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I’m a construction supervisor for a small design/build firm going through some growing pains. I’m looking for advice from anyone out there who has had experience with interviewing prospective carpenters/ subcontractor. I’m in the process of putting together a list of questions to ask.
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People lie.
That's how I got my first carpentry job 26 years ago. Thank God they knew I was lying.
If you want to hire carpenters, then hire a real carpenter to hire your carpenters. I can tell in about 3 questions how much experience a man has. I can look at his tools and tell you what he can do. I can look in his eye and tell you if he will be a good employee. Sound like bull, but I have the track record to prove it. We have 20 carpenters working for us......all good men.
All I can say is that if you don't know anything about carpentry, then you better find someone who does before you start hiring carpenters.
Good Luck,
Ed. Williams
*Kris, ask them anything you think may be remotely relevant to the trade you are hiring them to do.Like Ed said be ready for the B.S to fly.Ask them a few questions about the U.B.C.(stair rise and run.Ask them to layout a rafter and hand them a framing square and see what happens.Rough openings for standard doors(2-8 6-8)and most af all good luck you'll need it.jim
*First I would test there blueprint reading skills by sending them to the breaktime homepage. If they can read the titles of each thread in order then i would say they are capable of reading even the most detailed blue prints. In addition to the other stuff posted find out who they were working for and why they left. As much work as there is right now if they are not working something is usually wrong. I normally start a new man out as a helper to see what he knows. Pay him low for a couple weeks. If he has the stuff then raise him up quickly. Tell him you are doing this up front. If he wants to work he will do it...This is not union country here so we can do that. May not be possible where you are
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When I interviewed for my first real job I was upfront with my skills and experience. I found out quickly that my honesty would pay off. The owner moved me up quickly and respected what I could do and taught me what I should have already known.
I never realized how valuble and rare it was for the owner to have someone who was on time, trustworthy and willing to learn new ideas until I left the company, and then he was honest with me.
Good luck.
BTW: Does anyone really have the FNG build a sawhorse or is that just legend ?
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A bit of a tangent....
It is amazing how few people doing interviews are any good at it. Over and over, the person who gets hired is the one who looks them in the eye and says "I can do this job." Of course, a large percentage of the time, he or she
i can't
do the job.
Never ask a question that can be answered with a yes or no. Get them talking about their previous jobs, what they liked, what they didn't like.
If they claim to know framing, I like the idea of handing them a square and saying have at it.
Good Luck,
Rich Beckman
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I still have new guys build saw horses. I also ask guys to build me a 3 by 4 box. I do not give them any direction. I find this exercise to be revealing. How long do they take what materials did they choose how was it fastened. How much detail or thought went into the box.
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Bulldog,
Yeah, it happened to me back in 1980 or so. I quess I did alright. The house took about eight months to finish.........then they didn't have another one and I was laid off again.
Standard practice at the time.
Ed. Williams
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Kris
As a carpenter of more than 20 years I have come to realize that there are 5 important qualities of good carpenters.
1. The ability to read plans and visualize the intended result.
2. A good understanding of mathematics.
3. A good understanding of structure from an engineering standpoint.
4. An eye for aesthetics for exposed framing and for finish work.
5. A thirst for increased knowledge. (Do they read Fine Homebuilding, Fine Woodworking, or similar publications.)
If you can incorporate these into question and answer form you will cull out many prospective carpenters.
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Kris,
View Image
© 1999-2000
"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it."
Aristotle
*Kris, ask em which way the bevel edge of the hanger rail on a dictionary shelf should face, that will weed out the duds right quick! Mickey
*Headlines at Breaktime....b aj agrees with Fusco...Good Carpenters are lousey at interviews...Good interviewers are either temporarily unemployed contractors or bulls@@t artists.near the stream, letting em have at it,ajI hate training anyway unless I'm getting paid $100/hour minimum.
