Hi people! I am new here. We just moved into a new duplex apartment which is in an old house. Apparently the day we visited the apartment, our landlord had the tenants air it the whole day. We had a bad surprize: we move in and realize that it stinks there! We like it a lot, paid a lot for the move but don’t know what to do. The landlord told us that he had no idea where the smell had come from. A plumber had looked at everything and was not able to tell what caused the smell. My husband and I decided that we wanted to figure it out ourselves. I have browsed in the internet and found solutions that point to the idea of our crawl space being the source of the bad odor. We don’t have any crawl space though. The smell is coming from behind the wall. Our neighbors downstairs complain about it too. Please help. Thanks.
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It would help to characterize the odor a bit. You can get odors due to damp earth (eg, from a crawlspace or dirt basement), from sewage, from mold and rot, from fireplaces and combustion appliances, or from activities of others (fish, cabbage, smoking, and the occasional fart).
To an experienced nose each has a reasonably distinctive smell, though there are certainly ambiguous cases. You might ask friends if any of them have experience in this area (eg, because they also live in old houses, and have maybe done some home repairs).
Also, it would help to know where the odors are strongest, though often there are patterns that occur due to airflow (eg, strongest at the top of the stairs) that don't really reflect where the odor is coming from. In this case you say it's "from the wall" but don't indicate if that's a specific wall or all walls in general.
Regardless of where the odor is coming from (with the notable exception of combustion appliances) you can likely reduce it significantly in the short-run by setting up a small, slow-speed window fan blowing **in**, in order to pressurize the house slightly. This isn't really a "solution", though, and obviously isn't practical in the dead of winter.
Thanks for your reply. My neighbor and I had long discussions as far as both the potential source of odor and the caracteristics are concerned. It smells like dirty diapers. Sorry. It is that bad. When you walk into the apartment, it first smells like dirty diapers with a very strong moldy odor that almost pinches your nose. We really thought at first that it comes from the sink. The smell is strongest when we open the kitchen cupboard underneath the sink. The (double-layered) wall, to which the sink is attached, is also shared by the bedroom. It seems that the wooden wall has a gap (or gaps between the planks) and the smell oozes out from either downstairs or upstairs. The smell is especially noticeable when it rains. Now we also have a washing closet with a washing machine and a dryer. There is a hot water tank there that is also loosely attached to the wall so you can almost look into it. The same smell comes there as well. Gosh, we moved two months ago and haven't been able to invite anyone... Do you think it helps more to just take some pics and upload them?
Schwarz
Go for it!! up load the pics.
What are your rights to get out of the lease if the landlord is unwilling to gut and fix the kitchen????"No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
We were able to get underneath the kitchen and saw that one of the pipes had broken. The landlords said that they would fix it. Thanks
Kind of gives lie to the landlord's statement that he'd "already had a plumber look at it", doesn't it?
Or to the plumber's statement that he'd looked at it.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Good point :)
Yeah, we were shocked and at the same time relieved to have detected a pond underneath the kitchen sewage.
"detected a pond underneath the kitchen sewage."
Ewwwww. I'd consider moving out. The landlord showed it to you under false pretenses and then lied about it. Plus it doesn't sound like he is the type to fix it properly, so you have a source of potential health problems growing under the kitchen floor even after the pipe has been "fixed".
Maybe he is a 'green' landlord. Kinda like having a composting toilet, they have a composting pond under the K drains :)
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
schwarz,Get a plumber to do a smoke test to eliminate any leaks in the waste-vent lines. Be sure to involve the neighbors so they can look for smoke also.KK
Something is broke loose in that waste system someplace in that house. It is the landlords duty to find and fix it.I was called for one like that once. Turned out to be a long linear crack /split in the cast iron dropping vertically from the upper apartment down through a chase in the lower one
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pictures will make things easier to understand. are you on the tio floor and is the heater a gas heater with a vent going out the roof or the wall? sounds as if you might have rain water seeping in.
You should check with a tenants' rights group in your state to see what the laws are for remedying the problem. Colleges often have collected these laws in a booklet and published it for consumer use, for obvious reasons. I wonder if you've just taken your landlord's word that a plumber looked into it...?
In my area, the tenant is allowed to spend the equivalent of a month's rent to remedy a problem the landlord had not fixed after being asked to do so. A problem such as you describe, if the health dept. were involved, would probably shut the place down.
It is your landlord's duty to fix it, and you should have rights to take action if he doesn't. Find out what your jurisdiction allows. And document EVERYTHING! Pictures, dates of phone calls, etc.
In my first house I had, I replaced the sump pump as it was rusted and seized. Shortly after that I started getting a very bad smell in the basement. SO how does one figure that replacing a sump pump can cause a smell?
The pit it was in had a drain to the sewer with a P trap to prevent flooding if the pump fails. Well as soon as the P trap dried out, the smell started.
This to say that your smell can be an old pipe that was never closed off properly, or a P trap that is not being used.
Ask the neighbour how long it has been? Then ask the land lord if any reno's have been done.
As was said in the previous post... you have some investigation to do.
How did you get to see the p trap of your sewer? We live upper unit duplex. Does it mean I have to check the downstairs sewer? I do believe something has dried out. The neighbors have lived there for 6 months, so they have got no clue either
Pour some water into the floor drain, in the basement. It'll probably take a couple of gallons. Maybe it's dry. If the house has cast iron soil pipes and some have been replaced below the first floor, it may have shifted when it was removed. That could break the seal between a couple of the sections. I guess the best thing to do is sniff around. If it smells moldy, I would pass and find it some other way. Don't be surprised if there's mold inside the wall where the bath tub is, or the kitchen pipes.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Gotta check that floor drain this weekend. I know people in this forum helped someone before. I even saw pics just two days ago. I would really appreciate it if you gave me any indications as to how I can identify the floor drain. I'll open the drains and just see which one is really dry? Makes me think... I don't even know if that house has a basement. It is 100 years old.
