I heat my home with natural gas and a forced air furnace. Last month’s bill was pretty high and I decided to try out a theory. I live in Kansas.
I now get up at 6 AM and turn off the furnace. The house then slowly cools all day. By evening the temp in the house is 60 to 65 and I wear a long sleeve shirt.
At bedtime I turn the furnace back on and warm the house to 70 degrees and at initial start up it may take 30 min to an hour to warm the house to that temp.
I got my latest bill today and see that my gas bill went from $200 lat month down to $135 and I think I’ll continue doing this for the next few months til spring.
I think I’m also saving on electricity as I don’t have the furnace electric motor starting up and shutting off, starting up and shutting off, starting up and shutting off.
Has anyone else tried this method? The opposing view is to just keep your house at a constant temp 24 hours a day. I think my way is more efficient and will lower energy usage.
Agree?
.
-Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain-
Replies
What is the square footage of the home? Is the house a 2 story, ranch, spit-entry? When was the house built? Are the windows and doors energy efficient? Insulation in attic and walls? Just curious because I have a 2 story home (2600 sq ft) built in 1920 that I've updated with new windows and insulation. We keep our thermostat at 66 and our furnace (natural gas forced air) seems to hardly run but our gas bill last month was $240.00. If your theory works, I am very interested. I know gas prices are high but we're aweful chilly for the money.
House is 1250 sq feet ranch built in 1957 or 58. What's interesting is the furnace in this house is over 30 years old..++++++++++++++++
-Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain-
If your furnace is over 30 years old, I'd think you ought to be figuring how long the 'payback' would be to replace it, if you want to save money. I suspect natural gas is not going to get a lot cheaper, in the long run.
Yes, it is called setback and the "energy people" have been recommending it for years.
But it works better with a setback thermostat for several reasons.
That 60-65 degrees at the end of the day might be 50-55 if you have cold spell.
And I like it cool while I sleep. Typically you can get ones with 4 times changes.
So 70 in the moring, 65 during the day, 70 in the even, and 68 overnight.
I'm w/ others who recommend thermostat w/ different settings for different times / needs during dayand i must say you have me totally discombobulated
the majority of us sheep think of a setback time as being bedtimewith what little I know of your lifestyle ( I tend to like people who are different ) and don't waste your time responding to me but what happens if you install a modern thermostat ( about as easy as installing a dimmer switch ) and have it come on 30 minutes before you arrive home from your workday ( thirty minutes to heat your house to speed ) and shut down about one hr before going to bed and wear some wool sox and a polypropylene shirt if you must then warm up w/ a cup a tea in the morning ( and a warm shower ) and be off to work for the daymight that cut a third more heat and be more comfortable?
I'll go back to chopping wood now
Set backs work so well that the utility company I work for is giving them away when a customer switches to our equalized monthly payment plan.
To really check on savings, one needs to look at the actual gas usage, not the money amount, and the average temperature for the billing period. Simply stating that one saved $$ from one month to the next can be very misleading.
Another factor to consider is the "fuel adjustment" amount included in most bills. A high bill for the December cycle may be indicative of the high prices passed along due to the shortages created by the hurricanes ( in some area that increase was 70%). As oil platforms and refineries came back on line in December and January the price of natural gas dropped as much as 30%. The January cycle will reflect that decrease in the fuel adjustment for that period.
The same fuel adjustments are made in the electric rates to reflect the spot market prices of fossil fuels. In winter months the demand for electric generation is much lower than summer, and most power plants are operating at way less than peak capacity. This means that they use much less fuel to generate electricity, the amount purchased is smaller and so are the cost adjustments.
Still it all comes back to temperature and usage.
Compare them, and the figure out how much is saved.
Dave
We don't have a fuel adjustment on for our electric. (Acutally there is some very minor adjustment, term, but it is very small and not sure exactly what it is).But we have good winter rates. The base rate for the first xxx kWh is the constant. Then for the 4 summer months it goes up for increased usage.In the other months it steps down to about 3.4 cents for the highest usage. And there is another 10% reduction if you use electric for primary house heating.
Your method is sound and will save significant energy, mostly fuel, but some electricity, too. Like others said, a setback thermostat is much easier. You can have the heat come up, say, a half hour before your alarm goes off in the morning and again a half hour before anyone comes home in the afternoon, so it is convenient and comfortable.
I'd recommend a 7 day model so you can keep the heat on all day on weekends or whatever fits your schedule.
Stay away from battery powered models unless you carefully read the directions. On many of them if the battery dies so does your heat. You would not want to be away at Christmas and have the battery die while you are gone. You could either get a model with a hard wired backup that will give you default heat even with a dead battery, or get a model that doesn't use a battery. Carrier make some really nice ones that don't use batteries.
