I know I’m likely to need to havethese made up at our local boat/steel yard from stainless but it seems equally likely that somebody, somewhere stocks them on a shelf, all ready to dend out. Google isn’t much help though.
Here is the deal – I am building a set of library shelves on a wall that includes a closet under stair. This has been a wet bar in the past but the new owners want a safe located there. So the center section of this wall of shelves will be s disguised door about 44″ wide, 7’4″ tall and 12″ deep. A part will include a plasma TV and minidrop drawers for DVDs.
So I will be using a stout pin hinge set top swing it all on at one side and a caster wheel for support to the floor on the other side. Typical cabinet hinges are on the small side for this heavy unit.
I may even want to include a bearing so there is no binding to make it hard for the lady to open fully.
I’m open to suggestions for designing this or finding a pair to buy.
and Thanks!
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where …
Excellence is its own reward!
Replies
Baldwin has a web site try them.
Good Morning ,
Ifound agreat selection of hinges at a place called Mcmaster-Karr (http://www.mcmaster.com). You do have to set up an account with the first order , but that is real easy. It's an industrial supply company, lots of good things there.
DAVE
Thanks for the link, but they didn't have what I need. Ives does though. I bookmarked McMasters for future ref
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
will be using a stout pin hinge set top swing it all on at one side
You lost me.
I've got ~600 lbs of door (6'x8') hanging on 3 ball-bearing hinges- swings like a breeze, no caster. These are standard Stanley commercial butt hinges. Does require a stout frame. And molding to conceal the hinges in your case.
Soss makes some monsters that are totally concealed.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Actually, I mis-spoke, I meant to say a set of pivot hinges, not pin hinges. Within twenty seconds after I hit the post button on this in the morning, our power went out, so I was not even sure if I had got the post up or not.I spent the day on the mainland ( once the ferry finally started running) and reviewed some catalouges at the yard I use. Lot of other things too....I found some very good and high quality pivot hinges in the Ives book. I also worked over a few scenarios for how to do the latching so it would be effective yet unobtrusive. One idea that came up was using an electic powered openner to operate this unit. The couple living there are getting old so ease of use will be very important.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Pivot makes more sense.
Surplus Center has a wide variety of linear actuators. And very good tech support.
http://surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2006111719240490&catname=electric&keyword=EALAPAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I'll take a look at that.Here is one very similar to what I was seeing in the Ives book
http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewProducts.asp?Cat=813I expect about a 600# unit, but this is rated up to 1000# The removeable end plate at the bottom shank will allow me to mount it with such a large beast. I can slide the box into place on the pin, secure the spring loaded upper pin, and then place the end plate on to hold it all together.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
For that much money it oughtta work, maybe install itself... Yikes! My ball-bearing butt hinges were almost $1000 cheaper (on ebay).
I've got a large all-glass door for my next house (says Vice President of something or other on it) intended for pool access. DW decreed no glass door for the crapper. Anyhow, it didn't come with all the hardware, only what was attached to the door. I figured I'd fabricate the remainder. Minimal milling required.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I have not yet priced the one that looks right for the job. I suspect it will be less from my supplier given past history. There is another less complicated one for under three bills on that site.
I was just showing approx what kind I am needing.
See link in post to Gene. I'll be researching that later. Gotta run sooon now
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I remembered a name from my old commercial days. Rixson. Google for their pivot hinges. We used them for heavy glass doors in office buildings.
Great ccall Gene, That search led to this by Gary Katz. Apparantly he ahs already been here. This is almost exactly what I plan to build...http://www.garymkatz.com/Charts/pivot-bookcase.htm
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
I'm not sure that I'm following your query but here is a pic of an entertainment center that we recently built (pic not very good)
On the left is a set of cabinet doors, on the right is a door that looks like the cabinets but is really a hidden door.
It pivots on a thrust Bering, not sure I'm saying that right, its the bearing that goes in your wheel/hub of your truck. There is a steal shaft that goes from top to bottom of the door and it mounts into the thrust bering which is mounted into the floor.
This door weighs about 150 lbs. We have done them with much more weight and the door pivots like it was riding on ice.
I can get a better pic if that would help, or sketch what is going on.