Thanks!
If there's a basement, it'll have a drain in the floor, near the stationary tubs. If there's no basement, I guess sniffing around is all that can be done. If it smells like a waste line, it probably is. You think that's why the last people left? Do a reverse lookup and find out who they are and if possible, talk to them about the landlord. Talk to the city and ask if there has been any major plumbing done, or they'll probably let you look in the folder yourself- it's all public information, anyway. If something needs inspection, they may just say it's a spot inspection. Have the ducts been cleaned? A lot of people who own rental properties don't like to spend money on them and duct cleaning is just another place to skimp.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
As HighFive suggests, make sure all floor drains and anything like an unused laundry sink have their traps full. Pour a quart of water in each for starters, then a cup every day or two for a week, and see if that helps the odor. The trap could just be dry from disuse, or it may have a leak or a venting problem that causes it to go dry rapidly.But from your description it sounds like there's a drainpipe leak in that wall.However, one other thing to do is to check the roof and see if there are any old chimneys coming through above the problem area. Water getting into the chimney masonry or running down alongside the chimney can cause all sorts of mischief.[Oops -- meant for the OP, not you.]
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Edited 10/5/2007 8:16 pm by DanH
P.S.
To quote the movie "Spaceballs" "I see your schwartz is bigger than mine!!!"
The best thing you can do is ... MOVE.
Check your local laws, etc., first. Talk to a lawyer, even. Lease notwithstanding, there is usually a way for you to back out of the lease if the place is not as it was presented at the time of signing. You should NOT have to forfeit any deposit, prepaid rent, etc.
Seriously, though, the only way this guy is going to give a whit is if it costs him money. Right now, he's trying to fob it off on you.
It would be helpfull if you would fill in some of your profile or let us know where you live. Around here in southern NH, this is the time of year when critters, particularly mice like to move inside for the winter. And if a mouse, rat or squirrrel dies in the wall the smell is aweful and typically lasts for 10-14 days. Older houses, particularly ones with stone or rubble foundations are especially likely to have these visitors. Do you know if the owner or other tenant put out some Decon or other mouse/rat poison, or did you see any empty or partially full Decon bait boxes in the attic, basement, or behind any of the appliances? You might ask the landlord if he uses rat poison and might ask him for the phone number of the previous tenant to find out if he used any.
I'm not trying to suggest that you stop investigating other possibilities, but around here, this is the most common cause.
As a safety matter, as a new tenant you should look for old bait boxes, particularly if you have children.
Yeah, I guess I left "dead animal" out of my list of possibilities. The smell can vary somewhat depending on the animal, and the state of decomposition, but is generally sort of skunk-like.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I second the motion that you test for a sewer gas leak. A savvy plumber knows how to cap off the vents and fixtures and then inject smoke into the pipes. I have a customer who went thru this last year. There was a constant stink in the house, and the plumber found a pipe in the wall that was wide open, as though someone was going to extend it somewhere and never did, just left it. The smoke test found it.
Can they add mint oil or somesuch to the smoke? That would let them add another sense to the search.
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
There is a Peppermint test for the same problem.Not sure how it is used..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
bout 20 years ago read about a smell coming from an attic wall they opened it up and found a woman's body in plastic bag behind rock wall i'd be too lazy for that
"I'm not responsible for my actions."
I'd be too lazy to carry all those rocks up in the attic to build the wall in the first place.
i meant sheetrock wall- but i'd be too lazy to do that, too in fact, i'd be too lazy to dig a hole maybe some more academic crime like bank robbery would be my forte "I'm not responsible for my actions."
Let me suggest identity theft, credit card fraud, and check kiting. There seems to be zero punishment for those, and you don't need to threaten anyone or even go out of the house.
One thing to do is to look for ways to access the interior of that wall. (Have the downstairs folks look too.) Generally there would be an access panel in a closet or whatever behind a bathtub, eg, and sometimes there are other access panels in closets, under kitchen counters, etc. Also, often the bathroom medicine cabinet can be removed to access the inside of the wall.
The downstairs folks should check their ceiling (especially in the bathroom) for access panels as well. In an old house these panels can be there for years and you won't notice them -- they just seem to be a part of the "woodwork".
If nothing else, removing such an access panel will instantly confirm if the wall is the source of the odor, plus you can often (sometimes with the aid of a mirror) see a significant amount of the plumbing through a relatively small opening.
If you can't find any existing access points for inspection, someone is going to have to cut some holes. These can either be done, eg, in the back of a closeet or under the bathroom sink and closed with a plywood panel, or they can be cut into the plaster and repaired afterwards. No major expense in either case.
If the landlord won't address this issue (authorizing someone to cut into the walls if need be) then you probably have a valid lease-breaker.
Try calling the local Board of Health to investigate, if your community has one. There's hopefully a minimum standard for habitability that they can use to force the landlord to investigate and correct the problem. In Masssachusetts the local BoH's have a lot of legal power, and they use it.
Ed
Is there a waste stack that runs through the suspect wall? There was a case a while back where people noticed and odor, but kept on with life, until one fine day in the middle of a dinner party the wall collapsed and dumped all the sewage that had been collecting when someone ran a drywall screw through a waste line.
You are entitled to "quiet enjoyment of the premises," so I would say you have a case for moving without losing security deposit and so on.
Landlord may okay your opening the wall to ckeck--or, perhaps you could get a sewer inspector or chimney guy to use a small camera to check out what's going on inside that wall through a small opening.