Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 29, 2000 05:31pm | #1

   *
   often times... but an attic inspection and a basement inspection would help too...

   people did strange things and then covered them up with drywall... so you never know , but you can make some good deductions....

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 29, 2000 11:29pm | #2

   *I'd say that's not a bad rule of thumb. I'd want to look alittle deeper but 9 times out of 10, he's on the money.

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 29, 2000 11:48pm | #3

   *It's a fair rule-of-thumb, but it may not hold true in multi-story house where floor joist orientation changes between floors, or even portions of floors.You need to check every platform above and below that wall, from basement to attic. Even then, some interior non-load bearing partitions do run perpendicular to joists.I'm sure your builder checked above and below...analyzed what he saw...and came to the conclusion that he did...which is why he's a builder.

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 30, 2000 04:19am | #4

   *Are you going to question everything he says? Getting answers from a bunch of 8th graders on the internet may not be the best thing to do. Hire someone you trust, then ask them. Jeff

2. 
   nathan_w | Aug 30, 2000 05:53am | #5

   *
   you guys in 10th grade have always been pushy.

3. 
   Guest_ | Aug 30, 2000 05:53pm | #6

   *
   Oh, don't listen to Buck; he's just afraid of saying the wrong thing in public, especially since he's met some of you.

   Here's the answer for Drew: Yep, and two weeks.

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 30, 2000 11:37pm | #7

   *Drew,If something above the wall is resting on top of the wall, like the end of a ceiling joist or a roof rafter or a roof support brace, then it is bearing the load of whatever is resting on it. Get it......load bearing wall. A lot of times a closet wall or something like that may may not be responsible for carrying the weight of something directly above it. That's called a non-load bearing wall. If you remove a wall that is directly supporting something above it, then you have to transfer that load somewhere else or you got trouble. The whole idea is to transfer the weight of things all the way back down to the foundation. You can't leave any weight hanging in mid air.Ed. Williams

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 31, 2000 05:42am | #8

   *Good answer Ed. I bet you made it all the way through the 12th grade!

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 31, 2000 11:50pm | #9

   *Davo,You betcha......C- average to boot. Shoot......I even went to The University of North Texas for a few years. Had one heck of a hangover when that ended.Ed. Williams

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 01, 2000 03:41am | #10

   *This question comes up so often that I wrote and saved the following stock answer. In internet language, that's called a FAQ for Frequently Asked Question. When somebody asks how to identify load bearing walls, it's usually because they're thinking of removing a wall. Removing a load bearing wall is not impossible, but it is more expensive. Often much more expensive. It will require some sort of substitute support for the weight it carried, usually some kind of beam. Often this beam will have to be large enough that it extends downward from the ceiling fairly far. On a top floor, you may be able to hide it in the attic. But often the ugly beam sticking down, which always looks like you took out a wall, defeats the architectural purpose of removing the wall in the first place. You may also have to provide additional support under the ends of the beam. This requires a structural engineer. The official code definition of a bearing wall is any wall that supports 100 pounds or more per foot of width, and any masonry wall that supports any additional masonry above its ceiling level. That's not particularly practical or helpful, since there's no instrument to measure the weight on the top plate of a wall. In general, you have to look at what the wall supports, and what supports it. Walls that are parallel to the joists above are usually but not always non-bearing. On my top floor, I have a wall parallel to the joists that supports the rafter tails of a decorative hip roof section. On the top floor, always look in the attic to see if the wall in question carries any roof load. Then look to see if it supports ceiling joists. If the joist tails rest on a wall, it's almost always bearing. I have one exception to that upstairs, where the joist tails rest on a non-bearing 2x3 wall that was the partition between two closets, each 10 feet by 27 inches. On each side, the real bearing walls are only 27 inches from this partition wall. They form the sides of the stairwell. In the past, building codes used to allow 2x3's for non-bearing walls. Now 2x4's are the minimum for all walls. I know that was changed prior to 1971, but I'm not sure how far prior. The only case in which you will find a load bearing 2x3 wall is if bootleg remodeling removed an adjacent 2x4 bearing wall. When you look in the crawl space or basement, a wall perpendicular to the joists and more than one joist depth away from some sort of support -- a beam or cripple wall -- is non-bearing. So, if your joists are 2x10's, and a wall is 11 inches away from the nearest support, it's not supposed to be bearing. As always, beware of bootleg jobs that may have transferred loads to walls that legally shouldn't carry them. The tough part comes when you have three or more stories, and you have to work on the in-between floors. First, you should start from the attic and work down, because any bearing wall up there has to be supported by bearing walls all the way down. As with the crawl space, the max is one joist depth away from floor to floor. Next you may need to do some exploratory demolition of the ceiling to see what's on top of the wall in question. Again you're looking for joist tails, this time the floor joist tails. Finally, even if a wall appears to be non-bearing, if it's perpendicular to the joists above, you have to determine the size of those joists and the new distance they will span if the wall is removed. You can look in the span tables to see if the result will pass code. Or, if you don't have the tables handy, what I do is look around the building for the longest span that exists with that size joist. If your new span is no more than that, it should turn out to be OK when you do find the code book. ;-) -- J.S.

2. 
   Guest_ | Sep 01, 2000 03:54am | #11

   *Drew,

   The best way to know is. . . After you remove it the building falls down. . .

   View Image © 1999-2000"Inferiors revolt in order that they may be equal, and equals revolt that they may be superior." Aristotle

3. 
   Guest_ | Sep 01, 2000 06:56am | #12

   *Another symptom: the door never opens after day one.

4. 
   Guest_ | Sep 01, 2000 07:49am | #13

   *John, that's what I said! Jeff

5. 
   Guest_ | Sep 01, 2000 09:14pm | #14

   *The above was an ad, so I zapped it.

6. 
   Guest_ | Sep 02, 2000 12:57am | #16

   *Actually, sometimes you get lucky and it doesn't fall down. On that wall of mine that supports the back of the hip roof section, some bozo demoed the middle eight feet of it, just cut thru the studs below a decorative plaster cornice, and tacked up a piece of trim. No header, nothing. Looks to me like it sags just a teensy little bit, and the surrounding plaster ceilings are ok -- or at least no worse than any other part of the house. I'll find out how much it sags when I put the wall back right.-- J.S.

4. 
   Drew_Reeves | Sep 02, 2000 12:57am | #15

   *
   I'm having the entryway to my house remodeled, which involves removing one internal wall. The contractor tells me that there will be no problem taking down this wall because it is not a load-bearing wall. I asked him how he determined that and he replied that, the wall is parallel with the rafters, and load bearing walls are perpendicular to the rafters. Is determining if a wall is load bearing a matter of running perpendicular to the rafters?