I’m working with an old widow woman who has her house on the market. They built it 27 years ago and now it’s too big for her. Nice house, lots of character, well maintained, wish I had the money. A prospective buyer had it inspected, came back with an eleven page typed report, killed the deal. Got a couple of specific questions I need help on. (Let’s not start discussing inspectors, please. But, one of his comments was that the oven temp was actually 360 when set to 350).
He dinged her because there were no weep holes in the brick above windows and doors. Not sure I have ever seen weep holes above doors.
He commented that the weep holes were for proper ventilation. I thought they were to allow moisture to… ah, well, whats the word…weep out!
“No main disconnect was noted in the main service panel. (There are more than six breakers installed in the main service panel).” Actually there are seven, but I don’t understand this item.
“No sur-lock has been used on the aluminum wire that is attached to the breakers in the main service panel.” BTW the house is wired in copper except for this area. I am not an electrician and have not run across aluminum wire before. I know it has cold-flow problems. What is sur-lock?
Replies
The inspector has a bug up his
The potential buyers are looking for a way out or a bargaining chip and not worth working with. No house is perfect but this report reads like "Piffin has brown hair and he is over fifty years old" in such a way as to make it sound like a liability. If I were a candidate for marriage to a nineteen year old girl who wanted a young stud with blonde hair, that might be true. Call an electrician to check it out and confirm in writing and/or fix but as to the oven temp, somebody needs to get a life. Thermostats can vary three or four percent real easy, just like speedometeres on cars.
Excellence is its own reward!
"Piffin has brown hair and he is over fifty years old"
You don't expect us to believe your hair is still brown, do you ???
Will be interesting to see what Bob Walker has to contribute to this thread. Based on what was presented, I wonder if it was a newbie home inspector without much experience.A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.
I would never buy a house if the oven thermostat was off.
A defect like that may upset the speed of rotation of the earth.
I am no Bob Walker, but I have been in the inspection business for well over ten years. Bob if you are out there how about jumping in.
From what you have stated in sure sounds as if they buyers simply did not want the house or we are not getting the full story. Often the Home Inspector gets blamed for other issues that are completely beyond his/her control.
Weep holes are important, as I am sure you know. In some areas of the country they may be more important than others. Not having seen the house, or knowing where you are located, I cannot specifically address his comments regarding weeps, however, it certainly is a installation detail that helps dry out the walls should water get behind the brick veneer. The presence of weeps or the lack of weeps may also indicate proper flashing or the lack of flashing, which is an important detail to a rain screen system.
Testing oven temperatures is not part of my practice and I certainly agree that a few degrees here or there are typical with any oven and unless the inspector has his thermometer calibrated who knows who is right, the oven of the testers thermometer.
SurLock is an anti-oxidant paste that is applied to the braided aluminum service conductors to prevent corrosion.
Respectfully,
Charles
One by one:
First point: in the quoted material, the HI is just reporting, not offering opinions as to how significant the issues are.
Some inspectors won't offer any opinions of "degree" -"If it's not right- it's not right and should be fixed. I don't want to assume the liability of differentiating between problems."
Personally, I disagree with that approach and think it is part of the inspector's job to offer opinions as to how significant a "defect" is. I also try, however, to get my customer to understand that many construction issues involve opinions and that for many areas there can be different opinions, all of which are reasonable. (Folks, try to keep that in mind when you come in after the HI - and try to keep in mind that we are looking at the whole darn house in a limited time frame, and can't open much stuff up or move stuff before you say "Aww, the home inspector should have seen that!")
(Also keep in mind that an HI is a visual inspection only, we can't start digging into walls or opening them up to find hidden moisture problems as part of a "standard" inspection and without the owner's consent.)
Also, be careful in slamming the inspector based on what's presented here - we don't know if he made this stuff sound like the end of the world or minimal. It isn't uncommon for clients to exaggerate (or mis-state) what the HI said to try to get out of a house that they have changed their mind on for some other reason.