*Kris,For a trim carpenter:In his tool box he should have:A scribe....not a compass, a scribe.A plumb bob. (Braided string).A Stanley 60 1/2 low angle block plane. (Sharp).Several rasps and files, including a rats tail.A large and small tri-square.Chisels (sharp or at least a good edge).A good quality level. Not some cheap junk.An escutcheon alignment tool (for hardware).Lots of phillips and robertson tips.Glaziers and flat bars.Nail sets. (A drift pin would be nice to see).Folding rule with slide bar.A good handsaw (optional with men under 30).A coping saw.If he doesn't have these things, you may be wasting your time and his by hiring him just to fire him tomorrow. And then you get the joy of having him on your books for the rest of the year.To a good creative trim man, these are basic survival tools. All good trim carpenters will have these with few substitutions or exceptions. Don't be shy......ask a man who knows tools to show you his tools and we will be glad to. You will probably get the history of where he came by this or that.Also, if he says he left his tools at home or something, be wary. I never stopped by a job looking for work without having my tools in tow. There are exceptions to that, but it's not the norm. I've had a few guys tell me, "My tools got stolen last week, maybe I can use yours till I get some new ones". This is possible.......but........trust your gut in that situation.It's true you can't judge a book by it's cover, but tools don't lie. If he doen't have the basic stuff, you can bet he doesn't know how to use them either and therefore lacks some very basic (and nesessary) experience. It's best if the tools are well used. A good coat of sawdust in his tool box never hurt.Framers are a different story.......I'll let someone else fill you in on that one.Good Luck,Ed. Williams
*mickey,Not to many cabinet makers use hanger rails on uppers down here. But it's a good questions.Ans: Long point up and out. How about this one: What's the difference between a crosscut and a rip blade?Ed. Williams
*You still build stairs on-site ?
*Shitfire! In this day and age, get the c***ksucker (sorry, been working with greeks) to fax you his/her resume'!
*Interesting list of tools Ed; may I ask you some questions about them? 1) The 60 1/2 Stanley is a tiny tool, it's fine for someone with a small hand, and yet you were very specific: don't you give some leeway to someone who uses a Veritas, LN, Falcon, Primus, Rali, or even a Record (all better fitting to a full-sized hand)? And does anyone actually use these more than once a year ? 2) Everyone has a "try square", but wouldn't it be just as important to make sure they have an engineer's square in their box to set up the mitre saw and that they have either a miter square or a combination square if they're doing trim work. 3) A blindman rule with a slidebar ? Have you seen the quality of what's available lately ? Check his/her steel meter-stick/straight edge and the condition of their left-hand reading tape measure maybe ? 4) An "escutcheon alignment tool" ? There's a tool to align those little metal plates that protect the edges of a keyhole ? And you wouldn't hire anyone to do trim who doesn't have one ? Stepladder, Warrington Hammer, and a CMS/SCMS don't even make your list and you insist on an alignment tool for eschutcheon plates ?
*Fax ? You still use fax ? You're just going to receive it with the fax modem of your computer anyways - who doesn't have Email and their resume, if they have one, done in Word '97 ?
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framers who can follow layout for joist and walls probably have a ford escort with a cooler, four pairs of socks, two tee-shirts, boots, a couple of twenty ounce Cokes and maybe a raincoat.
Framers who can follow layout for joist and wall, but have heart to advance have all the above, plus one skilsaw,a hose and cord, and maybe a gun. And rainpants
I really enjoyed the advice to let the mans work speak for him, instead of smooth speech across a desk. Then I'd try to save a days supervision by giving the ol' 3x4 box test. I
i like
it.
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Kris,
I have to agree with Ed, have a carpenter do your interviews or at least be presents during the interview. It's kind of like taking your mechanic with you when you by a used truck. You can tell a lot about a carpenter by his tools. Ask him how many saws he has; circular, jig or saber, sawsall, miter, slider, table, copping, hand (no plug), ect. He doesn't have to have all of them, but over the years you seem to accumulate them. They would not all be brand new either. That will thin out some but not all. I can remember one guy who had just about ever tool you could ask for. It took about two days to find out they were his father's. AJ and Joe advice of watching the guy work would seem prudent.
Haven't seen anyone have to build sawhorses in years.
*Aside from the wisdom above ask him if he would be willing to take a drug test.
