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I teach a still evolving construction program in Oregon. Juniors and seniors who have satisfied basic wood working/safety prerequisites in other classes in the program can apply to this class. Through the course of a 9-month school year the students build a single family residence somewhere in town. Students perform all carpentry functions including but not limited to framing, siding, hardwood floor installation, underlayment,cabinet installation, and finish carpentry. Time is limited to about 2-1/2 hours every other weekday.
What do you, the pros in the trades, feel should be emphasized in skills and attitudes? What do you want an apprentice to already know?
Thank You for your input.
Replies
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Don't watch me work, if you don't know what to do next, ask me.
Look for little problems and let me know before they become big problems.
Be inquisitive. Ask me why we're doing it that way. Don't assume I know what I'm doing. You'll learn something and maybe I will too.
When you go to the truck to get a box of nails, take back a tool you're done with on the same trip.
Read about your trade, get magazines, read books, chat with other pros on the internet.
Decide if you want to be a leader or a follower and act accordingly now. Staying out late, foul language, long hair, dirty clothes, and a "I'm just here to get paid today" attitude will assure that you'll always be the laborer.
Think, think, think. Know where the job is going and keep focused on that. Step back a couple of times a day and look at the big picture.
Just a few of my own ideas.
The best workers have always been the guys that didn't want to just be a worker.
*Ryan sums it up pretty well,think about what happens next and why.Someboby whose just along for the ride is a pain and slows everyone else down. I've always found the best new guys were the ones that when they finished doing something you told them found something else on there own to do, instead of standing around waiting to be told something else.(thats a mouth full) There's always something to do on a job site you just have to look.Vince
*If you want to serve your students best, divide them into two groups. First, the ones that ask questions, keep themselves busy, and show you respect.Second, the ones that just sit, hope you won't make them do anything, and make smart remarks.Teach the first group how to build a house.Teach the second group how to sweep up when the first group is done. (giving them some literature on collecting unemployment might serve them well too.)
*Very simple Chris. I have one basic philosophy that works for all occasions, and all trades.I am willing to teach a worker how to be a carpenter. I'm not willing to teach someone how to be a worker.If they don't know how to be a worker, there isn't a cold chance in hell that they will survive a day with me, even if they know everything about building houses.Teach em how to work.blue
*More...Skill alone won't hack it: The subjective term "attitude" comes up continually when top employees (or awful ones) are described. Ryan hit on a lot of things which describe a good attitude.My patience runs short when someone is habitually late for work.I respect someone who tells me he or she has made a mistake... The person is (a) cognizant of what is right and wrong, (b) has the humility to admit that even he or she isn't perfect, (c) is honest with me, and thus (d) honest with the client. I don't make a big fuss about first-time mistakes, and use the experience as a coaching tool to instruct so the error will not be repeated.Hopefully helpful, Steve
*Math. Almost everything in construction is covered in basic geometry, just takes a little on hands doing to have it come together. I had a teacher in trade school quickly show how to read it off the framing square(roof framing) then have us do in depth mathematical examples(framing a roof on paper) to learn how the framing square charts were written. After explained, it makes total sense,everything is a triangle. I can now do on a scientific calculator what most do on a construction master, and know why it works, and more importantly how to apply it in the field of remodeling when nothing is exactly as it first appears. More basic, proper use and care and RESPECT of tools, no handing down by the cord, no force it to cut, no chisel for a screw driver. A little real basic wiring ;white to white,test everything first and always assume hot, wire a ceiling fan ....and a little basic plumbing; sweating a joint, glueing pvc, set a faucet and toilet, will go a long way. Learning how to install and finish drywall will probably get them alot of jobs with guys looking for a smart helper. How to really read a tape! Vinyl siding. Same as applied to drywall.And humping and laying out shingles on a basic roof. But mostly Math. Jeff
*There is some great advise here. I hope your students realize that it's no coinsidence that just about everyone talks about attitude first. If you don't have a work ethic, you might as well forget about carpentry.I've worked with alot of guys. Most of them hard workers, a few bad apples stand out. The guy who wasn't dependable; the guy with the foul mouth who made lewd comments about every woman he saw; and the one who took every opportunity to drop what he was doing and jump into a conversation between a lead and a sub or homeowner when he should have been working.I've only worked with one guy who had the heart, but just couldn,t get anything done in a reasonable amount of time. As far as skills go, if they ever want to do finish work, they better learn to start splitting the spaces between those little lines on their tapes and miter saws. If they see someone doing something they want to learn (laying out rafers with a rafer square for example)they should ask to be shown how. (Simple math is important, teach them what Pathagorus taught us and how it relates to hip roofs and squaring up walls.) If they get an answer anything like "you don"t need to know" they better find a new place to work. I've found that the best workers, always want to know how to do all facets of the job, And that's the kind of guy I want to work with. After 22+years in this buisness, I still make a mistake now and then, and if I can have someone working with me who can catch a few of those mistakes because he (or she) knows what's going on, that's money in the bank. The guy who works hard and displays an attitude that says "I want to know everything you can teach me" gets noticed, is given responsibility, and earns more money than the guy who may know more, but doesn't know how to work. Sorry for rambling on, Steve.