But, one of his comments was that the oven temp was actually 360 when set to 350).
He (probably) needs to get a life on this one. Oven temps range throughout the cooking cycle, and I suspect that 360 would be within the normal range. (I don't know, and as a home inspector and sometimes baker, I don't care. The industry standards I'm familiar with specifically exclude oven temps. There might be some states that require it be checked. I think Texas might one.)
He dinged her because there were no weep holes in the brick above windows and doors. Not sure I have ever seen weep holes above doors.
The Brick Institute of America (BIA) recommends them above all openings.
The is a wide range of opinion about the necessity of weep holes. They are required by most, if not all codes, though.
He commented that the weep holes were for proper ventilation. I thought they were to allow moisture to... ah, well, whats the word...weep out!
That's nitpicking, in my opinion, an activity to be discouraged by everyone involved in home inspections!
The BIA definition: "WEEP HOLES: Openings placed in mortar joints of facing material at the level of flashing, to permit the escape of moisture."
Personally, I point out lack of weeps on recent construction because construction standards (particularly on flashing) have gone down the tubes (present company excepted, of course!) and weep holes have become much more important. (I regularly see very old brick veneer homes without weeps and without problems - I have seen newer homes without weeps and major moisture problems.)
I tell my client what I see, and tell them if I don't see anything, the odds are there aren't moisture problems but that I can't guarantee it. (It can be particularly revealing to check the tops of rim joists (aka rim bands, etc.) below wall penetrations and around the bottoms of those penetrations where there are no weeps.)
Where there are moisture problems because of the lack of weeps, the solution is tearing the wall down, fixing whatever is rotted out, and rebuilding the wall. No, you can't just drill some holes. That's what makes lack of weeps a potential biggie.
"No main disconnect was noted in the main service panel. (There are more than six breakers installed in the main service panel)." Actually there are seven, but I don't understand this item.
The NEC requires that there be no more than 6 disconnects to turn off all circuits in a building. It used to say "No more than 6 hand motions."
Some electricians interpreted that as meaning that if you could get, say, 6 breakers sweeping with the edge of your hand, you could have up to 36 breakers; my understanding was that the language was changed to negate this interpretation.
In my area it is very rare to see a 27 year old house without a main disconnect (but the NEC does allow variations and there are regional practices.) Check to see if there is a main disconnect at or near the meter (outside or inside). (That would raise another issue as to whether the "main panel" - which would now be deemed to be a sub-panel- is wired correctly, with separated grounds and neutrals - an issue that is date dependant - that rule came into being about 1990 - so we won't go there!)
"No sur-lock has been used on the aluminum wire that is attached to the breakers in the main service panel." BTW the house is wired in copper except for this area. I am not an electrician and have not run across aluminum wire before. I know it has cold-flow problems. What is sur-lock?
I suspect he is referring to anti-oxidant, which manufacturers recommend be used on stranded aluminum wire connections. In my area it is not a requirement, just a manufacturers' recommendation; it might be required in some areas. ( I did a google for "sur-lock' and didn't find it used in an electrical sense, but I didn't dig too deeply. There is a manufacturer of hog pens which trumpets it "sur-lock" system, but I doubt if he was thinking of that{G})
I rarely see problems because of missing anti-ox. If there are no visible signs of overheating (melted insulation; discolored, over-heated metal; or significant corrosion) I tell my clients that if they have an electrician in doing some other work, it wouldn't hurt to have it added.
If I see any such signs, I may well turn off the circuit and I recommend immediate repair.
Bottom line, based on the limited info available here, in my opinion, the only potential biggie is the weep hole issue; even if the others are "important" they aren't too expensive to deal with, and I've never seen the sense of walking away from a sale (either as buyer or seller) for penny ante stuff.
Keep in mind that there is much about this situation we don't know which may effect opinions.
