How do u power new 200AMP panel from old
Ok, to all master electricians, I give up and finally am going to ask. I’ve put in a number of 200AMP panel upgrades over the years, but exactly how, or what is the best way, to power up the new meter socket so the customer has power on the new 200 AMP panel until inspection and until the utility comes to do their job? (and yes I know y ou’re not supposed to power up a new panel without inspections, but this is the real world here).
Typically I”ve been doing it this way: I unattach the old meter base from the wall and swing it to the side. I install the new meter base and new SEU cable to the 200amp panel. Then I install the SEU cable to the bottom lugs of the meter base while at the same time attach a conductor from the old service wiring (coming from the bottom of the old meter base) to the same bottom lugs of the new meter. After wrestling with this for what seems like hours I finally get the lugs to clamp and I then plug the meter back into the old meter box. The new meter box serves as a “junction” until inspection and the utility do the cutover.
Today I had to do it out the sweltering heat trying like crazy to make the new meter base hot as described above. Anyone who has wrestled with 4/0 conductors before knows they have a mind of their own and stubborn as the blazes. I got the 4/0 cable on the lugs but everytime I tried to put in one of the old service conductors and put the lug clamp on, the clamp would always pop off, reason being the lugs aren’t designed for two conductors, the thickness of the two is too much. I wrestle with it, and finally it goes but not without much pain, aggravation, and thoughts of “there just has to be a better way.” The heat today made it more miserable than ever. I wanted to go home to some A/C, my customer wanted THEIR A/C.
Some foolproof “better ways of doing this” are MOST WELCOME. If offering a suggestion, please be detailed so I can be sure I follow.
Replies
Nobody will like this, plus do it only on your own house. Be reading on the deck while waiting for the inspector or power company.
Like Pyro said, swing the old out of he way. Install the new, connect the grounds.
Make yourself a pair of #6 wires with 32 mil copper tabs 3/4 inch wide and 2 in long, silver solder or braze the #6 to these and tape up all but 3/4" on the end. Now you have a jumper cable. Plug into the new meter base first, then plug into the hot side of the old meter base. Have a brewski on the porch while you await the changeover, when you see the truck or inspector coming up the street, quick pull the jumper and throw into the bushes. Of course, I've never done this.
Don't try this at home - that should cover the first sentence.
#6 wires??? Will #6 wires carry a 100amp load? Not sure about that. In this service the old service was 100amp, the new obviously 200amp.
Where do I find these copper tabs?
I'm also wondering if there is a way, on the NEW meter socket, to make some kind of metal blade that I can slide between the top pins the meter pins slide into and the bottom pins to in effect jumper the top lugs to the bottom lugs. Then I can install the SEU cable on the bottom lugs permanently and be done with it and bring the hot side of the old meter base into the top lugs of the new. Plug the meter in the old and bam I"m in business. Any ideas on this one?
" Danger, Danger Will Robinson !!!!"
Seriously don't even joke about shoving homemade jumpers into meter bases,somebody will take you seriously and actually do it.And get ----ed up but good.
The only short circuit protection you have is ahead of the utility transformer,and if you slip with your pliers or screwdriver inside the meter base,you'll get a faceful of metal before the fuse ever opens.
I'd be suprised if it's a regional thing, but I've never heard of anyone ever changing a service without cutting the old one loose at the drip loop,installing the new service, and then bugging or big blue wirenutting it back to the drop conductors.Call for inspection,whenever they pass it and release it to the utility,the linemen come back and make the permanent connections.When you leave the customer has full metered power.
If you can't snip the neutral strands ,then the hots, at the drip loop then you really shouldn't be changing services.
Well, I've been changing many services and basically taught myself how to do it along with help from the inspector and according to his own words, there ain't many people out there who do them as nice as I. So, no one has showed me a better way to power up the new service. I"m more than willing to learn a new way (thus my original posting.) The "snip the hot conductor at the drop" part was new to me. I never heard of it before. When I say I"m scared to death to do it, I mean that but only if I have no proper and safe instruction on how to do so. If someone showed me exactly how to do it, I'd be just fine and would relish the method because I"m sick of connecting the old wire to the new meter just to power it.