Of course insulation, weatherstripping, and so forth can also save big bucks.
HoneyWell makes nice thermostats too, though a little price. White-rodgers are decent. I had a lot of trouble with Hunter.
The smaller the temperature differential the slower the heat loss. A programmable thermostat is the way to go.
Here is my last month's gas bill.
You have a $14K gas bill on your home!?! There ain't a font big enough for 'holy sh!t' that effectively describes my shock. Have you thought about arson and starting over? :)
That's my thought too.
I emailed them last week making sure they don't try to take the money out of my account because I am on a pre-authorized payment plan and besides I don't have that kind of money in there. So far I haven't heard from them so I'm going to call them tomorrow to find out exactly what the hll is going on.
Tom,I got a water bill like that once. It was an error reading the meter. Mine was alarming, but not as huge as yours! They took care of it when I called them. Such happenings are one reason I still pay my bills by check. It does not get paid until it passes the smell test.Bill
I feel much better now knowing that I am not the only one hit with such a gas bill.
Called them today they assured me that the $13 something K automatic withdrawal had been taken out of the system and I'll get a new estimate equal monthly payment of ~$200.
The thing is their meter reader (the machine, not the person) is actually pretty smart and it doesn't accept any reading that is out of the ordinary. May be the person overrode the machine or there were some screw up in their computer.
We started doing the same thing this winter. Works pretty well. I really don't mind it at all. ANd it's definatly worth it when the bill comes in.
Ugha Chaka! Ugha Chaka! Ugha, Ugha, Ugha, Chaka!
Of course you don't mind you lunk, you're in NO most of the time where it is warm while your wife is freezing! DanT
LOL. That might be it. I should thaw her out and ask.
Ugha Chaka! Ugha Chaka! Ugha, Ugha, Ugha, Chaka!
Another one for a setback thermostat.
My furnace goes up at 6:00 and down at 8:30 when people leave for the day - to 55 deg F. At 3:00 it goes back up to 65 and down at 11 pm to 57.
If you are married I think you family is going to get a little upset with the penny pinching. Keep it comfortable and raise your rates a little, but do use a steback thermostat like the others suggest.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
Spooky. Those thermostat numbers are almost mine exactly. mine are 64 mornings and evenings, 54 daytime and nighttime. I don't think I could get to sleep if it was 70 at night in the winter. I'm entirely used to wearing long underwear 8 months a year, too. 54 during the day gives me good reason to do some work, and not just sit around at this computer.zak
Two suggestions: First, take a look at your roof one morning with frost or new snow on it and see where the frost/snow is melting. That will give you an idea of how much heat you're losing due to air leaks and poor insulation. Compare your roof to your neighbors' - see how well your house does.
Second, when we lived in Spokane, WA we had a 30-year old furnace (natural gas, forced air) that was way oversized and probably had 65% efficiency. Rather than replace it, we installed a natural gas direct vent heater in the living room that was rated at 13,000 Btu (pretty small!). Cost about $600 for the heater (Ecotherm) and $500 for the install. But it required no electricity to run so our logic was that it would still operate if we had an extended power failure. Our gas bills that winter went down by half. Of course, the back bedrooms were cool but the little heater kept the living room warm. There were some issues; I put it under a window and when the outside temps went to -30F one week it frosted up the outside of the window pretty badly. But then I hate forced air - noisy, blows dust that makes me cough, etc.
Something I did not seem mentioned was that your furnace may have a standing pilot light. All newwr ones have electronic ignition. I swapped out a 35 year old crhysler furnace for a new (2004) cheappey and the bill dropped for every month of the year. This includes the in creased cost of nat. gas. Also insulate all of the duct runs for max heat transfer.
I've thought about buying a new furnace but my situtation is I don't stay in one house for more than a few years. I bought this house 2.5 years ago and I'll put it on the market in the next few months, sell it, and move into another fixer upper.If I reside in the home for at least two years, then I do not have to pay taxes on the profit from the sale of the home.My house before this one - I had a new furnace installed shortly after I bought the house (80 percent furnace). It was a cheapy and cost $1400 for the furnace and installation. Two guys installed the new furnace in one day. The house had a basement.Over the years I had heard it said to "just leave the thermostat alone" as it was cheaper to keep the house at a constant temp. I think that is a myth. As in keeping the house at a cool setting such as 68 degrees for 24 hours a day.I appreciate the comments about the programmable thermostat. I'm going to look into it.Thanks again!.++++++++++++++++
-Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain-
You are right. Keeping the house at a constant temperature will cost more than setting the thermostat back. If you have high thermal mass (concrete floors, radiant floor heat) the savings will be less than with standard construction, but there will always be savings.
Not all newer furnaces/boilers have electronic ignition. My boiler was replaced last year (Weil McLain CGA Gold) and it has a pilot. I was surprised by this. The previous owner of my house replaced the unit.
When the heating season is over, I plan to turn off the gas to save a few bucks by not having the pilot on. In some ways, I can see how having a pilot might be better than having electronic ignition. At my old house, I had one of those glow plugs and over a period of 9 years, I had to replace it 3 times at a cost of $100 each time. My plumber says that the newer ones are more sturdier so that you shouldn't have to replace the glow plug that often.
When the heating season is over, I plan to turn off the gas to save a few bucks by not having the pilot on.
Here is my understanding on leaving the pilot on over the summer. You save about $5 in gas by turning the pilot off but the heat exchanger will rust faster because the pilot keeps the RH low around the exchanger. May be somebody can tell me how much of a difference it would make in the lifespan of the furnace.
I had one of those glow plugs
You talking about the thermal couple? I found that sometimes they can really last and last and other times you have to keep replacing them. I am still scratching my head on this one.
I watched the technician use sandpaper to clean corrosion off of a small, thermocouple type device on my electronic ignition Lenox.
Other than the dismantling of the tubes to get to, it was a quick, $93 fix. Now I think I can do it.
Tech said it's common on my series. I hear that on everything they repair on my 8 yr old furnace.Pete
If you have an electronic ignition then it does not have a termocouple.It has a flame sensor.
but the heat exchanger will rust faster because the pilot keeps the RH low around the exchanger.
What's RH? Relative Humidity? I usually run a dehumidifier in my basement to keep it somewhat dry so I think that should prevent it from getting rust.
You talking about the thermal couple?
Nope. It's my understanding that the proper name is "Hot Surface Ignitor". Apparently they can be very fragile and easy to break. Not sure why I had to replace mine that frequently. According to the tech, he says that the average life expectancy of a HSI is about 5 years.
I had looked into buying a spare one or two on the internet but found that the price saving was minimal between what I could pay for it and what my tech would charge me.
Someone earlier mentioned a cold house and that it's not a good policy with children in the house. I agree and I'm in a situation where I don't have any young kids in the house and I'm pretty much here by myself.I admire the people who wrote about keeping their house at 50 some degrees and cutting their energy bills by 50 to 75% or whatever. I guess I'm a little tight with my money and if I can save a C-note by simply wearing a long sleeve sweatshirt I'm going to do it.I was just wanting to throw out something else here: Has anyone come up with a "reasonable" way to shut off their furnace completely? I would like to throw the switch and completely turn it off. Has anyone done this? It gets pretty cold here at night. Lately it's been in the 20's.I'm thinking about buying one of those free standing heaters you get at home depot. I think they run on some kind of liquid fuel. Has anyone tried this or anything else?Thanks for any suggestions..++++++++++++++++
-Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain-
"I had one of those glow plugs"These glow plugs are for lighting the gas. They glow red and the gas ignites without the spark of the electronic types of igniters. My Trane furnace has one.The thermocouple is used with a pilot system to make sure the pilot is lit. It closes the gas valve (solenoid) if there is no pilot.Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
Thank you for making everything clear.
I have a trane installed about three years ago and lately I have noticed that the furnace is kind of laboring, like somebody trying to catch their breath. My next door neighbour knocked on my door two days ago to bring the same thing to my attention. He had similar problem happened to him before and he discovered a kink in the condensate drain hose that caused the water to back up into the furnace so he thought he might be able to find something similar in my furnace, but no luck.
The service guy is coming tomorrow for maintenance and look at the problem.
We have ours set at 60°f when we are home and lower it to 56° when we are at work. When company stops by, we turn it up to 64°. We always wear sweaters and seldon have colds. We sleep in hooded sweatshirts. Our daughters visit and accuse us of being nuts. We are comfortable with the lower temps. It took a few days to get use to it but now 70° seems so hot. I am uncomfortable when I am inside someone else's house.
Even though the house is 50 years old there are no drafts. This summer I am going to blow in fiberglass insulation into the walls. I will also insulate the heat ducts in the crawlspace with fiberglass to prevent loss in those big old round ducts.
Good luck.
Invest in a programmable thermostat. The better ones allow up to 5 settings a day and can be programmed for individual days or weekday and weekend settings.
During the week I set mine to go down to 62 at 11pm and then up to 68 at 5am and then down to 62 at 7am and then up to 68 again at 4pm. This keeps it cool when no one is home, it is warm when we get up and are in the house.
They also usually have a temporary override function where you can adjust the temp up or down for a period of time.
They usually pay for themselves in a few months of savings.