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Thanks much for the very informative response. The purpose of my original message was not to jump on the HI, but rather to ask for clarifications. I have a full copy of the report, as the HO has asked me to look through it and give her a line-item cost to fix everything, then we will sit down and see what is cost effective, etc. This HI did not offer any suggesstions, and did not make any comments as to the seriousness of the items.
Weep holes: this house has what I would say are the standard number of weep holes, just none over doors or windows, so I was asking if anyone normally puts them there. The part about ventilation was a bit of a stab at the HI, but also to educate me.
My house is in the same neighborhood and is only 10 yrs old. We have a main breaker panel adjacent to the meter, but other than the handful of breakers there is no disconnect. Same for her house. I'll advise her pretty much what you said about the sur-lock.
I had a similar situation this past summer. There were a lot of little things that needed fixing. All of them were valid and were fixed. The roof was not little so the owner negotiated that with the buyer and the home was sold. You may want to mention to your customer that negotiating with the buyer is sometimes a good way to avoid large cash payouts during the home selling process.
As for the oven temp. What if the over temp is being caused by a faulty thermostat. Suppose one day it doesn't stop heating up and the house burns down? I don't think the HI was wrong to report it, he was just being cautious.
She tried to negotiate...dropped the price $18k, now it's $278,000...didn't make any difference. Nice thought on the t-stat, but this is the same HI who noted in the plumbing section that the toilet seat in the master bath is loose.
the toilet seat in the master bath is loose.
Now THERE'S a WEEPHOLE for ya!
I don't see the need for the weepholes over opennings in most situations. Absolutely agree they are needed and too aften neglected in new construction but most brick residences I have seen in my life were single story with large roof overhangs. The only time water will hit the brick up there is when the HO washes the house down with a hose.
If this is a two story colonial, ytou might need a weep there..
Excellence is its own reward!
sounds lie all that could be fixed for less than $18K!
If that's the tightest inspection she'll get...the guy may have done her a favor. Fix what you can yourself....call in an electrician...make the house inspection proof.
Keep a copy for the "faulty" inspection along with reciepts on the repairs.....sell it for the asking. She's ahead of the game if dropping $18K was an option.
No biggie...like Bob said....the inspection should just lost the problems...not classify them. We had tons of little stuff listed when we bought this old house. Had the sellers fix what I didn't wanna touch.....we dropped the price a hair for the rest that I was gonna fix myself....and we've been living with a good portion of what was on his list ever since!
Sounds like the buyers used that report as a bargaining tool to get off the hook. They wouldn't found another way if the report didn't help them.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
You're right, the inspection was the excuse they needed. We (the HO and I) are going through fixing things that are serious, ignoring things that are anal, and trying to apply a cost effective decision to most of them.
I told myself that I wasn't going to bash the inspector, but I changed my mind. Here's two more things that were unnecessary. The man used to restore cars for a hobby...mostly Model A's, a 64 1/2 Mustang, a MG-TC, that kind of stuff...trophies all over the place. The garage was nicely built with a shop area in the back, had a window unit a/c and a suspended gas heater. Inspector writes them up because they don't work. Lady is upset, says they weren't that old and they were working when the old man last used them. I turn on the a/c, sure enough nothing. So I turn the knob to fan only...works great. Apparently when it's 45 degrees in the shop the a/c thermostat work bring on the compressor. I look at the gas heater...the gas valve is turned off. He also said that he couldn't determine if there was mold inside the a/c ducts because he couldn't see inside them. And two of the window screens on the greenhouse are torn...need to be replaced.
Edited 1/16/2003 9:42:17 PM ET by ELCID72
It's always a tough call on little stuff - call out the torn screens and people jump on you for nit-picking. don't call 'em out and the buyer wants you to buy a new set!
Did he really say they didn't work and that they weren't operated? We don't run a/cs in cold weather, and we generally don't turn on gas (or elec circuits) which have been turned off because we don't know why they were turned off.