I've also hung a pair of book cases on SOSS hinges, they weighed in at several hundred pounds empty, fully loaded they still opened and closed just as easily.
Doug.
I considered Soss hinges for this, but they way this will go together, the adjacent hook-up has a potential for flex, so I want this hung top and bottom where bearing points will be solid as a rock.
I would like to see how your setup goes to gether
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I looked at the link that someone gave you of Katz, thats exactly how we did the hidden door.
Monday I'll get you a better picture of how we did it, maybe I can scan the print as well.
I know that this thrust bering (hope I'm calling it the right thing, I'm no mechanic)can handle quite a bit of weight.
Doug
Edited 11/18/2006 10:50 pm ET by DougU
I am thinking I will put some of the weight on a caster on the swing side if the floor is cclose to level
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
How 'bout a little photo essay on this? The topic is a worthy one, and Gary Katz would certainly appreciate it. It looks as if his is a design only . . . unbuilt as of yet.
What's the secret room behind? Huge gun safe? Wine room? Whips and chains?
The space behind used to be a wet bar under stairs with just a pair of louvered style doors over a 2'8" openning. It will house a safe, documents, and some wine in the future.I am wrapping it in fire-rock to help upgrade the fire resistance of the room. That means a ply of firecode on the bacck side of this door will happpen if I can make it so.I would post some photos, but privacy of the owners and security of the spaces purpose are at conflit with that idea. But in deference to Gary's work on this, I may privately share some photos with him and/or memebers here in good stranding
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL, I just noticced the whips and chains omment. These folks are VERY NICE people, but the previous owners might have been inclined that way....;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I am thinking I will put some of the weight on a caster on the swing side if the floor is cclose to level
Seems to me that's only necessary if you don't build a stiff enough carcase. It will leave telltale marks on the floor in time. I wouldn't go that way.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I know that this thrust bering (hope I'm calling it the right thing, I'm no mechanic)can handle quite a bit of weight.
You're correct, assuming you're referring to a tapered bearing like a wheel bearing/race. Even my large Cats have a smallish similar bearing. Perfectly adaptable to the task- and inexpensive.
Always interested in other ideas. Please post.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Tom
Yes thats what I'm talking about, a tapered bearing.
And I think your right in what you told Piffin, no need to add a support wheel because the floor will have a reminder of where that wheel has been traveling.
Build the box strong enough and no need for the support wheel. You can hide supports inside the box to hold the weight.
I was going to get a picture of what I was talking about today and maybe a shot of the print but I had a dentist appointment and didnt have time to get any of it. I'll see what I can find tomarrow.
Doug
Those bearings are kinda like kleenex or saran wrap in that they are generally known as Timkin bearings.
Timkin is a brand name, but if you want a bearing of that type, tapered roller bearing, ask for a Timkin brg & you'll get it.
They come in a million sizes too.
Joe H
got my new issue of FHB today and there it is, an article about just what you describe -
just perused it so far, but looks like a good compliment to G Katz online article with some different detailing -
"there's enough for everyone"
Whenever you can.
Always interesting to see how somebody else accomplishes the job. The last one I did wasn't actually hidden, pantry shelving in a kitchen. The fit was so tight it was effectively an air brake, preventing rapid closing/slamming. Pivoted on ball-bearing revolving shelf hardware.
Kinda like exploring old secretaires to see how the hidden compartments are accessed. Saw a new one last time that had a spring behind the hidden drawer to tension a long side. You hooked a thumbnail in front of the side and the whole thing popped out. Very slick. Owner had no idea it was there.
Which was actually similar to some wine presentation boxes I made yrs ago for a pair of 120 yr old Chateaux Lafite. To get inside you popped off a spring-loaded molding and slid the glass off. But you had to get a fingernail in just the right place.
Clients are always delighted. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Hi, Could you send me a better pic of the hidden door you built? We are wanting to do this also. I would like to see the door open, if possible. What hinges and latch system did you use and where can I purchase them?Thanks for your help and pics
Terri Standley
[email protected]
kids
You reading old posts!
I have some better pictures of hidden doors but not really any close up's of the hinge system.