*Hello Chris,First and foremost - teach them about safety. Not just words and phrases either. Drill it into them. Make them understand, and make them pay attention. They should make safety second nature to them. Unsafe workers cost more money for a GC or boss than anything else.I see young workers do stupid things like tying back the blade guard on their skil saws, then set it down after using it, while the blade is still turning fast. They learn this trick from some of the older guys. Teach them that just because some of the more experienced hands do things like this, it is still unsafe, and they should not do it.Also, ask this same question to the local contractors in your area. If, and when these younguns get out into the real world of carpentry, the local crews are where they will be working. We can generalize here, but the locals may have some specific needs that need to be met. Good work attitude and safe working practices and habits are first and foremost ANYWHERE in the world, but local needs should be met also.The reason I bring up locals is because in my region, Industrial Carpentry is more in demand than residential carpentry. There are a couple of large trade schools that train specifically for Industry (Petrochemical here), and these trade schools are owned and operated by all of the local construction companies that work in the plants. Not just anyone can go to these schools. The applicants must be refered by either a teacher of a recognized construction training program (such as local high school) or recommended by one of the construction companies themselves. They do not allow just anyone to come along and waste their valuable time and teaching resources. They want someone who already has the basic grasp of construction theories, math, and some formal training already. Just a thought...James DuHamel
*Blue summed it up nicely,but then he has a lot more experience than I have at hiring and firing.I can teach you the trade skills you need over time,but I will never be able to teach you to be resonsible.Either you are responsible or you are not responsible.Money comes from responsibility.I don't care that you are sleepy( should have gone to bed earlier---I have been up since 5:30 checking the weather and you don't hear me complaining)I don't care if you are hungry( you should have ate a big breakfast and packed a lunch)I don't care if you are thirsty( I told you to bring plenty of water,and you ain't drinking out of my water bottle)I don't care if you are cold (this isn't an indoor job,dress for it)I don't care if you have to go to the bathroom(You have only been on the job 25 minutes---what are you, a kindergardener?)I don't care if you are broke,you are not getting a cash advance.I do care that you show me,my customers,and my customers neighbors respect.I don't care if you need cigarretsI did not give you those nice company T-shirts for you to cut the sleeves off. I gave them to you so you could look presentable.That nice hooded sweatshirt with the company logo cost me $30. Don't cut extra holes in the sleeves for your thumbs so you can wear the sleeves like mittens----Buy your own workgloves!This company is in business to make money----you had better produce billable work at least double your hourly wage for me to break even. If I am losing money for long on you--your gone.Mistakes happen. Learn from mine and yours.Don't make the same ones over and over and over.Carry that the way I told you to carry it. Set it down where I told you to set it.If you can smoke while you are working,you aren't working hard enough.You are here to help me,I am not here to help you.I could go on all day on this topic,but in short,BE AN ADULTGood Luck,Stephen
*Chris,These are good. Make a poster of these, or pass them out to your students.
*not much to add to the above with this possible exception- First Aid. It's a dangerous profession and a little training can save lives...
*Jeff makes one of the best suggestions yet, teach them the basics of the framing square it will serve them the rest of their working live.How many times have you found guys that can't read a tape? What are those little lines?Unbelievable.Put a stronge emphasis on building square, level and plumb.Brace properly to keep everything square, level and plumb every guy who comes on the job after you will thank you for it.Vince
*Chris,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*As an example last week i was getting ready to dig footings. I called for utility locations . Every thing but the water is in the footings . So I had to dig by hand to expose the electrical cable gas and phone . As I was digging to 20 year olds came by and asked for jobs . I said i am not ready to hire a full timer yet but I would consider it . I am doing a full house remodel mostly alone . I said they could dig for me they said they were only interested in being carpenters . I thought what a great way to see if a young guy is worth hiring . Give him a hole to dig . I think you catch my drift .
