Replies

1. 
   DavidxDoud | Jun 04, 2006 11:54pm | #1

   what is the existing condition and what was/is the original siding? - how big?  how much roof overhang?

   where are you regionally?

    you are keeping the existing siding and exposing it on the inside? how is the detailing around the bottom/top etc?  windows? barns tend to be pretty loose and  just slapping SIP panels over siding might well let drafts/mice/etc in  around the edges -

   around here (midwest),  19th  century barns would have vertical wood siding,  either B&B or shiplapped,  either of which can be renewed -  -

   more info will garner better informed suggestions -

   regards -

    

    

    

   "there's enough for everyone"
1. 
   MaMaShaSha | Jun 05, 2006 04:36am | #3

   TO: DavidxDoud

   Thanks for your reply.

   The barn is circa 1834 and is located in Maine.  It has been inspected by a structural engineer and is considered to be in excellent condition. The beams are mixed hardwood including some chestnut. All the 'gunstock' posts, beams and purlins are hand-hewn; the barnboards are fitted vertically and fastened to the wall purlins. They are also in excellent condition because the exterior had cedar shingles.

   The barn is 40'x52' and  except for the post and beam structure, the exterior is 'finished' like a house, windows, doors, all with trim boards. The plate beams are installed on a new concrete wall foundation, and the floor is the original beams and planks (very sturdy). The roof overhangs about 12"

1. 
   DavidxDoud | Jun 05, 2006 05:45am | #5

   sounds lovely,  and I understand your dilema -

   everything I know about SIPs,  I have read on this board/in the magazine - if you will use the 'advanced search' located at the top of the screen to the left,  you can find a lot of discussions about them - also discussions of applying shingles - there's more to it than you might think -

   my first inclination would be to furr the wall and place foam board between the furring strips,  then sheath and shingle - a couple of inches of foam would make a lot of difference -

   what about insulating the roof/ceiling? any thoughts?

   any thickening of the envelope is gonna cause issues with doors and windows - do you want to keep the existing units?  usually the windows would be pushed out and the jamb extensions applied inside the envelope - do the doors swing in or out?  storm doors? -

   Maine is a rather harsh climate - comfort in a building like yours needs consideration of all the factors - there's a definate point of diminishing returns on the thickness of a foam wall depending on the R-factor/infiltration nature of the openings - and of course the 'lid' is the most important square footage of all -

    "there's enough for everyone"

2. 
   frenchy | Jun 05, 2006 02:16am | #2

   MaMaShaSha, 

        As David said you need to help us with a little more information.. SIP's are a wonderful way to make a barn warm and cozy but they do tend to change the outside appearance unless a great deal of effort is used to  incorporate them properly..

    Off the top of my head I suspect I would strip off the siding,, stack it carefully aside pressure wash the beams and do all the needed work on the foundation flooring etc..  I would then apply the SIP's and nail the old siding to the outside of the SIP's.   Because you will make the barn bigger and most likely lose a few boards in the process of stripping plan on getting a local sawmill to make you replacements. Not a big deal or very expensive and if you carefully mix the new with the old  once you give the barn it's final painting you won't be able to see where the new is.. 

     Check if the barn is straight and square!   There are experts who can quickly, cheaply, and properly square up old barns before you try to apply the SIP's  

1. 
   MaMaShaSha | Jun 05, 2006 04:41am | #4

   TO: frenchy

   Thanks for your reply. Please read my response to David, I meant to place your name on my reply to you both.

   MaMaShaSha

3. 
   frenchy | Jun 15, 2006 07:21am | #6

   MaMaShaSha

    I don't think I agree with David On this one.. while I really respect him, I've built (am building ) with SIP's I don't know if David has...

            If you fill foam in between the timbers as he suggests, you will lose the character on the inside. the visual impact of those large timbers will shrink down to mere boards  while if you place SIP's on the outside as I suggest except for the minor adjustment I spoke about  you will maintain interior character and outside appearance..

1. 
   theslateman | Jun 15, 2006 12:51pm | #7

   The thicker the insulation or panel you apply to the exterior will definately impact the look you get from the overhangs,as well as lessen the usefulness of protecting the new siding.

   5" of mass to the outside will really change the feel of the barn.  Just something from aesthetics to think about.

   I'm in Newburgh near Bangor-are you in southern Me.?

2. 
   DavidxDoud | Jun 15, 2006 03:48pm | #9

   If you fill foam in between the timbers as he suggests...

   perhaps I was unclear - I was suggesting he/she furr horizontally on the outside with foam between the furring and new siding over that - depending on the size/amount/nature of the openings in the wall,  1.5"-2" of foam might be enough - there are people who could analyze the situation scientifically and make that recommendation -

    

    "there's enough for everyone"

1. 
   frenchy | Jun 15, 2006 11:19pm | #10

   David Doud,

      Yes that makes a great deal more sense, enough to take the harsh edge off the temp inside the barn while not really keeping it toasty.  It really does depend on what her goal is.. Heck if she buys a big enough furnace and doesn't mind feeding it she can probably get by as is.. if she wants to keep it warm and toasty without a major dent in her wallet SIP's would be the way to go.  while your suggestion is a decent compromise.

1. 
   DavidxDoud | Jun 16, 2006 02:30am | #11

   it comes down to the fact that heat loss thru blind sidewalls is a relatively small percent of the total - losses thru windows and doors and overhead (ceiling) add up to a great percentage -

   he/she could put 6" SIP on the wall and if the windows are big leaky single glazed and there is no overhead insulation he's not going to notice much difference -

   big picture time and as you mention,  the goal is important-

    

    "there's enough for everyone"

4. 
   MikeSmith | Jun 15, 2006 01:06pm | #8

   mama..... you could post some pics.. which would help..

   seems to me you need to hire either a local design / build firm or a designer...or an architect..

    sips could work.. so could a couple other things

   the problem you have is that the skin over the post/beams now consists of about 1" of sheathing boards & 3/4" of siding

   with sips your thickness will grow to about 4" more than that, which will play  hel* witht eh exterior details

    

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore