My old Paslode just got ripped off and I am wondering about the new funky green hitachi gun. I don’t like the new style paslode and have had excellent luck with my hitachi roofer.
Thanks
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Dustin, I switched to Hitachi framers from paslode about 5 or 6 years ago. I'm completely satisfied and I wish my current framer would get stolen so I could get one of those cool looking new green ones.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I'm eager to help blue! just tell me where your jobsite is and i'll get the job done!______________________________________________
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let's find out where the whole stash is...
Hey Gunner... Ya busy...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
yeah good thinking! diddnt blue just buy a new makita saw?______________________________________________
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we'll sort it out latter...
you can have that saw...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Hulk Tools are cool.
Team Hitachi.
Yeah but right out of the box the shoe got mangled and the lower guard got tossed...besides, it's a stinkin sidewinder! You can have it...but I'll take the gun!
Peace
oh yeah now i remember, what is it that blue does to the shoe (that question is for dez, or blue)______________________________________________
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I'll let Blue tell ya in his own words...but it ain't pretty!
New to the industry, so forgive my ignorance. Why are clipped-heads illegal in some places?
I go with framer T...seems it would be a holding issue. They are not acceptable in many areas.
There's tons of houses framed with clipped head nails with no problems. I would like to see some proof how clipped heads could be a "holding Issue". Where's the proof?????? Until they ban them I'm still using them. I have a Dewalt Framer that only holds clipped head nails and the rest of my guns are Paslode Power Masters that hold both clipped and round head nails but if I only had the Dewalt guns and they change the law I would be screwed, I would have to by all new guns and I also have a Hitachi Coil nailer which is a great gun.Joe Carola
Joe,
Check out this link. http://www.shearwalls.com/isanta.html I don't really think it's an issue unless you are dealing with seismic forces or high wind areas.
your powermaster shoots both because it can take roundrives to shoot round heads but it is normally a clipped head gun.. but cant your dewalt take the roundrives too?______________________________________________
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Joe,
I wasn't trying to come off as some expert on the subject...just figured that the main issue with clipped VS FH would be a holding one. Can't think of any other reason. Just an educated guess. Clipped are not acceptable in many jurisdictions. If they are code compliant in your area, shoot 'em...and be happy!
Peace
Dez,I didn't say or think you were coming off as some expert on the subject. I was just saying that I would like to see the proof of clipped head vs round head and see where they fail that's all.I'm all for doing the right thing but someone has to tell us what the right thing is and I'll do it. It's like with the ACQ garbage no one knows what to use or what to do at first now they do. I brought up nailing the floor joists into the ACQ sills, I think they should be same nails that are ACQ rated that they're telling us to use with decks. I asked and nobody was using those nails but all the architects and building inspectors I talked to said that they should be used. It only makes sense because using a bright common nail into ACQ is no good.Joe Carola
As far as I have read, any fastener in contact with ACQ will deteriorate and fail quickly unless it is approved for ACQ. Anchor bolts, straps, framing on slab, anything. Apparently the lumber is safe for the environment but it eats steel, is that kind of an oxymoron or what?!
This ACQ info from metalera.com is interesting, incl. 2003 IRC requirements. It looks like galvanic action to me, something plumbers are familiar with:
ACQ Pressure-Treated WoodOn January 1, 2004 the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has banned the use of Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA) as a preservative in treated lumber in residential and commercial construction. This was in an effort to reduce the use of arsenic and increase the safety level. Alkaline Copper Quanternany (ACQ) is a non-arsenic wood preservative that has become the treated lumber industry's answer to this EPA requirement.
Metal's Reaction to ACQWhile effective as a wood preservative, ACQ pressure-treated lumber has an increased copper component. These chemicals are 5 times more corrosive to common steel according to American Wood Preservers Association (AWPA) test results.
ACQ Fastener Requirements2003 International Residential Code - Fastener Statement, Section R319.3: “Fasteners for pressure-preservative treated wood shall be hot-dipped galvanized steel, stainless steel, silicon bronze or copper. Exception: One-half inch (12.7 mm) diameter or greater steel bolts.†Electroplated galvanized fasteners are not recognized as being corrosion resistant for exterior applications.
I think I ran across the ratings at one point about the holding power of the nails from Pasload.
Here's a misc page from there nail selection that shows it as a 30degree and a mix of the D head and RHead. I'll see if I can hunt up the tech info tomorrow.
http://www.paslode.com/products/fasteners_catalog/fasteners-by_product.html
Here's the other area that I found the code info, I didn't read it tonight but I think i read it before that said they were OK.
COMPLIANCEPaslode RounDriveTMnails, clip head nails (D-head), concentric full head nails and staples are recognized by National Evaluation Service, Inc. (NES). See National Evaluation Service, Inc. Report Number NER-272 at http://www.nateval.org for allowable values and/or conditions of use concerning material presented in this document. All NES evaluation reports are subject to re-examination, revisions, and possible closing. For a listing of current evaluation reports consult the NES website at http://www.nateval.org. NES evaluation reports advise of compliance to model codes supported by BOCA, ICBO, SBCCI and ICC.Paslode RounDriveTMnails, clip head nails (D-head), concentric full head nails and staples are ICBO ES recognized per ER-2403. See ICBO Evaluation Services, Inc., Evaluation Report No. 2403 for allowable values and/or conditions of use concerning material or services presented in this document.Paslode RounDriveTMnails, clip head nails (D-head), concentric full head nails and staples are accepted by the City of Los Angeles per Research Report RR 23633, subject to the conditions of that report.
Here's one other Item, Does Paslode offer a full head nail?
Answer
Yes, Paslode© manufactures coil nails which are full round head nails and Roundrive¯ strip nails that are full offset head nails. Paslode's© Patented Roundrive¯ fasteners are designed to work with our 30 Degree framing tools, both the Pneumatic 30 Degree framing tool and Paslode¯ Cordless 30 Degree tool.
Now I don't know if the hitachi will take these nails? 30 degree?
I use the full round head nails in my guns also but not my Dewalt. The lumber yard that I'm getting materials from only has full round head nails for the Paslode and the guy who I deal with said that that's all they stock and Paslode stopped making clipped head which I don't think is true but Senco still has the clipped head and they also have a generic brand that are clipped head.The last order I sent in I ordered all clipped head nails but the guy who I deal with wasn't in that day and I told the guy to send me the clipped head Senco nails and he didn't. The only reason why I even care about the clipped head is because of the Dewalt gun because that gun is a good gun and it's only 2 years old and I don't want to through it on the shelf becasue they don't make nails for it so it's just easier to order all clipped head nails. If I would've known that they might ban clipped head nails I would've never had bought the gun.If they tell us we can't use clipped head nails we wont use them. Then all the manufactures should stop making them.Joe Carola
Edited 1/22/2005 8:02 am ET by Framer
What model is the Dewalt gun?
I'll check tomorrow but when they first came out there was only two one for just clipped head nails with the same angle as my Paslode and the other one was just for full round head I think was 22° angle. I've put the round head in and it jambs the gun and bends the nails.Joe Carola
I'm looking at the dewalt stuff and it shows a 31 degree for both of the clip head nailers. I would of thought that the pasload rh at 30 degree would have worked but sounds like you know for sure.
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail_listing.asp?categoryID=878
Tool detail listing
Joe,
How is that DeWalt holding up? We've been through 2 of the round head (22°). They are just garbage.
About two weeks ago our foreman dropped off 3 of the new "funky green" hitachi framing guns to our leadmen. Our crew finally got ours this week. This thing is frickin awesome. Its way smaller and lighter than the silver hitachis but seems to have equal power. It has a switch near the trigger that changes it from single shot to rapid fire. While in rapid fire mode, it shoots the nails way faster than the old guns.
The "green hornet" (this is what our crew has been calling it) has been starting some fights in my crew. Once these middle-aged journeymen get their hands on the green hornet, they dont want to let it go----Like the little kid who wont share his new toy.
Although way cooler than the silver hitachis, the green hornet seems alot more fragile. It has alot more plastic parts that might damage easier.
Because the gun is way smaller, there is alot less room for your hand in between the trigger and the magazine. So for you big Sasquatches with big banana hands---Stick to older hitachis.
thanks for the revie fuzzy. I have small hands...and y'all know what that means....
I'm getting a new Green Hornet!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
but i diddnt steal your old silver bananna hander yet?!______________________________________________
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....small gloves????"knowledge without experience is just information." Mark Twain
Are the green hornets clipped head? or did they come out with a full round head model? I am waffling on a max or a hitachi (if I can get it round head)
Jeff
originally clipped, but now you are making me waffle over the answer.
Whats bad about clipped?
it's not an issue of bad but code...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
clipped isnt compliant?
some places...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Clipped head nails aren't even available anymore in Western NY. The thing that bums me out is that I just posted a few weeks ago about the Paslode trade-in and how I love my old school gun. I do punch out work and I usually am tied up at roll up time and one of the two asst. never loaded the gun on my truck. There were only about 8 guys that were in and out of the unit it was in but of course they all deny it. It also sucks that my boss won't cover the loss. On a crew of 30 guys only one other uses his own saw, I use everything but a generator and compressor. After 2 years of service and actually the cost of one set of equipment, I get screwed.
Pissed off in Rochester,
Dustin
that is garbage! cant believe he wouldnt cover it..______________________________________________
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time to return the favor...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I believe clipped is no good in NJ, and that makes it no good for me....