*Hey Phill,As I said, there are exceptions and substitions. There were items I didn't list like ladders. I supply those.The 60 1/2 is the ultimate trim plane in my mind. It can shave end grain smooth as silk, and yes, we use them everyday. Any good low angle plane will do in a pinch.A tri-square and a combo square are the same thing. Maybe different people call them different things in different parts of the country. As I said, there can be substitions.The slide bar is great for measuring into dado's, inside cabinet measurments and such. It's just the begining of the measuring tools.Alingment tool......let's say you're hardwaring out a house. You've set a passage latch, and the escutcheons are the kind that screw on to a sub base plate. Run the alingment tool spindle (which is a spindle with two beveled nuts at each end) through the diamond hole in the passage latch and slip the two sub bases over the spindle on each side of the door. Then tighten down the two beveled nuts and presto. Both sub plates are perfectly aligned with the passage latch on both sides of the door. Then mark the screw holes, remove the tool and screw the sub plates to the door. You can then screw on the decorative rosettes and put the real spindle and knobs on. If you ever saw one and had to do this a lot, you would go to the ends of the earth to find one. Baldwin sells them, and some of the better hardware sets come with a plastic one in the box. My list is by no means complete. But if a carpenter has this stuff, he probably knows how to use it.Ed. Williams
*allen,Are you kidding?Half the carpenters in the United States would fail.I thought that if this became an issue for a client of mine, I would take the test on behalf of the crew. If that's not good enough for them, then let them hire someone else.Ed. Williams
*Mighty well said, Ed..
*I'm laughing about the drugs and alcohol issues, but seriously, I will let you in on good crew secret number 29...There are two types of guys around here...religious (to a zeal) & drug/alcohol dependents...I am leaning toward the bible boys these days...They even seem to smoke less, which is nice for me, the site and the client.near the stream, really lovin Labor Ready and subs. too,aj
*Ed,I'm not trying to be combative but alignment tool? I've been a Carpenter for a long time now and have made many a cabinet, nailed up miles and miles of trim and have hardware-ed (?)and hung enough doors to fill a warehouse. I've red your post several times over now and still can't figure out what an escutcheon alignment tool is or why I don't seem to need one. If there is one thing I've learned the importance of over the years, it's to do more with less. As a finish man I think we fall victim to "Hey, I could buy that!" easier than most Carpenters. These past few years I've been going to school on the real old guys (the ones on the brink of retirement) and have started to see the importance of getting the most use out of few tools as possible. For one thing you have less to lugg into the house and less to keep track of once it gets there. For another, I think it's a demonstration of a mans skill not to have to rely on every new gaget that comes along. On another note, any finish man without a block plane.....check that....any finish man that doesn't make almost constant use of his block plane, is no finish man at all!!!!! I would rather have my Record low angle over a Stanley any day!!!! I'm also not sure I understand why my compas is inferior to a dedicated scribe tool. It works mighty good for scribin' plus it makes those curves and them there little circles. Got to go.Be Well, Phat Bastard
*Ed, I don't mean to sound like I have an attitude about the drug issue but I'm seeing clowns passing joints around while their on the clock and I guess if I hire any help I'll be hunting for the half of the carpenters that can pass the test. Al
*Used to be a tech school who had a contest with the second year student carpenters. Each was given everything needed to build a miniature one room house. Had door, window, dormer, etc. Lots of parents came. Funny thing was there were many carpenters in the audience too looking the students over. Tested the students brains cause the structure only had a five foot ceiling. Now where I live anyone who owns a hammer calls himself a carpenter. I add water to Aunt Jemima Complete and get excellent pancakes. Guess I'll look for work as cook.