By the way, lest one would consider me a danger to myself...hardly. I know quite well what I"m doing and have had my own share of mistakes, vaporized wire, shocks, etc. And every pro I know has had an equal share, too. Comes with the territory.
Lest anyone think I am contradicting myself...... a utility worker showed me once how to install a service. I watched him once, I didn't do it. Then I read Rex Cauldwells book How to Wire A house and became versed there. Then I built a relationship wi th the inspector. Then I did my first service years ago with the inspectors help/guidance. From there I"ve been solo...stuck in the mud doing the same ole same ole every time. And very profitable to say the least.
we don't use fiberglass or wooden ladders arouind electrical wires, kind of prefer aluminum. This way, it's possible to get a jolt or two, kind of like a shot of expresso, or that 2nd cup of coffee. Sure wakes up the slow starters.no turn left unstoned
Maybe it is regional. I"ve always been told this is the best way to do it (leave the old service connected to the drip). In this way the utility comes out, disconnects the old, reconnects the new to the drip loop and then put the meter on the new and voila, all done. I've done a lot of them like that and the inspector or utility have always been fine with it. When I first learned how to change a service I was taught by a retired utility worker who changed hundreds of services over his career. So that's where I got it from. Maybe it is regional.
One thing is for sure, I like the idea of doing as you suggest, nixing the old service right off the top and powering the new. It'd save me a trip back to the customer site because the utility won't keep and trash the old, they leave it for the customer to dispose of. However, I try to run my operation clean with no burden on the customer, so as a courtesy I always go back and retrieve and dispose of the old. Sure I don't have to, but it's just how I prefer to run things and keep my customers happy and impressed with the service I provide.
1) You don't. All work, the major connections, are completed between 6AM and 6PM. Inspections are scheduled for 4PM with reconnection happening about 5PM. If the main connections are not made by 5PM the utility will send a trouble shooting crew to connect the new weatherhead and set the meter.
The HO is advised that they will be without power for the day. Refrigerators and freezers will easily hold, especially is their thermostat is lowered 24 hrs before start of work. In the unlikely case there is a load that absolutely must be carried during construction, fluidic beds and cooling for the elderly can be kept working with a generator on site. A second generator is used to power tools and lights for the crew.
2) Rarely, failures in communication or utilities overloaded with storm damage, power crews can not get to the site in a timely manner to reconnect the service drop.
I turn off the main breaker and lock it in the off position with a lock out device and frangible lock. I insulate the ends of the drip loop with tape and post a sign on them warning of generator use. I plug the generator into the panel by way of the drier receptacle with a male-male adapter purpose built for this. This allows the HO to have power to selected loads. I have run one of these set ups for up to 48hrs. This emergency installation is monitored by myself or a trusted coworker at all times.
An alternate solution. I connect the rolled up but still live service drop, being on good terms with the linemen helps as they could just as well disconnect the drop at the transformer, to the weatherhead with large wirenuts. If necessary I use a jumper if the drop comes up short. A length of #6SEU is kept handy for this sort of thing. While it won't carry a full 200A for long it will carry an average house with little problem as the cable is well cooled as it is exposed. All connections are well insulated if accessible and the area is marked off with barrier tape.
Only problem with #1 is that the utility here allows for 10 working days to make the cutover once inspection is passed. They don't do same day service around here. I got them to do it once, but there was some exception that I don't recall now.
I passed inspection today. The new service wired as I described in my original posting. The inspector says what he always did was climb the ladder (ie fiberglass or wooden), snip the two hots, splice the new SEU 4/0 cable to the hot using a 3/4" romex connector as a "splice." A word of caution, make sure like hell you don't ground yourself to something when doing this. I'm scared to death to cut a main hot like that, so I guess so far I'm stuck with the old way so far.