Every home inspector with a few years in can tell you horror stories about turning stuff on and getting burned (literally or figuratively. I generally light pilot lights that are out, but I've been literally burned a few times and am pretty careful.)
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
A friend of mine is an RE agent and was looking at a house for herself. Anyway the house had been vacant for about 15 months, but the utilities had stayed on.
She went to check the gas stove, light the burner and then could not get it to shut off. She had to shut off the main gas supply.
Bill, the fun ones are where you're authorized to turn the water on, but it turns out there's a major leak somewhere - usually at the fartherst location from the shut off which you first discover by hearing the water pouring out from the light fixture below that bathroom!._______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
O.K. now you've done it. You've gone and bashed a HI..guy. Yep I think he was HI when he did this inspection. My advice at this point would be to hire a new home inspector. One recommended by more than just one reputable Realtor or Mortgage broker in you area. Get your own HI done and the challenge the original HI to a little court battle. Odds are it will never even go to arbitration. Best of luck to you and the home owner.
P.S. any repairs that you completed as a result of the original HI which are not found required in the new HI might be recoverable as charge backs to the original HI person. I doubt you'll get anything but it might be enough to get the jerk out of the business.
Get your own HI done and the challenge the original HI to a little court battle. Odds are it will never even go to arbitration. Best of luck to you and the home owner.
I guess No One is a lawyer -we all know they're the ones who cause all of those court cases, right?
And, based on what has been posted, there's not much, if any, of claim there. The dispute is, at most, over a couple of minor items. Most of it seems to to have been accurately reported.
But heck, sue the baztard.
No One, will you pay the HI's bills if he wins?
Will you pay my bills when some bozo tries to sue me for something that I accurately reported?
How about the for the threatened suit when the heating guy found a cracked heat exchanger when he was installing A/C (on a unit that was never designed for it in the first place, but that's another issue.)
"The home inspector should have seen it."
Forget that it was at the top of the heat exchanger and was only visible when the casing was cut apart for the coil. Forget that I explain to my client the inspection is limited to what I can see at the time of the inspection, and that he reads the same thing in the contract.
Sue the baztard, right?
And forget the fact the the seller and the home inspector don't have any kind of contractual relationship.
Let's go out there and make mountains out of molehills!_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Sorry 'no one' but what you're proposing is really counter-productive and unnecessarily confrontational. Home inspections, especially the reporting phase, and like real estate appraisals and baseball umpires...very subjective. I calls 'em like I sees 'em. In this case the HI reported on just about every little thing that he found. And with a few exceptions, he was just stating the facts.
Does the builder/seller have any comeback at all if the Home Inspector has made a major error of fact that wrongly disqualifies the sale?IanDG
Does the builder/seller have any comeback at all if the Home Inspector has made a major error of fact that wrongly disqualifies the sale?
What do you mean by "disqualifies" the sale? That's not what we do. We inform our clients of the condition oif the house. The client makes decsions based on that.
There might be a legal cause of action by the seller in an aggregious case, but none have been reported as having been tried._______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Bob,OK, you don't like "disqualifies" -- let's take a hypothetical case.An HI goes to inspect a new brick-built house and finds efflorescence on the exterior brickwork (a fairly common problem with new brickwork, in most cases aesthetic only and short-lived, as I'm sure you'll agree)However, based on this and without further exploration, the HI reports that the brickwork has serious damp-penetration problems. The prospective purchasers returns to their realtor and report that they don't want the house -- it has serious problems with rising damp. The realtor then takes the house off their listings.Does the builder/seller have any legal right to recompense? -- or is it just one of the risks of the trade? IanDG
Ian
I can't comment on the specific case; efflorescence on new brick work can be typical, as you say, or can indicate serious problems. It depends on the amount, the location, and other details. (FWIW, in my area on new construction, effloresence is more often than not associated with moisture problems - inadequate flashing, lack of weep holes, mortar filling the intended cavity behind the brick, lack of kick out on sidewall flashing, etc.)
