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We’re flatlanders planning a home for 8500′ in Colorado. Already found that thermalpane windows will need capillary tubes and that the gas range may need high altitude burners. Looking for other nuances that apply to high altitude construction and if you happen to know or be a contractor in Grand County Colorado, let me know.
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Lot's of things will suprise you, but your body will be the first thing that will need to adjust and it will take several days before you can do labor and not become winded easily. Vehicles are the next problem, seriously consider having a diesel engine in anything you can and it will pay dividends. Pressure plays little games on things depending on how far you are going up from, ie. things like bags of Cheeto's will puff up and sometimes pop. Cans of liquid will shrink or swell slightly and may losen a lid or may become very tight. But if you are transitioning only a few thousand feet you will not notice things change so much. Some things to watch out for are gas/oil containers that will want to vent more aggressively and don't have in your interior of your vehicle unless you like the smell/mess. Steel/Metals will suprise you if you see really cold tempratures. Water will either be easy or hard to come by depending on your location
I don't now how much to say about the equipment, seems that you are looking for a contractor, so I won't go into hydraulics and physical properties.
But agian the most changes will be in you, watch out for the UV factors, humidity, and probably wind. The thing you may like/dislike is that everything takes longer to get places because the roads don't just go there. Getting supplies will take more preparation and timing to coordinate and my be limited. Cememt may be mixed on site instead of being delivered. As a rule plan some redundencies in your systems. Don't rely on a single sorce of heat or power, and watch the weather every day.
I fly a lot of machines/tools up/down with me so this is what comes to mind at the moment.
There was a thread/post here a few days ago on UV/Windows etc. You might follow that and pursue questions on that also.
< Obsolete Link > Steve Weeks "Low-E Glass" 3/9/00 1:46pm
*A Ray: Anderson gave some good tips there. To go into a few details he assumes your contractor will catch: Solar UV will be several fold higher than at sea level so asphalt shingles, vinyl, and exposed plastic will age much faster. Consider materials from suppliers that give good warranties and save those receipts! Consider UV blocking windows to cut down on the fading of clothes and furnishings.Labors can't do as much work at altitude, but can come close if acclimitized. If you're going to fly in for a weekend of sweat equity from the lowlands, take it easy. At 8500 feet there is the potential for high-altitude pulomary edema (fluid in the lungs) and H-A ceberal edema (fluid in the brain). Get a good mountaineering first aid book (Medicine for Mountaineers, http://www.rei.com or amazon.com) if not for your workers, then for your visitors or for when (WHEN, not if) you're cut off by storms from medical care.Be really careful if any contractors come in from lower altitudes. Coming from Denver, at 5,300 feet is not too bad, but if your buddy from LA does the plumbing, he's going to be surprised by how pumps work differently, etc.Tires (this from a Colorado car buff friend): Most highly rated snow tires: The Nokian Hakkapelita 1 is slightly better in snow and ice but slightly less good on dry roads and The Michelin Arctic Alpin is slightly less good on snow and ice but slightly better on dry roads. I'm a really big believer in tires chains. Get several sets. Play with them before you need them. Fit them to your tires in your warm, dry garage. And then use them when everyone else is sliding around. If you use them to get out of the driveway twice and up one steep hill on the pass, it was well worth it.To echo Anderson on the heating system: two sources of heat, one of which doesn't require electricity. You might address one room of your house with a propane wall heater that doesn't use electricity so you've got someplace to go if the main heating system is out, there is a power failure, and the roads are closed. Because those things will all happen at the same time. Good luck. -David
*Just curious - Are sky hooks cheaper at 8500 feet ?(sorry - couldn't resist.........)
