that same roof.
I can't understand why OSHA won't approve it?Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
Its a little game i play, i try and put in the least amount of nails and then i time myself so when the jack gives way i jump off onto the cushion, The game gets more exciting with a roofing nail instead of a 16,
I hope its at least an 1 1/2 roofing nail. 1 inchers didn't work to well last time I used them for a jack.