But to get to your question, take the case where there is no question, the HI misunderstands something he or she sees, or blows some totally minor thing out of all proportion and the deal goes sour.
The seller might have a cause of action known as "tortious interference" but that can be tough to prove:
"Tortious Interference With Contract: Elements of ProofTortious interference with contract claims require proof of the following:
The existence of a contract subject to interference;AND
An act of interference that was willful and intentional;AND
Proximate cause;AND
Actual damages or loss. "
http://www.criderlaw.com/faq_coml_tortious.html
The tough parts are the willful and intentional and the amount of damages (and lost profits on a sale are not included in calculations of damages)
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Bob,"in my area on new construction, effloresence is more often than not associated with moisture problems - inadequate flashing, lack of weep holes, mortar filling the intended cavity behind the brick, lack of kick out on sidewall flashing, etc."Most new houses in UK are of brick construction and efflorescence is common, mainly due to the brickwork under construction being rained on and exacerbated where there is foam cavity fill and the wall can only dry to the outside.We always used a washed sand and a plasticiser which minimised it --- however --- IYO, could the HI report be the subject of a libel case?
IanDG
IYO, could the HI report be the subject of a libel case?
Well, the brick itself ptobably wouldn't have standing to bring a suit.
The mason or the GC? I suppose it would depend on what the inspector said, but I suspect it would be a pretty tough case_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Bob:
I remember us having a discussion about kick out flashings where the eve edge of a roof terminates at at a wall. Do you have any picks of that? I'm trying to explain it to someone, but you know how it is, a picture is worth a 1000 words...
Thanks,
Matt
Matt,
The hardieplank website has a picture of that detail in their installation page.
ELCID72, Thank You, you were the only one that caught on to what I was saying. Perhaps I should have just said "Shut up and fix it" instead.
ELCID72, Thank You, you were the only one that caught on to what I was saying. Perhaps I should have just said "Shut up and fix it" instead.
Huh? This what you said:
Get your own HI done and the challenge the original HI to a little court battle. Odds are it will never even go to arbitration. Best of luck to you and the home owner.
P.S. any repairs that you completed as a result of the original HI which are not found required in the new HI might be recoverable as charge backs to the original HI person. I doubt you'll get anything but it might be enough to get the jerk out of the business.
Not too tough to catch onto. _______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
"My advice at this point would be to hire a new home inspector. One recommended by more than just one reputable Realtor or Mortgage broker in you area."
In my area, at least, buyers usually get their home inspectors through a recommendation from their realtor. A few more inspections like this one, it seems to me, and this guy won't be getting many recommendations.
I'm reminded of the time we were leaving Illinois in 1987 and advertised our '67 Chevy Nova in the paper for $100. The car hadn't been cleaned in 10 years, the back floor was rusted out and had a plank covering the hole, and the day before we went to sell it, the neighbor's friend backed into the driver's side door so it wouldn't open. The first caller who came to have a look slid in from the passenger side, turned the key, and the engine didn't start. Without missing a beat, he said, "I'll take it!"
So it all depends what market you're in. Here in Seattle, there'd be a dozen eager buyers in line behind the first couple and the house would probably sell for more than the asking price (yes, even now!)
I say fix the major stuff, but leave the minor stuff.
If that's the tightest inspection she'll get...the guy may have done her a favor. Fix what you can yourself....call in an electrician...make the house inspection proof.
Round here, if the inspector charges $400.00, and cannot find anything major, he will look until he figures he has $400.00 worth....wants to justify his fee. Leave him something to chew on...maybe he wont find other stuff.
Round here, if the inspector charges $400.00, and cannot find anything major, he will look until he figures he has $400.00 worth....wants to justify his fee.
FWIW, I've spoken with hundreds of HIs in person and on HI forums, and read thousands of comments by HI's about all aspects of the business. I've never heard that idea put forward.
I'm not saying there aren't some that might do it, but it is not a common practice.