*If you doi not already know themcheck referenceshire them on a 1 week basis at a timelook at their toolslook at previous workAnother option is to go through a temp service, find a good one and buy him out Pay in advance a months temp agency commission or With us and our temp service we use we can find a good guy , offer him work and notify the temp agency. He/she then has to notify the agency. They must continue to work fo the temp for 30 days so they make their money, but a benefit is you can change your mind, and in the meantime they still have all medical and workers comp through the temps in case something happens. We then pay the new employee a "bonus" so he makes a bit more money in the mantime.Another option is word of mouth with the buddies. When I need someone I let the local lumber yard know and a few friends ( other contractors) and soon enough somewone turns up .You do not have to drug test but tell them that you do on occassionIf they are going to drive a vehicle of yours , run their drivers licence. Youu may find that they can not drive your rigs becuse of problems, will that cause you a problem getting them to a job or sending them for materials.If they have a building licence check to see if their has been any problems. Out here they have a registration web site that we can type in their name, or registration number or phone number and see if therye has been problems with their work Have they been a general in the past. Are they only out of work temporarily because of an issue or becausee it is slow and they will drop you like a rock when they are offered work under theri own namejust thoughts for the day
*allen,I agree......if I see someone passing joints around while on my clock..............fired.It's never happened. But what a man does on his own time is not my business.....unless......it effects my business. Then he's gone.I'm not trying to be cop, daddy, councelor or best friend, I'm just running a business here.Ed. Williams
*Hey Phat,No problem buddy. An alignment tool is not the kind of thing that everyone has. Maybe Baldwins web site has them shown. I don't know. I wouldn't hire on the basis of if the person had one or not. It would just be nice to see. I was probably 15 years into this before I knew they existed.More with less.........Amen.The old ones taught me that if you don't use it for a year, get rid of it. I'm glad to see that someone else knows this.Hey man, Record Rules. Great tools. But I ain't giving up my Stanley.Scribing can be done with a block and a pencil. Hey, one less tool to lug around, right?Ed.
*Hey aj,Fusco's be quite a gentlemen lately. Good for him. Life is much better that way. Except for the quirk about your mother. Dissapointing, but parr.I'm curious as to how many carpenters you have personally hired in the last year or so.Just curious. I had the impression that you were a one man show.What's your story?Ed. Williams
*Hey Ed(dot),
View Image © 1999-2000
*I have hired a bunch over the years...I love flying solo these days unless there is heavy labor...I may never have a carpenter on payroll again in my life though....I much prefer the other options that I am now using and have mentioned...My main situation is that I make a much better living with laborers at my direction rather than skilled workers...I have not yet met a guy who can work 1/3 the speed of myself if left on his own unless he is doing repetitive work. So my laborers only do labor or repetitive work that they have done enough to work on there own. The key word here is b very repetitve work!!! The more repetitive the better. I still enjoy perfect work and execution but get much more out of seeing how fast things can go... Your situation is not the same. I'm sure what you are doing is continuous quantity quality carpentry that benefits from having a paid carpentry workforce...I manage my work and or do the technical work along with the grunt work if only I am needed and it isn't a ten hour day of shovelling.Near the stream, into speed these daysaj
*Ed, I think I just figured Fusco out...A friend's nephew was in town for a week...cute kid...and you knew he liked you when he started hitting you!!!...No kidding...I told some friends what I thought and the next time they saw me, they had to tell me quick what had happened with the little guy...Whack...whack...You see his situation at home was a big brother that hit him all the time...That's why he goes on these separate, EQ "growth vacations" with no brother...Fusco...Have an older brother?...If so, go kick his rear...then maybe you can be nice to the regulars here even if ya disagree with them...near the stream, having walluped my big bro not too many years ago...loved it.aj
*Thanks aj.,Just wondering. I love to see the end of the job too. That's my favorite part. All done, everyone's happy, all's well that ends well. The faster I can get to that point, the better. Enjoy.Ed.
*Roger,I can always use a good set of horses..........what do you do with this box?Ed. Williams
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The persons that succeeded for us were the ones who initiated the whole process. If someone has the gumption to walk up to the site and introduce himself as available for employment, I am very interested. This is the way I've landed every job in the fishing and construction industries. ( It gives me a good chance to interview my potential boss. Look at his site. A few minutes is all that is needed for a gut feeling. I didn't take all the work offered to me, either). If I have to "sell" my business to get skilled labor, I'll run into a lot of entitlement oriented types, who frequently ask, "What are you paying, scale?"
If you have to bolster crew size, do it slowly, don't hire a ton of labor, quickly, to secure more work. Let the hungry ones come, train them as well as you can, and set the standards very high. Pay them all they are worth. These are the ones that will be training for you later.
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Kris, figuring out which subs are good is easy. Just ask them where their current job is and visit the site during work hours.
That's what your job will look like. If you like what you see, hire them.
Hiring carpenters is a much tougher nut to crack. My best carpenter came directly out of a tool and die shop. If your are only interested in journeymen, then you should weed out those with less than "x" amount of years.
YOu've probably weeded out everyone now and there's no need to ask anything.
