Ok .. I posted before was I doing something wrong because I can’t compete against Depot when it comes to installing sliders. Now granted I’m not doing a hit and run install like them but I loose customers because I’m $580.00 and they are $389.00.
So the real kick in the crotch is this month they are running an installation special on all installed Andersen products at $150.00 off the labor which brings the install to a whopping $239.00.
After seeing that I left a cart with about $50.00 in stuff in the aisle and walked out. I can’t compete with them and I’ll never give them another nickel.
If this is backed by Andersen I think it is a way big marketing mistake. I like Andersen products alot, but in order to compete I am now looking for a cheaper door and when customers ask me to recommend a door it certainly won’t be Andersen. If they ask why I don’t use Andersen all I can say is I have a personal problem using their door.
It sucks when your suppliers are also your competitors.
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Replies
Yeah, some doors swing both ways, don't they.
But your picking the wrong bone with Andersen. They make HD come to them, not the other way around like some manufacturers. Your problem is with HD
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin-
I'm not so sure Andersen isn't backing this thing. The $150 discount is only on Andersen products and the local HD sells 3 other sliders. The flyer also has HD and Andersens logo all over it. You may be right, I'll do more research.
Andersen and HD are tight. Trust me I know, but won't say how.
_______________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
I could be wrong but I can tell you how I know what I think I know. I went to the factory and let them feed me. I ate up every word of it.
;)
Plus - business is always negotiable. Change happens.
They do refuse to sell HD a good part of their line of windows.
It would make sense if Anderson offers the same discount through all stocking dealers or something like that. Or like with cars. The biggest dealership in the region always getts the best deals and kickbacks from the factory that they sometimes pass along..
Excellence is its own reward!
never try to compete with a company or indivedual that works cheap and does crap work you are just hurting your self and all other Qualified craftsman i wont even install a door from home depot and i tell my customers that how could anyone charge that little to install anything and still make a living you cant also none of us should ever shop there as they are our competition if you want to lookat it like that i do not even consider them if a customer calls me wanting somthing installed i just politly brush them off i tell them if it does not work out call me
tommorrow i am installing a millgaurd vynil slidig glass door door cost 1296 i amcharging my customer 1600 for the door and 1200 to install and they will be doing thair own painting never undersell your self do excellent work and charge for it or you will just knock yourself out and not even be able to make ends meet
Two years ago I lost two jobs , both front doors, two sisters that lived four houses apart. One lost to Home depot, other to Lowe's. Each customer got same bid from me $550.00 for complete door labor, labor for hardware, inside trim and paint. HD was $350.00 I believe, Lowe's almost the same. The door from Lowe's was installed without lockset , they wanted $200.00 extra for labor to install inside trim,lockset and paint. Lady called me to finish the job. After laughing at her, I told her to call her sister and get the HD guy to do it. She told me that the lockset that the HD guy installed for her sister didn't work and her sister couldn't close the door without pushing the bottom of the door with her foot.
She pleaded with me to put a lock on the door that night. I felt sorry for her and went over there. I installed just the deadbolt as it was 8:00 at night. Finished the job in the morning. Charged her $300.00 for labor, included buying inside trim, paint etc.
Her sister is sueing HD, repeated efforts to get them back and do the job right have failed. You get what you pay for.
Mike
You are hitting on what I have known for years. The install programs from the box stores make my besst customeres. Once they find they got what they paid for they don't mind paying the real price for a job done right. What most consumers dopn't know is the only contractors(?) doing the installs for those prices are either inexperienced or hacks. Don't try to compete with them on the price level, It's like trying to sell a rolex for the price of a timex.
Rob-
You are right most will learn you get what you pay for but we are selling an intangible product untill the work is done. It's not like they can look at 2 installs side by side and compare. Every door they sell is a lost sale for someone else, gone forever. With a store that does 1 million in sales per week average for the last 5 years they aren't pissing customers off fast enough for me.
They can also shave the installed price because they are already making a profit selling the door. I'm not.
__________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
We have a Lowes here. They advertise storm door install price of $99. I tell my customers I charge $100. But........I will pick up the door, install it and since I am getting the whole $100 I have time to make sure it fits and fix any issues that arise. The Lowes guy is getting about $55 and he will leave promptly when the door simply closes once to get to the next job because he has to in order to make a living. No one has ever complained. DanT
Can anyone tell me just what is the relationship between HD and the people who install their products? I haven't had HD install anything and don't intend to, but I got the impression from talking to HD that they just acted as a referral agency to those doing the installs. Does HD take a cut of the install or does it go directly to the installer? Does HD use a number of people in installation specialty or do they have fairly exclusive relationships with just a few installers?
