I’m new to breaktime, having spent most of my time at Knots. I’m hoping that you can provide a little insight into a big decision I’m facing.
I’m a structural engineer by training and have spent two years since completing my degree working for a design consultant. Bridge design mostly and some heavy civil for a waste water treatment plant.
I’m considering leaving consulting and getting into home building. I’ve done some construction supervision and have a working knowledge of the structural side of building materials. I can read blueprints.
What I envision is working for a medium sized builder, doing quantity take offs, and dealing with construction issues to start. Eventually I’d like to become familiar with all the trades and will devote some time to working as a labourer with each. Down the road I’d move towards general management, including the business aspects of financing, land aquisition, marketing and sales. With the right experience I’d like to become a builder in the general sense dealing with every aspect.
Knowing only of design and construction, with some general business background I feel very naive when it comes to homebuilding.
Is homebuilding the challenging yet rewarding profession I envision? Is there a job for someone like me who is quite capable but inexperienced?
Thanks for the feedback, fire away if you like…
Andy
Replies
I think there's a job for you but I think your're timing is off.
. Just think for a moment, every month or so someone posts on this board that they want to get into homebuilding. Is there money to be made? Maybe. I say it's already been made.
We have just had a 14 year run of hard hitting construction, and we 're due for a cooling off period. Think of what your doing here. First you want to quit your job, and take something entry level( it's probably going to be for less money, and less benefits.) The low man on the totem pole will probably be the first one to get sent on the unemployment line next January( give or take a month or two). Your existing job will have already been filled with no chance of you going back to it.
Why don't you sit tight, wait out the upcoming construction recession, then launch yourself in to it, keeping this in mind:
You have kind of set yourself a schedule, ( " I'm going to start out doing this"____", then I'm going to graduate to "______", then I'll learn "_____". That's not the way it happens. When you get a job with Beazer Homes or someone, and they train you for, lets say , estimating., That's it! Your stuck in a rut. None of this laborer one month,sales the next month, etc etc. Comprende!?
Like Panama Red said, there are all kinds of threads like yours. Sometimes it seems like once a week. Searching the archives should bring up dozens of such threads, which will give you a lot of readng material.
Hanging around here and reading the business folder in particular will give you a good feel for what you'll have to deal with on a regular basis as a contractor.
Great, I'll take a look.
I think the only way to make a good living in housebuilding is to start a development and build 200 starter homes in one year, then do it again.
LOL, I guess that means that 99% of people aren't making a living in home building, but that's besides the point.Thanks for the brownbagg advice. Completely irrelevant.
Some of the best money to be made is not in learning everything, but in learning one thing well. Then assemble a crew, teach them your skill and do that one thing well ... and fast. Roofing is a gold mine.
Hey fellow Canuck, welcome, (Even if you're a Flames/Oilers fan ;-)....
I am starting to build my first house this month, and have been approached for my second! Now is a good time for volume here in Vancouver and area, the only concern being TRADE SHAORTAGE!!!!
I just today got my Elec. AND plumber lined up, but the others.....The guys I know are hesitant to start with someone new, preferring to make hay with those they know.
All kinds of good people on this forum, with all kinds of info, good and bad(learn to filter.....)
I might need a structural eng. to look at my dwg.s, interested?. Cheers,Phil."If 'tis to be,'twil be done by me."
Agreed. My roomate is a roofer. Unfortunately, or fortunately that doesn't interest me. I'd rather deal with the bigger picture.
"Roofing is a gold mine."
that line caught my eye. I just gotta ask ... are U a roofing millionaire?
thousand-aire at least?
out of all the trades ... I think of roofing as being the one most likely to get under cut at. Not saying the potential isn't there ... and thinking of one particular "regular" here ... I know it's possible ... but roofing in general is a cut-throat biz ... pretty much at the bottom of the list of what I'd recommend a rookie jump into if he's expecting to make any money at all.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
jeff.. i also think roofing is a goldmine... the problem is getting and keeping a good crew...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think it's a gold mine "in theory" ...