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
only 11 pages ? does not sound like his report was very complet.
I got 63 pages plus the pictures . mine decribed every thing the good bad and the ugle.
There are several checklist type reports which run about 10-11 pages. Short, but supriising how much info can be packed into those pages, although they don'tr discuss the problems, just list 'em.
At 63 plus pics it sounds like ytou got one of the computer generated, or perhaps an individually produced narrative type
There are arguments in favor and against both._______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
IMO,
one that has 63 pages should be prefaced with a summary report of two or three pages that can be scanned quickly, with items of concern pointed out so as not to be lost in the detail..
Excellence is its own reward!
I thought I had one main disconnect while working on my electrical panel. When the inspector was checking my work he told me I had 4 disconnects. So here I was working with the 'main' off when and thinking the whole panel was safe! The 240v were all connected directly. All of the 120s were after a 240 'main'.
He told me this type of panel was not allowed by code now. If I wanted to upgrade I would have to replace it with one with that had only one main disconnect. I wonder if that is what the HI is referring to.
Spend $10 and get a current detector pen. Then get in the habit of sticking it in any outlet or holding up to the sides of any wires you will be working on. Much nicer way to find out that, surprise the power isn't off. Glad you didn't get zapped.
Sometimes replacing the existing box can be quite expensive. An electrician may know a cheaper way to add a main disconnect. Such as putting in a disconnect box ahead of the current box, or adding a box and wiring the existing box as a subpanel.
Best of luck.
Bill
Got one of those testers and use it all the time. But I was adding a sub panel so I was working on the main. I never even heard of panels having more than one main disconnect. Not a big deal because I am extra careful working at the panel anyway and I was just adding a 50 amp breaker. But needless to say I was surprised when he told me that.
I figured you must know your stuff pretty well if you worked on a hot circuit w/o a zap, when you didn't know it was hot.
Been amazed how many people see you using a test pen and are amazed such a thing exists. My favorite electrical tool. Works great for trouble shooting christmas lights too.
Spend $10 and get a current detector pen. Then get in the habit of sticking it in any outlet or holding up to the sides of any wires you will be working on. Much nicer way to find out that, surprise the power isn't off.
Better be sure your health ins premium is paid up and you're current with your burial plot insurance. They will NOT protect you against all electrical hazards._______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
>>Spend $10 and get a current detector pen. Then get in the habit of sticking it in any outlet or holding up to the sides of any wires you will be working on. Much nicer way to find out that, surprise the power isn't off.
Better be sure your health ins premium is paid up and you're current with your burial plot insurance. They will NOT protect you against all electrical hazards.<<
You have a point. Right? Nothing will protect you against all hazards. This simply verifies there is or is not current flowing to a particular area. It doesn't protect you from some dingbat turning a breaker back on to make toast while you're working. Or a random meteor strike for that matter. Just exactly what Specific danger are you alluding to here?
He told me this type of panel was not allowed by code now. If I wanted to upgrade I would have to replace it with one with that had only one main disconnect.
FWIW, Codes have local variations, but under the NEC (the "model" code) it is permissible - it allows up to 6 disconects._______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
every city is different.
are you an electrician?
HWIW this house is 27 years old. By my count that means 9 iterations of the NEC. I think that most areas of the country have "grandfather" clauses for situations like this. Unless there is a major renovations, most areas do not require that a home be brought up to current code standards. Same thing holds true in commercial buildings for both electric and plumbing, unless something is deemed a public safety and welfare issue.
Think about it. If you have to upgrade your electric service every three years to stay compliant with code changes, nothing would ever get "sold". Thus the grandfather clauses really means if it was safe when it was installed and passed the inspection... it should be safe now.
Dave
that wasn't my point. IF I upgraded mine I would have to convert it. My point was maybe the HI couldn't figure it out or understand it. Mine happened to be labeled Main (it wasn't at the top by itself) and it shuts off all of lower breakers. The top four are on their own.
