I thought I would ask this because I dont know any , and I was thinking that strange of me . They seem to be on road constuction , driving semi trucks, etc. So am I alone here? Or is there actually some of them around you ?????
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I met one. I was taking a construction class in college. Man when I saw her come to class with all that blue and red chaulk all over her levis, and found out she had been snapping lines all day Ohhh you dont know what she....for me.... ohhhhh babbbbbyyyy.....
Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
I visit anywhere from 3 to 10 homesites a day. I guess I see more carpenters then the union hall and they are rare. Some are very good and will put you on your #### in a second if you get out of line with them (which carpenters are known to do) Some are daddy's little girl playing at it while they go to college/wait for a hubby to rescue them /or whatever. I know a few really hard working ones who over come the strength issue well enough to be an asset to the crew and just a couple who are good enough to run their own crews.
The ones who are doing it well seem to have common traits. Single parents who have no other way to make a liveable wage for their family, an almost "butch" like attitude regarding men. and a strong can-do attitude. If I could, I'd hire them in a second since in general their work seems excellant and their attitude is refreshing...
I like to see women succeed in a traditional man's field because it puts meaning in the equal rights arguement. I wonder how many women would be able to succeed if men weren't such jerks about women and constantly hitting on them etc. I recognise the strength issue and the difficulty of accepting a non-traditional job (could you be a male nurse if you had the interest and ability?)
This subject makes me realize how far we have to come yet for equal rights is accepted fully.
(father of two girls)
I have never met a female carpenter.
The ones on the road crews are hired primarily to fill quotas. Since the pay is so good, everybody seems to want those jobs.
I'm not saying I live too close to the airport. But last night I was walking from the living room to the kitchen, and a stewardess asked me to sit down.
IV'E SEEN A FEW, ONE VERY GOOD ONE HELD HER OWN IN ANY SITUATION FRAMING, FINISH, ECT. NOT REAL BUTCH EITHER :) . THEN I FELL OFF THE ROOF WHEN SHE BENT OVER TO TOENAIL A RAFTER, LOL
Not carp, but one I know well owns the best flatwork and decorative concrete company in the area, and her sister heads the one crew and works her butt off.
Ive heard several women tell me that they would like to do my work. I know they are interrested . I know two that are job runners, but not carps. One wife of a contractor and one who is a daughter of one . At least it is heard of on this thread. I find it hard to believe Ive never seen one.
I forgot another one. Right now I'm designing a project for FL where a husband/wife team is to be the builder, and she's the one with the GC license. She's a sharp one. He handles the job site, but from the talks I've had with her, she could handle herself quite well on a job site, too.
Seem to be many around here; but most of them stay far away from the union hall or union jobs.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I've worked with a couple, they held up their end of the work just fine. I've encouraged both of my daughters to work with me, but I don't think either of them really like the work. Of course, neither did their brother at the same ages. I'd welcome either of them into the business with me.
One of my sisters-in-law is a carpenter for money/sculptor for fun (just like my brother/her partner). She recently got a gig teaching woodworking at a college and so that is her main income, although she still does side carpentry jobs (repairs) and maintains a rental house.
And my brother-in-law is a nurse.
But we don't see a lot of women carpenters in the jobs we run across at the magazine. This is an on-going issue in construction, obviously.
I have met or worked with 6 or 7 thru the years. Most had to be better than you would expect to get by. One that stands out in my memory was the daughter of a carpentry sub on a commecial job. Looked like a Victorias Secret girl. was a hard worker and had a mouth that would make a pirate blush!
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
I don't know any female carpenters, although I do know a female electrician who is in the union. Her girlfriend is currently applying for an apprenticeship. Nice people, the both of them.
dl
I know of one woman that used to be a carpenter. She was self employed and had her own business as a remodeler. She is now doing painting and wallpapering. She told me that she just got too old and fat to climb and had to do something else. Said her hub and kids raged her to do something else. She also teached carpentry to women in adult education at nights..
Whats that old joke," A Carpenters Dream Girl ?" Flat as a Board & EZ to Screw!
I'm a female carpenter. Any others lurking here? (Bird is a nickname I got from watching birds. Real name: Sarah.) I'll just add that all of the men i work with are great to be around. Co-workers and subs alike.