On the three pictures of doors that you do not see any hinges its because there isn't any. There is a pivot point but no hinge. On the double door'd bookcases you can see the SOSS hinges and that is pretty obvious how it works. Although you have to give some consideration to how the soss hinged ones meets in the middle and the hypotenuse of sides A and B of the book case and how that will affect the door closing.
Simple way to handle the soss hinge bookcase one is to take a couple of pieces of board or cardboard and make a footprint of the two doors. Then make a drawing of the opening(jambs) and set them in that and see how they hinge together, you should be able to see the problem with the leading edge of the cabinets and how you have to accommodate for it.
These double bookcases have a very little bit of security to them since when shut one of them on the inside of the room has throw bolts top and bottom on one door and the other has a dead bolt lock mounted conveniently inside the lower door and tucked way up inside the upper left hand corner so that even if you opened up the cabinet door it wouldn't be to obvious. These doors are in no way to be safe room secure. You should be able to kick them open just as easily as you would any door mounted in a typical door jamb.
I've done a few doors that lead to safe rooms and the thinking on them is totally different then hidden doors to your hidden stamp collection. I really cant offer any pictures of those type of doors.
If you don't follow me on this let me know, I can do a quick drawing of it to better illustrate my ideas, usually much better then my written words.
I had to make these cabinets in the shop with the jamb already in place at the house and make sure every thing would work out cause they were going in painted and ready to hang. Maybe I over though it to much but they did go in without a hitch.
The three other hidden doors are mounted on a steel rod that is floor mounted in a thrust bearing, you know, the type of bearing that they use on the front spindle of your car, a tapered bearing. That bearing mounts into the floor(epoxyed in) with the steel rod having a collar attached that sits down into the thrust bearing and nothing more then a simple hole drilled into the top of the jamb that the rod seats into. You can use a eschution plate around the rod at the top if the door is something that will be open and closed quite frequently.
I can get the drawings of this bearing mount if that will do you any good but I think you can probably envision what I'm talking about. some of this you just have to do a little trial and error research/practice to get the fine adjustments figured out but it really is quit simple once you sorta wrap your head around the concept.
On the three hidden doors that are mounted with the rod and thrust bearing there isn't any real catch to hold the door shut. All that they have to keep them from blowing open is rare earth magnets.
I've done some other doors that have a more secure way to keep them closed and that usually requires a bit more ingenuity. Usually a hidden flap/panel to conceal the mechanism to secure the door. I have seen some store bought latch systems( think I can dig up a link to some if need be) and then there's the old way of doing it with the trick book method, see attached pic.
I've done some 15 + sets of hidden doors and each one has its quirks so your door(s) are going to be different again and that's why you have to do the advanced thinking to make sure it all comes together when your done.
Hope some of this helps.
Doug
I sent a few pictures in bmp form instead of Jpeg, I redid them and sent them as Jpeg so the ones marked bmp ignore or you'll be sitting for a while waiting for them to load. Sorry!
Edited 9/6/2008 11:23 pm ET by DougU
You might check for exterior gate hinges. They are a bit more clunky to adjust, but I've seen quite heavy duty and compact pivots made from tapered roller bearings similar to these:
View ImageView ImageView Image
I'm not sure what the capacity of the single ball bearing pivot is, but they would seem to be useful for lighter projects:
View Image
Edit:
I always wondered what the weight capacity would be with the readily available self aligning hinges. At least one company is claiming that the 1" version will handle an 800 lb. gate:
View Image
Edited 11/19/2006 1:10 pm ET by IdahoDon
I have some fancy gates to build on this same job so that is a good source. BTW, I had to reverse engineer the photo to find the URL to link up.
http://www.facsrl.com/?page=categoria&lg=en&categoria=2
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
At least the cad drawings look good. :-)
If it turns out to be good stuff let me know.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I seem to remember a pretty good article in FH either last issue or one before it. You could get pretty good BB hinges at van dykes restorers on line. The article in FH sounds exactly like your sit.
?
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Another brand you could look at is Bommer:
https://www.bommer.com/
I have used Rixson pivots for a couple of concealed doors and bookcase doors. My suggestion is that you send all the guys to another job and make sure the client is off island for a while. Then you can take the time and get in the mindset needed to work the whole thing out. They're a lot of fun, though.
I hear you. Client is in Key West for the winter.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!