*Stephen, I may have summed it up nicely, but you have spelled it out better. I had to laugh, knowing that you have lived through the same conversations many times, as I have. I don't bother talking anymore, I just send them packing!Heres a few more.I don't care if your not feeling good, I don't feel that great either.I don't care what you watched on the tube late last night, I was sleeping.I don't care that you lost a utility knife, I'm not going to lend you mine. Since I know I can't trust you to carry a spare, in case I lost mine, I always carry a spare for myself. And no, you can't borrow it. Chew the damn wood off the pencil, Beaverbreath!No, you can't borrow my nail puller. I don't carry this "extra" weight in my pouch to make your life easier. How about letting me empty my apron in a large toolbox, and you can follow me around all day and hand me the appropriate tool, like a nurse does for a surgeon? Oh, by the way, you'll have to work for free too!No, you can't borrow my toilet paper, unless you want to dig it out of the porta potty.No, you can't borrow my large glue gun, especially since you intend to get goop all over it and ruin it. You can simply squeeze the glue out of your own tube of glue with your bare hands, if you are too cheap to buy a ten dollar tool to assist you in your chosen profession.No you can't borrow any tool from me, for any amount of time. If you want to use tools, buy them. Tools will make you more valuable to me.Besides, the only guy that has ever walked away with my tools in his belt, never owned them in the first place. It sickens me to know that I own two or three low angle planes out there in some guys garage, that doesn't have a clue how to use them.Hey this is fun!I don't care if you can't cash your check after work because the lines are too long. Try budgeting your money a little better and it will last till monday!No I'm not going to lend you a dollar for gas, until the last guy comes back and pays up the two that he borrowed (he never will). Funny, you managed to find 3$ for cigarettes, but couldn't find money for your fuel tank.No, I don't care that your muffler fell off and the cops stopped him and wrote a ticket. I'm just going to find someone that cares enough about his bsic employment needs (translation: transportation) to keep it in decent running shape. Nice knowing you!No, I don't care that you have A.D.D. and don't know how to listen to me. I'll allow you to walk away once, and I will stop and correct you. After that, I don't have a detention hall, and this isn't high school. Your fired! If you seem especially promising, I might tolerate it a few more times, but my patience was limited out back in the 80's. Now it's your turn to have patience, with me.No, your cutesy line of b.s. won't work on me. I don't have to tolerate it, I'm not getting paid to teach you, I'm getting paid to stand up this house. Shut up and work!I don't care if the line at the Deli was long. It only took me two seconds to unwrap my PBJ, and I'm not late getting back for lunch. Maybe you can stop back at the deli and get a job since they seem to need extra help at lunch time!I don't care if you couldn't find your way to the job. Obviously you didn't learn map-reading skills in high school, and there's probably a ton of other things that you didn't learn too. Now you have learned that you get fired for coming late on the first day on the job (I've met them at the curb and told them to not bother getting out)!I could go on, and on, and on, and on...Feeling better,blue
*This is one of the best discussions yet. Doug, right on with the first aid bit. Chris, you may want to consider talking with the local fire department/rescue squad and having them hold a class to certify your students in CPR and first aid. Or even better yet, get them all certified as First Responders - then you'll know that they will know what to do should something happen on the job site. Also, don't waste your time with those who don't respect you - they won't last long in the business anyways. Teach those who really want to learn as much as you can. I am interested to hear how this all turns out - Nick
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I think the best thing that could happen, would be, have Blue and Stephen sign up as “substitute teachers” you know, fill in if your sick…..or planning a vacation. You just can’t teach “REAL WORLD” in a classroom even if it is outside and taxpayer supported. I work in a small town environment, (25,000 pop.) there is community college class of around 30 to 40 students that build a house every year. I’ve built right across the street from their projects more than once. I’ve seen three (3) different instructors over the years. Don’t know what actual number have graduated and become gainfully employed as “Carpenter” my guess, it’s less than 1 % per year. Seems most of class is made up of state aided students, (get paid while attending classes) so they take this class because they think there won’t be any homework. I’M NOT JOKING.
Well one year seems instructor could take a leave of absence so they got a “REAL WORLD” contractor to take over for that winter. This was a particularly large class that fall, by the way, so he starts teaching in the “REAL WORLD WAY’, I think he may have been on one of “Blue’s” crew at one time or another, anyway class starts in September, there were only 6 students left by November, so the school administration called up first instructor (who was on sabbatical) and told him if he didn’t come back and take over the class there wouldn’t be a program left to come back to. Long story short, he came back by December, real world teacher, quit, and the cycle repeats itself every year.