Well, hang around and stick your beak in some of the conversations around here. We can always use another point of view in the pecking order. Pull up a perch in the tavern and hang around a bit.
(Sorry - Couldn't resist the puns)
Sarah , thanks for responding . Would you like to tell us a little bit about your self ?
For one , or two, Im curious about you becomming a carpenter , Im sure we would like to know what you do, and your thought on why theres not more like you. Thats just a suggestion , but we would be happy for you to sound off some more , and welcome aboard.
Tim Mooney
Hang on all, this could be a long one.
First, for the curious minds - if a female waiter is a waitress, wouldn't a female carpenter be a carpentette, or a carpette, or maybe a carpentina?
I haven't personally known a carpentina but several other women in construction, most of whom were single parents who had more balls than the cowardly sperm donors who had deserted them to raise their children alone.
One was a gal that I hired to work trim but found that she was better at painting - she had a good eye and the patience to do good prep work. She could also talk the whiskers off a cat so I let her do some selling too. I think a lot of gals do good at painting because they are good at fine details. The samne could work for trim and cabinet work.
I had a govt job instaling lotssssss of tile and had to prove up quotas so I hired an Indian girl with a kid to support. She could pound grout all day long and still come up smiling.
My favorite was one who didn't work for me but I saw her story happen on a job I was on. She had been a waitress at the local greasy spoon and got hired to sweep up the job, answer the phone, and generally gophur for the super. It was better pay than she was used to but she didn't settle for just good enough! She was a good communicator and listened to the subs about what they needed and when. She really learned fast about job management and that particular super was a blowhard bag of wind. It wasn't long before all the guys started going to her and by-passin him since he couldn't be counted on anyway. She got everyones ducks in a row and the job got back on schedule. And kept that broom busy too!
Somehow the company suits from out of state caught wind of what was rteally going on and on the next visit, they asked a couple questions for confirmation and then sent the super packing while offering her his wages, along with a permanent promotion to head up their next job. American success story! I'm proud of that girl. She exemplifies what it takes to do well.
Only bad thing about it is that there will always be those who think she got there by sleeping and sucking her way up. I don't believe it. She never slowed down long enough...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for asking. My boss wants to have women on the team but he's never asked how that might be accomplished. What does that say?
As for me, i've always liked houses. My folks did some DIY stuff and I've worked on houses off and on for years. Finally bought a place, rebuilt it, and liked the work. Got a job, but at 38 I hope my aches and pains don't take over. If I'd had encouragement . . . I would have done this loooong ago.
Oh BTW, you guys are right . . . tools are VERY COOL. Tell your wives and girlfriends I said so.
Glad you're here Bird, Hope to hear more from you.
(BTW, That was my nickname in Jr High and High School)
At JLCLIVE a year a go there was a group of Gals called something like "Women in Construction". My impression is that they were mostly union girls from city places like NYC and Rhode Island doing welding, electrical, etc. or independents in remodeling or the buy and fix a house for profit bunch. I can understand the latter because it is a way of sidestepping the traditional male dominance conflicts on some jobs.
Excellence is its own reward!
"Oh BTW, you guys are right . . . tools are VERY COOL. Tell your wives and girlfriends I said so."
FWIW, The "Living Skills" teacher at my daughter's jr. high reminds the boys that sewing machines are a type of power tool!
A few years back.....the class behind mine in Carp/Const Tech had 2 girls. One a single parent...one straight outta HS. The instructors said female students..though few and far between...were usually better students. I was 29 and doing a career change..most students were straight outta HS. The one girl....outta HS....became a good friend. Should be a great addition to any crew right now if she stuck with it......or could have gone into modeling.
Usually when you hear/think of a girl in carpentry...you think "rough and tumble"...she wans't either! Always wondered if that might hold her back.......be more of a distraction on a crew ...thru no fault of her own....
One of the reasons we became friends...my being older and happily married.....seems no one else really wanted to "study" when she needed help studying! Can't say as I'd blame them! My roommate was certainly happy when she'd come down to study! Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
If it weren't for the prevalent male chauvanist attitudes in construction, we would be over run by women carpentress'. Given the amount of ####, know-it-all, stubborn, incompetance that I have seen from our side of the gender gap, Any woman with half a brain and an ounce of drive could make it a lot farther than some guys I have/ do work with! Trouble is that smart ambitious women know better than to get into construction.(see the "Who will build the future thread" in the biznis folder)
Come on Ladies, we ALL need a change in this industry. I say bring it on!!!!