around here ... roofing is the most cut throat/bottom feeder loaded trade there is. Everyone and anyone with a ladder, a hammer, and a bucket of tar is a "professional roofer" ... low balling the customers ... and themselves ... and vastly undercutting the rates or real professional roofers that actually have the knowledge to get the job done right.
this is the land of "3 tab asphalt" ... might be different in other areas where higher end materials are common ... but there are tons of slap them then hope the pick up starts "contractors" here ... too much bad competition.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
the market for good roofing is the same in any area...
i would bet they still sell Mercedes & Hummers in PGH too..
anyone who hired a roofer and it leaks is a candidate..
anyone who wants peace of mind is a candidate..
and anyone who observes a roofing job in progress can tell the difference..
method, safety, cleanliness, materials, flashing, accessories, trim ... yada , yada , yada..
ask hazlett...
as far as around here... i can get them installed for $75/ sq ( or $150 /sq with materials )....
i can also sell jobs for $600 / sq.... there is a difference.. someplace in that spread is the customer's comfort zoneMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Jeff---and Mike,
what I have found---is that roofing can be a " goldmine" on an individual project basis------
BUT
the more of it you do---and the more of it you HAVE to do----the less lucrative it becomes.
roofing has some great things going for it.
1)It is very easy to get into----anybody who is reasonably fit and owns a pickup truck with a ladder can get in the roofing business TODAY!
2)It's also very easy to get out of----just stop answering your phone!
Of course 1 &2 are also disadvantages to the established contractors already in the business----As Jeff notes.
Previously in this thread someone mentioned learning to do something well---and then training a crew to do it well and FAST.
Well in my limmited experience---that is just about the LEAST profitable and MOST stressfull way to operate in the roofing business. Remember that the actual work is brutally hot, extremely physical, has more than a fair degree of physical risk, and does not pay well as an employee. the kind of people willing to accept those working conditions are not typically pleasant people----nor are they ordinarily reliable. Many come with A LOT of baggage of one kind or another----and when you assemble a crew of these people you may find yourself less of a contractor and more of a babysitter,bailbondsman,parole officer and banker. If you need a crew of 4----you will have to hire at least 6 to be reasonably certain that 4 will show up on any given day. you can also be certain that on the day you have an easy one layer walker to do----all 6 will show up-----and the day you are working on a monster 14/12, 3 layer asphalt over slate tear off----only 3 will show.
and when you have a full crew----the need to sell ,sell SELL works a full court press. you will find yourself doing jobs just to keep the crew busy and intact------and at rates that make you NO money.
Depending on direct employees is the WORST way to make a buck in this business.
My FAVORITE way is to do the work with my own hands. Of course at age 42 this becomes increasingly problematic---this IS a young mans sport ( hence my gradual sideways move into windows, doors, decks, siding , plaster repair etc.) However---working solo can be very lucrative----if you specialize in jobs nobody else wants to do( small troubleshooting projects)---
Do the projects the bigger guys can't do---re-flash chimneys with a crew of 6 standing around watching. You would be suprised how often a customer tells me---as they hand me a check---" you know , you were the ONLY person who would even come out and look at this problem?"
On SMALL jobs-----I price according to the PITA factor---and I assume I will be the only one giving a price.
Of course jobs frequently come along that are to big for me to do solo---or with one helper-------------that's were dependable subs come in. As Mike pointed out----when your costs are going to be in the range of $200/square---and you can sell the job at$300, $400, $500 plus----that's your goldmine oportunity. BUT----you have to service the heck out of those customers---they ARE paying for it. And using subs means that you don't have to low price anything just to drum up work to keep the crew busy, and you don't have to play babysitter, bail bondsman----and you don't need a fleet of trucks, trailers, dump trucks or an arsenal or nailguns and air compressors. It's very easy to contain your costs and keep your overhead low.
Pay the sub MORE than he asks---and he will always be happy----after all HE has the fleet of trucks, trailers, dumptrucks and arsenal of nailguns and compressors to pay for----and HE has the crew of direct emplyees to keep busy. At the end of the project he goes his way and you go your way----untill the next project.
to summarize
solo good, subs good, employees BAD( unprofitable)
Very best wishes, Stephen
SH, a buddy who was building in Las Vegas said the only time the roofers were happy was when they had a new crack pipe.