If you get an oldtimer that can actually do the job, you'll know. He'll be asking for twice as much money as you want to pay and that's the guy you want. There is no carpenter in the USA that can do the job and work for less.
blue
*Oh, the template for the passage and privacy sets - gotit ! I made them up out of 1/2" poly for Weiser and Schlage sets (I'm doing over my own house in Balwin, but haven't moved up the food chain far enough to put them into new construction yet - I'm on subdisions, not customs). Maybe it's just semantics to you, but my circa 1879 ebony-handled brass try-square (it was my great-grandfather's) is nothing like my Starret combo, and so I speak of them as separate things, which I guess makes it a "who cares" other than to make sure we understand each other. For pure woodworking, the try square is super; the combo, designed for machinists, is a better all-around tool in today's "do it with a machine" world. The investment in a couple of 'real' engineers squares will pay off for setting up stationary machines of all types. I have a 2" chisel, stropped to a mirror polish, that I use in place of a low-angle and yari-nomi (I use it like a thunb-draw relief carving knife). Come to think of it, I use it in place of the Lion trimmer I can't justify too. On oak, I would be using a block plane; on MDF and white-wood, I use the chisel. With my hands, I can't use the Record jack/smooth/jointer planes nor the Stanley low-angle for long (the regular block is okay). And if I don't want cramps all day, I have to be very careful about the handles on all power tools too. Maybe I'm just getting old ?
*Kris, One thought would be to try asking your local radio station (who/how/with what) they soundproofed their studios. It's probably something like Sonex, similar to the neoprene you mention. I found a price for 2' x 2' panels, a box of 4 panels goes for $64 - just $16 per panel. Many options available, such as different sizes, colors, thicknesses, etc.Try these links:http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/http://www.soundproofing.org/Also, Rodale press has a book 'Visual Handbook of Building and Remodeling' by Charlie Wing. This shows pretty clearly how you can frame walls to decrease sound levels, including staggering studs, etc.
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Did we just change subjects ?
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it happens...
*I'm from Philly. We often(always) change lanes without signalling. Sorry. :)
*Kris,If this is a home studio, you don't have to get too high tech. I've got a computer based digital recording studio in my spare bedroom. The only thing that gives me trouble is the A/C. You have to find a way to keep the forced heat and air quiet. Other than that, sound damping baffels hung on the wall (like fabric or ceiling tiles) will absorb any sound bouncing around the room. Also it depends on what kind of stuff they are recording. If it's all vocals, you can section off a corner of the room for a sound proof booth. If it's all keyboards and drum machines.........well you can record that in a train station because there is no way to pick up outside noises.You can find all kinds of books on the subject. Try amazon.com. I bet they have at least 20 on the subject of building home based recording studios.Good luck,Ed. WilliamsP.S. Did you hire any carpenters yet?
*It's not the tools that make the carpenter. The best can do what they have to do with the tools they have available. I have alot of great tools that make the job easier, but I did the same job with lesser quality and number of tools with virtually the same finished result.I lean towards Fusco's approach, you want someone who can work well, not sell themselves.
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ED- We are still interviewing. Ive had good response to the ad but (not suprisingly) have not interviewed any steller candidates.I've had better luck with our ad for subs. Thanks for your input. I've got 20 plus years as a carpenter but am an internet novice....Sorry about the misposted message about the sound studio.
*Kris, Here is what my boss use to do when we had enough workers on the job site kinda funny =)When someone would come to the job site and ask for a job he wouldask that person to swing his hammer in the air and then catch it.After the person caught the hammer he would tell him that he had enough people on his crewdoing that now and he didn't need any more.When I read your post it reminded me of this so I thaught I would postto lighten up someones day.Good help is hard to find I'll go hide in the closet =)
*I recently removed several old tiles from a bathroom in my house. There is mastic and bits of green board still attached to the back of the tile. I like the tiles and want to reuse them. Is there anyway to remove these from the backs of the tiles?
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I'm a construction supervisor for a small design/build firm going through some growing pains. I'm looking for advice from anyone out there who has had experience with interviewing prospective carpenters/ subcontractor. I'm in the process of putting together a list of questions to ask.
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Successful Business Practices...by Doug.
near the stream thanking my lucky stars for giving me such "competition"...
aj