T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
I agree , bring it on !!!!
Tim Mooney
I was talking to my wife the other day and told her if anything were to happen to me to leave my tools for my girls. Is funny but they spend more time out in the shop with me then the boy does. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Its a funny deal. The boy wouldnt help me at all . The girl did work for me , and now Im raising the boys son , and hes pretty excited about it. Mostly cub scouts , but Im hauling him with me this summer . Hes learned quite a bit already . I just let him play mostly until I can teach him something. Biggest job last week was running masking tape on base boards. Hes a lot closer to the floor than I am . lol.
The girl would have made a carpenter , if I would have got her earlier . She has a good mind , she is strong , and a good mechanical sense to work out problems. She learned to run all power tools , and was pretty much ready for the jobsite. She fell in love and moved.
Her brother was too lazy to pull himself out of bed, and still is that way.
So yes its strange how things work out.
Tim Mooney
My Dad is a retired carptenter. I was the daughter that always showed up in the garage when I heard the saw start up. Irritated him greatly-and it wasn't a safety issue. So it is very sweet to hear you talk about your girls. I have listened to Dad complain about my brother's lack of interest for 30yrs. I was the kid with the mechanical/math aptitude and interest, but I was just a girl...Take a good look at your kids, and keep an open mind. I didn't aspire to a construction site job-I know how physical the work is and bad the weather can be. But I would love to be able to go out to the shop and make furniture, for example. As he downsizes his shop, he still "forgets" I am interested.
I've known two female carpenters:
One who'd done fine as a contractor and carpenter in NJ. She's built pretty solid, and I think she actually enjoyed the work. The other was thinner, and rapidly moved into finish work. Finally got out of it because of the fumes in the finishes.
To Oma Yofus,(lol)
Print this thread out and let him read it.
I'm betting it might lead to talk and tears...
Excellence is its own reward!
What a great discussion. As a female mechanical engineer, I know of the challenges of being a woman in a typically man's profession. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. I think many of us women have found the best way to deal with the good and the bad is to keep your head down and do a good job - eventually it will become obvious that you know what you're doing regardless of gender. I think that's why those of us that have stayed in our respective fields (carpentry or engineering) are good at it - we need to work just a bit harder to prove that we do know our stuff. And we're not afraid to ask questions of those we meet that know better. Sit in on any engineering class and often the student that asks the most questions is female. I'm willing to bet it's the same in carpentry. I almost think we're lucky that way - I think guys can be hard on other guys when it comes to asking the "dumb" questions, but we women can get away with it.
Why aren't there more of us? Opportunity. So often, girls are not exposed to the power tools, don't learn how to change the oil in the car or aren't given a hammer to play with when they're 7. Sure - my job as a teen when something needed fixing was to hold the flashlight.
I love doing carpentry and want to do more (strictly DIY for now). But I certainly run into my share of guys that take a look at the blonde hair and blue eyes and explain the details to my husband instead. I really appreciate when anyone takes the time to explain methods etc. without questioning my ability to understand because I'm female. This is especially true on this forum - I've gotten lots of good info from some of you.
Kath -
Don't recall seeing you post before. Why don't you participate more? I'm sure there are things you could contribute, even if they're just in your area of expertise.
So jump in once in a while..............
Can I pay off my Visa with my Mastercard?
I just came from my sisters house. she and her husband are building it. She' s the one who is doing all of the masonary work, he's just her grunt.. (nice work so far) together they are both building a wonderful home on a part time basis.
At the same time, I'm building a timber frame on the same lake so the two of us have lively discussions whenever we take a break....
The bizzare part of this is dad won't touch a tool if he absolutely didn't have to. He handled them like a girl and was afraid to get his hands dirty.
Funny thing about not getting hands dirty ...
I'm currently doing work in the printing business. Talk about lack of gender equity - almost all press operators are men, but this is a business where REALLY fine detail is a must, so you'd think more women would be drawn to it. Anyhew...