*A Ray -- we're just finishing our house at 8200 feet in New Mexico. Yup, your windows will need breather tubes (thus no argon gas fill possible). Bagged salad will look like party balloons. Watch your ice cream - the air in it will expand and ooze all over your freezer or car if you're bringing it from lower altitude. We found we might have a headache and trouble sleeping for a night, but that's about all -- other than lung power diminished -- but you weigh less up here too!We have a GE propane stove, adjusted by Sears at purchase. Your refrigerator will run colder than usual. It's very dry here, and our clothes are dry by the time I get them all hung on the line.When you travel from lower altitude, squeeze the excess air out of any lotion or liquid-filled bottles before you leave -- else they will leak all over your luggage/purses, etc.Cooking is a real experience. Any food that contains water will take much longer to cook since boiling temperature is so low. Water-rich potatoes will take forever to bake. And beans....give yourself lots of time! Invest in a good pressure cooker. If you or anyone in your family bakes a lot, you'll have to adjust many ingredients. I have a bunch of formulas if you're interested.Probably most important, because of the UV -- ALWAYS WEAR A HAT AND SUNBLOCK!!! Even in winter.As for building info, some contractors out here say water-based paints and stains are best, since oil-based ones degrade quickly. For power backup -- if you're building an entirely new house, put some solar panels on the roof or on a pole nearby (high enough to stay out of snow drifts). You'd be amazed how much power you'll get. Granted, we're lower latitude than you, but we have a dozen solar panels with backup generator and generator rarely runs.Let me know if you need those baking instructions....and enjoy your altitude -- you may not get as much oxygen per breath, but it sure is clean!Tina
*P.S. --- you'll probably have MANY bluebirds up there. Both Mountain Bluebirds and Western Bluebirds. They're fabulous, beautiful birds, very people friendly. BUT we just discovered that they will try to nest in ANY hole that is only about 1-1/4 inch in diameter. Our plumber left a couple holes near the sill where exposed basement wall meets ground floor -- and we had bluebirds in the basement, up the basement stairs and into the house every day, several times a day, this time of year when they're nesting! So make sure your have all your holes plugged -- and if you have an attic vent, be sure it's screened!
*I go out to Creede sometimes and work with a friend and I'd have to say I don't notice the altitude that much. Course I don't work real hard. Can burn pretty easily while on the roof. Take it easy while doing heavy stuff and you won't notice it for long. Its true that paint and stuff doesn't seem to last as long, but I'm not sure- most everybody paints their house. The first time I went, I couldn't wait to show everybody my new Impulse guns and they didn't work worth a damn.
*A Ray -- just remembered something else -- your windows must be over a certain size -- real small ones will essentially explode, I guess, even with breather tubes. Can't remember where I got that info, but it was a reliable source. Velux maybe. Check with your window manufacturer.
*Hi-Been living and building at 8000' since 93. I've installed and lived beneath Argon filled Velux roof windows with laminated Low-e glass the entire time. I've also installed Argon filled Low-E Betterbilt Homemaker 2's. Four out of 24 lights have been replaced in three years, on warranty. These windows are made in Prescott Valley, AZ. at 5000' and have no breather tubes. Argon filled with tubes is an oxymoron isn't it? The panes that failed have all been the interior and 3 out of 4 have been traceable to circumstances that increased the thermal gradient the glass was experiencing. One incipient crack began propagating from a likely edge flaw on an unusually cold night when for reasons unknown our hotblooded cat slept on the sill with his back pressed against the glass. Another crack began to crawl across its pane when we had a hot fire in the nearby stove on another cold night. A third occurred during construction when bats of insulation were stacked just inside a window, causing high interior temps that then presumably caused an edge flaw to run. Moral of the story, our Betterbilt windows are high-performing but moderate in cost, hence the problems. The Velux windows are high-performing and high in cost, hence the lack of problems- Maybe? Could it be that the Velux roof windows are built to withstand much higher stress and can somehow resist cracking and releasing the higher pressure trapped within. Also, I don't know what the elevation is where the Velux are built.
*Ray-Every time you think about moisture in any form take a sip of water. Always bring something warm with you when you go for a walk. I have lived in Grand County, and remember making all the right mistakes. Consider yourself in a tremendously beautiful, and deadly environment. NEVER believe the weather report. Always have blankets in your car. Enjoy every godblessed moment that you are alive in the mountains.
*update..."Mild Showers..." forcast thursday morning. I am now sitting in 18 inches of snow and it's still coming. I love Colorado.
*Hey all, I've been living and building Summit County, 9500 ft, for about 8 years now. Don't know about small windows exploding or Argon filled windows w/breather tubes? Always thought argon was placed in a vacuum between the panes. Have heard people ask at what altitude deer turn to elk, where do they store the moguls, and after a raft trip comment 'this is not where we started.' You really have to respect the environment and be aware of changing conditions. High altitude boilers, tinted windows on the south west elevations, snow storage, and wind loading of roofs are somethings, as far as building concerns that should be addressed and thought out. Any good local sub or GC should really help you out with any concerns that you have. Talk to others that have built around you. Kind of standard answers but tried and true. Can't even begin to describe the beauty or the life that abounds here.Matt
*Where do they store the artificial snow in the summer?
*Scott D, if your close to colo. springs it's probably stored in your toilet and HWH. Matt
*I have to agree. The finest climate on the Planet is the Front Range and the upslope to Eisenhower. Too bad the People's Republic of Boulder philosophy didn't become more widespread. Everybody else thought so too and now it is almost like an anthill.