Anyway, I doubt this lady needs to upgrade hers or repair it. And maybe the HI was looking at a sub-panel like someone else suggested.
However, I have read and heard that Aluminum wires should be checked so maybe while the electrician checks those he can explain this panel.
every city is different. Exactly, I noted that. OTOH, most follow the NEC fairly closely
are you an electrician? Nope, just a home inspector generalist. I know a tad about a bunch of things, but, as a matter of law, don't know as much as any licensed specialist._______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Nope, just a home inspector generalist.
I'm sorry Bob, I should have figured out what you do from this thread. I was in the middle of roasting coffee beans and was making a quick reply before I burned em.
Steve
Man, now I'm feeling quilty! An overroasted bean is a terrible thing to waste {G}
_______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Hey Bob,
Couldnt help come in here....lol. No not to bash HI.
I do how ever think that HI should inform in big letters on the first page of their reports that what theyre writing up is exactly as you describe....a report that states all the nit picky stuff....not necessarily to scare people because it really does..specially to new home buyers. With my wife a real estate broker for over 15 years full time I see far too many deals get killed because of stupid comments which add up to a book of negative nothings. You speak about HI commenting. I couldnt agree more. The comments should also contain the positive things and an explanation to help the potential home buyer, not just scare them.
By the way Bob, do you know who I had inspect my circa 1680 house? Right..no one! lol... Just me. I figure it needs "everything" and the inspector would need to spend the entire weekend here.
MAtter of fact the seller told me that one buyer that had a HI here about six months ago. The HI tells the customer he wouldnt walk in the house because it was so lopsided he didnt feel safe. This wasnt " just " a HI either.This was an engineer that does HI and theyre supposed to know even more then you guys.
Just like a lot of people in any trade, there are a whole lotta ego manical a-holes. The issue with HI is that all they do is tell you bad news so...... A good HI IMO should also offer the positive sides. Are they called Home Inspectors or Home Rejectors cause thats what a whole lot of them do. An inspection should include the good sides as well.
Thats just my lowly opinion..but whatta I know?
Be Another Bozo On The Bus,
Namaste
Andy Bozo "Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
We almost purchased an older house and had a very good inspector. He rated everything w/ a symbol as to seriousness. Plus noted the good things.
-Structural or serious saftey issues got an X
-Things that should probably get fixed but weren't real serious a /
-Things you may consider adding or doing to make the house better a O
-And good things you should notice got a *
As I remember it some exposed taped wire joints in the garage got an X.
The nice gas furnace got an *. The fact that it only appeared to be connected to the existing ductwork got a /.
The upgraded electrical service got a * The ungrounded outlets a /. And so on. Cracked cover plates an O. But there were also several suggestions on better ways to vent the dryer, etc..
Anyone I know that's buying a house I refer them to him. All inspections should be this good.
In a nutshell the inspector is always the bad guy. Almost always going to upset someone. If you fail to report a cracked switchplate cover someone screams, if you do report it, you are accused of nitpicking.
What is a inspector to do if a cracked heat exchanger is seen? If you turn the furnance off you might be liable for frozen pipes, if you leave it on and someone is hurt or killed.......... (back when I inspected I always left several notes in promanient places telling the occupants to move out till it was repaired).
A good real estate agent should understand that there can be both BIG issues and very minor issues brought up in a report. They should help homebuyers understand the report. Sometimes what the inspector feels is an important issue is not to the prospective homebuyer. ( a missing outlet cover might not be a big deal to an adult only household, but throw in a 2 yearold and everything changes).
As far as saying positive things about the home that is really not the HIs job, the seller and the RE agent have already done that. Most people assume the house must be more or less perfect because nothing was on the home disclocure. the HIs job is to call attention to all defienctys.
As far as sueing an HI because a home sale didn't go thru, good luck. The home inspector didn't kill the sale the house did.