Joe H
In thier book, The Millionaire Next Door, Stanley and Danko actually list roofing contractor as one of the top ten ways self made millionaires have made it. While I am not a millionaire yet, I do make more money on roofing than almost any other single phase of construction. I know it is a cut throat buisness, but once you rise above that level there isn't a limit to the money that can be made. There is company in my town that has been around for a long, long time and are charging over $250/square for re-roofing, and are booked up for 2 years. My statements are not unfounded, but good question.
That's a really good point mrhodes.
BTW I own that book also.
I started out doing a variety of work--------but have specialized in roofing for the past 15 years or so------because I could make more money in a day of roofing than ANYTHING else I knew how to do--------and that meant I could spend LESS days per year working. ( I work about 1000 hours per year)
but you pay a price for that money
and now I am MORE interested in trading some of that money and free time for less stress, more congenial " co-workers", and more interesting projects ( roofing is usually extremely boring----and the monotony of it is usually only broken up by occasional terror. LOL)
Very best wishes to you,
Stephen
Stephen, your perspective on the roofing business is always welcome.
Congrats on your Top Ten Roofing mistakes article. I picked that rag off the rack and bought it thinking that it was going to list ten roof frame errors. I was pleasantly surprised to find out it was about shingles and that you authored it. Excellent article even though you started out hammering the rough framers!
Interestingly, I noticed two sheathing errors in the picture that depicted problem #1. The top pieces of the OSB is oriented wrong and the piece appears to be less than 8". Both of those mistakes would fall into my Top ten Framing mistakes.
blue
Its' a hard way. Try a couple Habitat for Humanity before you quit a good job.
and some heavy civil for a waste water treatment plant..
I'd stick with THAT! We all got to go sometime!
Andy,
I'm just coming to completion on my first house, and like you, I have skills that transfer over to new home construction. Without getting into detail of my experience (I could write a book) which by the way can only be characterized as an odyssey of stress, anxiety and moments of shear terror coupled with the constant feeling that impending doom is always lurking just off in the shadows. Oh yes, there have been times or moments of respite, and the occasional feeling of triumph and accomplishment but they've been brief as there's always a new ordeal heading your way.
That said, I have heard of people who have had a much easier time then I have, some worse. I have decided not to believe much of those wonderful stories as a lot of them just don't make sense knowing what I know now. Many of the non-pro OB's (owner builders), who have had success, have been lucky, plain and simple. Many of these people were fortunate enough to have had good contractors and no major issues arise. They weren't forced into making crucial decisions that they're not qualified to make. Or, which I think is very likely, they simply didn't have the expertise to spot faulty work, and/or issues that did arise were simply covered up or not made known to the OB. Ignorance is bliss. Likely these OB's will find out at a later most inopportune time. Also, where I live, western NY, the boom didn't start till about 4 years ago. Many of these OB's who've claimed to have made 100k, benefited greatly from the lag between retail appreciation and cost to build. That's gone now.
I would suggest, keep your job, build something you can afford to keep if you have to, and that you can afford to take a year or even longer to finish. See how that goes, and then move on. Also, which was EXTREMELY helpful and beneficial for me, get a Good project coordinator! The first guy I had, who was somewhat of a friend at the time, was also a drifter type, and didn't have the expertise he claimed too, amongst other things. He booked on me 3 months into the build which created some major issues. I tried to handle things myself, which just didn't work out. I was having to make some major decisions on things I just didn't have the expertise to make. I had issues not of my doing, but regardless, had to be resolved. As an aside, many of the people on this board were extremely helpful, and they have my sincerest gratitude. Anyway, 5 months later, with some divine intervention, I found an excellent Project Coordinator. That has made a huge difference. I plan on starting a thread or likely, I'll break it down into several threads, discussing my experience. If I can be of help, I'll gladly relate my thoughts and experience on any particular area you have a question about.
-dp