I will admit it's not easy training the untrainable, and no amount of preparation will change them. Let'em know they will have to like what they are doing first & foremost. If they are working at the trade 1 year after class they probably do.
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One more: show up on time.
A boring story: My dad put an ad in the paper a couple of years ago. He needed 15 guys to work on his nursery for a couple of months. The ad said show up at 7:30 ready to work, the best 15 will get the job.
Only 12 showed up, all hired immediately. One guy showed up 20 minutes late, rode his bike all the way from town, maybe 10 miles. The guy gave my dad the story about how dedicated he was, he even rode his bike all the way. The guy was sent home without a job of course. Performance matters, no body on the job wants to hear your bs.
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I would like to give everybody that has responded so far a sincere thanks. So much of this is solid gold.
When I came into this program 5 years ago from the field it was a little shocking at first. I had spent the last 9 years as a field supervisor for a residential builder and was accustomed to getting good results quickly and efficiently. This can be challenging with a sometimes too-big group of teenagers.
I inherited a program that had existed for 20+ years with a good reputation. The teacher who had ran the program for the past 15 years stayed on while I taught basic Woods and Cabinetry. I knew my business but found I had a tremendous amount to learn about patience and teaching.
I find that I get the best results by being a bit of an authoritarian tyrant(my natural state). What better way to prepare them for an employer? I feel strongly that if they do not learn respect first, that I am doing them and their tax-paying parents a disservice. Everything runs smoother when the expectations are crystal clear.
Surprisingly at first, and then not so much later, I found the students seemed to crave the discipline and structure. I thought it was so important that I worked it into my basic grading system in every class from basic Woods to Advanced Construction (the house class). Students come to class knowing they earn up to 5-points a day based on the following criteria:, 1) Prompt, 2)Prepared, 3)Safety, 4)Work Ethic, and 5)Quality. I liken this to pay on a job and they either buy into it or they won't cut it.
We have almost 300 students come through our Woods and Construction classes each year, but the house project only accepts 16 (juniors and seniors)By the time they get to this class discipline is almost a non-issue. This group is pretty much self motivated and eager to learn. I had to fight to be allowed to enforce strict prequisites, but we have to produce a quality product or we have no business building the house.
Our plans are fairly simple one-levels(safety & simplicity)and generally get no larger than 1800 square feet. There is so much to do and there never seems to be enough time to cover everything I want them to know, so the focus for me has been carpentry, estimating, the critical path, and exposure to related careers. This year I made Larry HaunHaun'srpentry - HomebuildHome building(Taunton) our class text. The kids loved his framing videos and were eager to work like Mr Haun when we went to the jobsite. I think they learned as much about work ethic watching him work as they did about basic carpentry.(He was also kind enough to visit the class when he was in the area and tought a unit on stair cutting. The kids were a bit awestruck upon his arrival but loosened up and did a good job with their plywood mock-ups)
I have had kids tell me that I am not as mean and strict as I used to be. My reply has been that I am the same, they are just better behaved. If you act like adults you will be treated accordingly, the same is true if you act like mouthy punks. Most of them conduct themselves as they know their parents would want them too as a representative of their respective families.
We do not pay our kids. They earn credit and get to expeience some of the pride that many of you do every day. We payback all the funds we borrow from the district every year and put the profits into a fund that I hope will make us self funding in the next 5 years. The kids know our survival depends on their successs and for the most part they rise to the occaision.
It is absurd to think that we would turn out a jouneyman carpenter, but what we do turn out is a pretty sharp apprentice with good basic skills who is ready to learn. Thank you again for all the input. I printed out the first 10 responses to share with the class and it looks like I will have to run a part 2.
Chris
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I teach a still evolving construction program in Oregon. Juniors and seniors who have satisfied basic wood working/safety prerequisites in other classes in the program can apply to this class. Through the course of a 9-month school year the students build a single family residence somewhere in town. Students perform all carpentry functions including but not limited to framing, siding, hardwood floor installation, underlayment,cabinet installation, and finish carpentry. Time is limited to about 2-1/2 hours every other weekday.
What do you, the pros in the trades, feel should be emphasized in skills and attitudes? What do you want an apprentice to already know?
Thank You for your input.
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Clean up your mess. Periodically during the day, and definitely at the end of the day. Put the tools back where they belong.
Rich Beckman