As far as finding a good inspector , DON'T use the one recommended by a RE agent , ask friends and look for good credientals (American Society of Home Inspectors)
Tim,
As far as not asking a real estate agent to recommend a HI is a bit off IMO. My wifes been selling RE for over 15 years and most all of her customers come from referals as do mine in renovations. The reason she gets referals and has a succesful RE business is because she always leads her customers in the right direction so I dont get your advice there.
If my wife has a customer and they don't buy "that" house she'll find them another one. If they do buy a house full of problems and "she" recommended a bum HI do you really think they will ever use her again or refer her to family and friends?
also..who says a HI should only speak of the problems? Where does it say that? An inspector "inspects" IMO. Its their expertise the buyer is looking for, bad "and" good.....but then again whatta I Know?
PS...read Billy's post a few post prior to this one.
BE well
Namaste'
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 1/17/2003 7:49:07 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
So a buyer gets a bum inspector , but really respects their RE agent. They use the agent again but don't use that HI again.
I do not know your wife , she is possibly a excellent honest agent . I have dealt with many that are not 100% honest. They are the type that love inspectors that call out wine stains in the carpet, but don't open up electric panels.
Lets face it , A REagents job is to sell houses, anything that makes the sale more difficult or impossible will not help them. Also remember that the HI is responsible for their report , not the RE agent. Maybe it would be best for all parties if RE agents did not make any recomendations.. Hey , would you take a car you wanted to buy to the mechanic that the used car lot recommended ?
TimH (And Andy)
As far as saying positive things about the home that is really not the HIs job, the seller and the RE agent have already done that. Most people assume the house must be more or less perfect because nothing was on the home disclosure. the HIs job is to call attention to all deficiencies.
This is one of the hotly debated subjects among HI's: say "good" stuff or not?
The view I take is this: my clients are hiring me to access the condition of the house because they don't know much about houses (or most of the systems in them - I do inspections for folks in the trades fairly regularly.)
When I see problems, I describe the problem and try to access how significant it is or might be. When I see particularly good stuff - stuff that goes above average for the type of home, I tell them about it, too. I'm not talking "pretty wallpaper" or "pretty view." More like "This is a rock solid deck"; or "they didn't take any of the shortcuts with such and such that some contractors take, they're really using the best practices, not just the ones they can get away with." Stuff like that ."Look at the wiring in this panel. how organized and neat everything is. In my opinion, it's a good sign that the electrician had obsessive-compulsive disorder."
I figure that if they don't know enough to spot bad technical stuff, they don't know enough to spot good technical stuff . If all I do is point out the "bad" stuff" they might end up thinking the house is worse than it really is.
Plus, most people are pretty nervous by the time the inspection is taking place: Have I made the right decisions? Can we handle this financially, have I selected the right mortgage? Is this the right house for us? Will our kids like the new school? Is the house a money pit?
They've got all that stuff swirling around, and along I come and start pointing stuff out. If I don't give them the full picture and a sense of perspective and a sense of understanding of the significance of what we're finding, I'm not serving their best interests, in my opinion._______________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Bob,
You say that speaking about the good things after an inspection is a hotly debated topic among HI.
Thats a serious problem IMO. Why in the world would it be debated? Where is it written that HI have to talk about "only" the bad?
You guys are called "Inspectors", not "Inspectors of Problems".
I never got why HI have to fill up volumns about all and only the negatives to new home buyers...specially newbies. From the dozens upon dozens of Inspections I have witnessed through my wife of over 15 years in RE all I ever saw for the most part was pretty scarey stuff dictated to the buyer......mainly the young first time buyer.
Also, as far as a RE agent giving HI recomendos..my wife and several other agenst I know give more then one HI'ers name. In my area there arent more then half a dozen real regular HI anyway unless they come from further away which is rare.
Keep up the good work Bob...there should most definatly be more like you out there.
Be Walker HI Ranger,
Namaste'
Andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You talk in circles just like your tag line.
Pop the knob off of the oven control and look at the back, It can be ajusted!