If my presumptions are correct HD find's "tradesmen" who are not qualified and can not obtain a real job in the trades, but they have a truck and a handful of tools and will work for peanuts.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
The stores in this area must be smater then that. They give the customer Andersens 800# and tell them to complain about the doors operation. Andersen sends out a rep to fix the problems at no charge.
___________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
This is simply a matter of educating the customer.
Don't compete with a low ball price..then explain why U don't compete.
"Of course my bid is more expensive than their "listed" bid....I don't hide any installation costs"....
That oughta get the old conversation flowing. I'd explain how since I was there to see the job, my price includes a full installation.
Than tell them to read the fine print.....all their "adverstised quotes" say "basic" installation. Ask them if they really think their house is the one house in America that the basic install would fully cover.
Then....after all that..you'll still have the bottom feeders wanting the lowest bidder......so just leave them wanting.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
And to the defense of HD, I bet their are some pockets of the country where HD does in fact do good work installing a host of things.
When you find out where that is please shock us by telling us where it is OK?
While I agree with the fact there a lot of hacks doing Lowes/HD installs my one experience as ho/gc was very good. I had our cabinets designed/measured by HD and installed by their guy. I was very impressed with this guy and his helper who did a very professional job, clean-up, offer to answer any questions, and come back if there were any problems.
This experience probably was the exception and not the rule but I really hate to see all painted with the same brush.
Thanks. I did say let us know.
See, I haven't been in every community in the USA... so there is no way to know. All I can go on is that they do not pay enough in most cases for a tradesman to make any money. Therefore they will tend to attrat the hacks. But hey... glad it worked out for you.
Like I said, the big boxes do tend to get some questionable talent. I have looked at the install prices they advertise and say there is no way I would/could do it for that. Storm doors for instance, if the customer had about four at one house to do it might be worth it but on a one at a time shot I would rather stay home. As a former employer and friend used to say, " If I am going broke, I had rather do sitting on my hands than working my a$$ off".
Maybe there was enough $ in the cabinet/counter-top jobs to get good folks. I could imagine that some decent folks could use something this like for fill in work. Word of mouth keeps me busier that I want to be though. I guess market and economy could be a factor.
Stay dry out there amigo.
Edited 7/7/2003 8:18:41 PM ET by RASCONC
Had HD installers do my tile when I bought the house. I knew the installer through another job. They get some decent guys that go for quantity over quality jobs. This guys liked it because he didn't have to spend money marketing as much and it was a constant stream of work, however he said the HD "cut" of the install price left him with less than market value for his services. Quantity over quality. He did a good job for me.
I wouldn't have them install anything else however.........either I do it and blame myself or I hire a competent and probably more expensive guy. some things are worth paying for. Why save $500 when you wind up spending several hours on the phone to get things fixed.....how much is my time worth to me......probably more than I saved if I went cheap on the install.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
Well now, I haven't either. But I can guarantee you that the rates they pay will never attract good people for very long!
When dealing with ANY competetor, keep one thing in mind.... Look for the small print. What is the cost of the labor to remove the window/door? What's yours? bottom linr is the over all cost. I just had a friend who called and asked why it coist so much to have Home Depot remove the existing laminate tops as to compared to the buy and installing the new ones?
There is one more point not mentioned here: For a lot of HO's, being able to pay for a door or window AND the install with a credit card makes the project happen regardless of the fact that any savings on the initial window/door purchase are eventually lost to interest and fees.
I'm one of those who prefer to chase larger jobs, mostly because I can go to work at the same location day after day, and the projects are usually bankrolled by a bank loan or the HO's savings.
But a friend of mine prefers the 2 hours here, half-a-day there type work and probably makes more $$ than I do. He told me recently that he was considering getting a VISA account set up because a lot of his customers ask him if he takes plastic and either express disappointment or back off on their project when faced with the prospect of having to use real money.
Will it never end... I just got back from a customers house quoting numerous projects. One was cleaning green mold off bricks. He pipes up that when at Depot yesterday they recommended cleaning it with a solution of water, muriatic acid and baking soda. It took a lot of splainin before he realized that the baking soda will neutrilze the acid there fore you'd only be cleaning with smelly water.
My brain hurts I'm thinking of pursuing a career in the postal field, after all I'm not a bad shot.
________________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?