*Wait a sec Matt, isn't Summit county on the West side of the divide? I confuse Summit and Eagle county, but I do know that the artifical snow made at Vail is stored in California for the summer. I am in Heurfano county. The only snow we store comes from Cuchara ski resort.Sc
*Scott, You'd think that but, Lake Dillon, I can see it as I type, is on the west side of the Divide, can see that too, holds water for the front range. It's mostly for Denver but some does flow south to parts unknown. The Robertson tunnel transports water into the South Platte river on the EAST side of the Divide. Believe it or not there is a resivoir south of Breckenridge in Park county on the east side that pumps water over Hoosier Pass into the Blue River that flows into lake Dillon and then through the Robertson tunnel back over the divide. Not much of a Continental Divide is it. I think Summit and Eagle county are pretty much one in the same since VAIL RESORTS owns two of our ski resorts and all kinds of real estate interests. Had a cloudless bluebird day today. Putting up rafters. You must be up to your eyeballs in mud after that storm, huh. Not familiar with Heurfano county. Been to the sand dunes and Crestone Peak, are you east of there? Matt
*I'm amazed at all the lurkers that come out of the woodwork once in awhile....Glad to see this topic covered as I know not much except about high altitude skiing and hang gliding...Thanks for the great posts...near the stream at 365'....aj
*Just a reminder that there's beautiful high altitude OUTSIDE Colorado -- Western New Mexico altitude is more open, huge vistas (much like ocean views), not as crowded by steep peaks and evergreens as Colorado mountains (we get claustrophobic in those parts!). We had 6 inches of snow last night, with thunder, today the sun is bright, cows have their calves bedded in the snow, bluebirds dancing in the trees, and I can sit here and look out the window over miles and miles of rolling high country grassland with mountain peaks as background. Who needs Vail??????
*Hey Tina, can't agree with you more. It is a bit like Disney World around here, mostly IMHO, because of Vail Resorts. They went public about two years ago and now just look at the bottom line. You can find solitude here, just have to hike or bike a little farther. The desert is really a spiritual environment. I think you feel awed in the mts. of Colo. but feel a part of something in the desert south west. Almost spooky in some places down there. AJ, been lurking for years. On to more lurking, Matt
*And plan where the snow plow is going to go (loops are good), where to push the snow to, and whether you mind if those plantings near the driveway get sheared off next winter. Consider a radiant-tube heated porch and steps. Unless you have major bucks. Then have a radiant driveway. Way cool - "Oh, look, it snowed. Guess I'll have to flip this switch to clear the driveway." -David (I only went with the radiant sidewalk)
*That whole area of the US is fine. I especially like the architecture in New Mexico. But if you want really dramatic vistas vs good climate you must go to the Banff National Park area on over to the coast. Then work your way up through BC and Yukon to Dawson City.
*Matt- I used to live up a Grand Lake, oh 10-12 years ago. I remember talking with my friends about where all that water went and how Denver had to ration. I am recently returned to Colorado, and don't know if those water projects you are talking about are new, or if I was just to drunk back then to have paid attention to where the water was going, and coming from.I am East of the Dunes. and west of Kansas(thank God). I'll check my map to see where you are, you gave me some pretty good clues. Try this: When I look to the north west, I see Mt.Maestas, and sometimes Green horn. to the south, Wa
*Scott, Don't know if I got your entire message, it ended with 'Wa'. Never been that far southwest. Been down the Royal Gorge a couple of times. Dillon, Silverthorne, Breckenridge, Frisco(me), the Eisenhower Tunnel and Vail Pass, I-70, Route 9, Route 6 all in Summit county. Lake Dillon was made by the Denver Water Board in the 50's, I think, to supply Denver with water. I know in the early to mid-eighties it was a pretty scarce winter for snows. Thats when the resorts put in their snow making systems, so they very well could have been rationing water then. I think it is really amazing, and a bit sad, how man can change the landscape over such a broad area. Mining is still having an effect on this area. I guess the building boom now is nothing like it was around the turn of the century. Where in Grand were you? I wonder where A Ray, you remember A Ray, is building? Don't know where everybody gets the time to contribute to the board so much, but they really do make it great. Thanks for the great posts. Waitin' for summer, Matt
*Most of my problems come with High Atitute Problems. The carpenter crew is generally stoned on Fridays. The concrete finishers are usually drunk everyday.
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We're flatlanders planning a home for 8500' in Colorado. Already found that thermalpane windows will need capillary tubes and that the gas range may need high altitude burners. Looking for other nuances that apply to high altitude construction and if you happen to know or be a contractor in Grand County Colorado, let me know.