Not true. I'm in New Jersey and I use them all the time until they change the code I'm still using them. Paslode stopped making clipped but as far as the code in Jersey It's still code.Joe Carola
clipped head
I grabbed a hitachi NR83A (22 degree, full head) off ebay for $128. The local Hitachi dealer completely rebuilt the gun that someone dropped off and never picked up. Everyone I've ever know says the NR83A's are bullet proof, they just don't ever die. A framer up in NH had his pair atleast 10 years before the driver blade broke. If you go new, I think I would spend the extra $40 and get the NC90, it has the bump vs. rapid switch and the nails also slide in like a angle finish nailer which is a much better design.
I was starting to fall in love with the MAX 890 super framer, but I will look at the hitachi gun
The wood nailed with 'clipped nails' evidently pulls free....have never got a real answer,myself. It's always "we can't use them on shear walls or because of hurricanes". Has someone actually done a test where clipped nails failed? Just wondering.
We use the '83s,good guns.The magazines being their weak spot,if a little bent they become had to feed or the racks ride up on each other causing no-shootems. The newer[lawyer proof] guns have the nose piece blocked so you can't shoot a nail in wood and hang the gun. Then there's the plastic from the nails hitting you in the face,down your shoes,etc.
I didn't do it....the buck does NOT stop here.
We solve our local-code-clipped-head issue this way.
Turn the air way down, drive 'em short, then unholster the whacker and clinch 'em over. ;-)
the new 83's can switch on the fly from bounce to sequential as well______________________________________________
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question we really want to know is can we put the roundrives into the cool new Hitachi?
i think you can, but there are two different clipped head nail angles, the roundrives only come in one og those angles (and therfore fit in only one of those magazines) and i dont know whitch one (and wether that angle of nail fits into the nr90ad______________________________________________
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I dont know if it helps or hurts, but it looks like the 90 has a steeper angle then the 83 from the pics.
edit I just pulled up the powermaster, and it looks like that angle.
Edited 1/20/2005 10:17 pm ET by zendo
My tool rep told me that the Paslode roundheads fit the new Hitachi gun. I didn't physically witness the nails going into the gun, though.
Cool!
Thanks for the info.
-zen
Are you talking about this gun?http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002X7VMU.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpgJoe Carola
that is the gun in question and it only shoots clipped, they do not have a RH model yet______________________________________________
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The Paslode RH nails will still work in that gun though, won't they?
oh yeah the roundrives, i forgot about those. Im not sure, i think there are two different common angles of magazines for clipped head nailers (28deg and 34deg?) but im restriccted to RH and you can find any clipped head nailers around here so im not sure, anyone wanna clear this up?______________________________________________
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Skyecore,I'm in CA where clipped nails are forbidden, and the Paslode Roundrives are accepted. They have the same collation angle as the clipped, about 31?. The orange box even carries them.Bill
Please forgive my ignorance, but does that mean you can fit these Roundrives in a clipped gun? Also whats RH?
yes. RH = roundhead . The Paslode will shoot clipped or roundheads.
I didn't do it....the buck does NOT stop here.
My word, it certainly is tarted up from the old 83A that had no features at all, no racing stripes, and a rather plain paint job.
I sold my old 83A and got a Super Max. We need RH out here. Something about quakes. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
no racing stripes?! what about cooling fins? did they have cooling fins??______________________________________________
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I think it might have had cooling fins. To me it said Ray Gun! Set phasers on Obliterate! Ming will never know what hit him! Genuine plasma cannon.
Of course, best take a look at their impact driver. Similar color scheme.
Who sez nailers gotta be the same boring color?
My Bosch Impactor (Now, doesn't that sound like an action figure?) comes in blue and red - like a baboon in heat.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
yeah, seems like dewalt got people drooling early on because their tools looked "fast" since they were porcsha yellow and all the others are fighting to look just as mean. Too bad that crap sells tools more than function, people complain about all the old standbys going to sh_t and i think thats way; R&D money is going into researching gel handles and glow in the dark paint rather than metal gear boxes etc..hopefully it will soon be in style for stuff to look boring and all will be well again______________________________________________
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If it makes you look sexy, that's a start. Also nice if it works and works. Now, add a feature set that users need. The old 83A was falling behind on that front.
I thought the new Bosch recip with rafter hook had a good idea. I like being able to hang the tools. The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
yeah rafter hooks are one of those innovations that make wonder how i got along before it was there..yeah, looking sexy is important. But joking aside i cant wait to hear more about that that new hitachi framer, I'm a little skeptical just because of all of the wacky design but given hitachi's track record i assume that the new gun will be a winner______________________________________________
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Get the Hitachi NV83A2 coil framer with adjustable depth of drive. That is a great gun.
A friend of mine said that that plastic Hitachi with the funky looks was nice, but he was concerned that it wouldn't last.
I got one of those and they are a really good reliable gun.