When i go into a shop, I expect to get ink under my fingernails, and the guys (bless their hearts) are worried about shaking my hand because of the ink! It's fun.
Boss - I love this forum - get on it whenever I can. Problem is - I don't get enough work done when I do. Keep up the good conversation!
Kath
(Did you hear about the Norwegian who loved his wife so much, he almost told her?)
> What a great discussion. As a female mechanical engineer....
Kath -- My mom is 80 now, but I remember back when we were kids she always had pliers and a screwdriver or two in her purse.
-- J.S.
she "always had pliers and a screwdriver or two in her purse"
Let's hope they weren't for discipline problems, LOL
Hey Kath, welcome in, even if you do have blonde hair and blue I's. Maybe you've noticed that carpenters get along better with blondes than with engineers tho'
;>)
Excellence is its own reward!
"she always had pliers and a screwdriver or two in her purse"
Maybe they were for emergency dental work.
Suppose that she'd be able to board an airplane nowadays?
Excellence is its own reward!
Yah - I generally have a little trepidation when telling people I'm an engineer because of those in this profession that screw things up for the rest of us... But I guess you'll find that in any profession. And being blonde - well, I've heard my share of blonde jokes and laugh at most of them ;)
I thought I would take the time to make this a well rounded conversation. About two years ago I had a female electrician on my site (different from the one I spoke of previously) working on a site lighting crew. Or should I say "not working". This girl didn't do a lick of work. And refused to wear her hard hat. Time and again I would tell her to put on her hard hat. She would and ten minutes later, it was off. Finally I had her removed from my site as I would and worker. I havent seen her since.
dl
The strength issue has always kind of amused me. A contractor I used to work for was pondering hiring a female. Strength was the issue that concerned most of the guys. "I don't want to have to carry a woman." I always enjoyed pointing out that twenty five percent of them didn't have the strength required to do the job either, but we always carried them.
I was watching my lady in the shop today using the table saw to make some trim. I offered a few safety pointers although she is mostly self taught and watches what I do a lot.
I recently found a piece of driftwood and before I could decide what to do with it, she had turned it into a plant stand.
She presently has a piece on display at the local art gallery and I guess you could say I'm a little proud of her. She a fair carpenter, a fine woodworker, a very talented rustic furniture maker and an awesome designer. But the whole point is, as she frequently says:"Guys do it. How hard can it be!!!
silver
Here, Here !!!! Well said , and welcome. A very good response.
My wife runs two plants . People will meet us together and ask me the questions . Wrong one !!!!! She has the brains , and yea thats me with the back. Im extremely proud of her, and she is very good at what she does in a mans world. She is part of the reason I started this thread. She is a top hand working with me on the weekend, I just cant pay her enough!!!! lol!!!
Thanks for joining in , and dont you think we have some gentlemen here ? That was my wifes response. So there you are guys .
Tim Mooney
I know of none personally, but did see a crew of female roofers a couple years back.
Does Robin on Hometime qualify as a "female carpenter" or is she just as useless as Steve Thomas on This Old House.
I don't know if Joanne Leibler is really a carpenter or not but I would steady the ladder for her any day! (if I had not married thewoman of my dreams already)
T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
I work with one, and she's a real carpenter. I have known several very capable and accomplished female woodworkers, too.
> Does Robin on Hometime qualify as a "female carpenter" or is she just as useless as Steve Thomas on This Old House.
IIRC, Robin was a SAG actress who was hired for that gig primarily because she could remember and say lines. Note when there's a lot of spoken information who they choose to do the talking.
I have a good friend whose girlfriend does fine woodwork. We've talked about having her make the 42" x 96" round top front door for us, but that's pretty far off in the future.
-- J.S.
I've known two. One there to prove something...she didn't last. The second was very good and just fun to work with. She genuinely liked the work and didn't ever complain about the lifting or dirt.
The strength issue notwithstanding, I think women would make great carpenters. They tend to be more team-players and once they know the rules, can be quite committed and dedicated to doing the right thing. And based on some of the bravado gamesmen I've worked with, this would be a refreshing change.
A funny and true story, while we're talking about women in the workplace. When I was in the Air Force in the early 80's, we deployed on a Field Exercise, and our sleeping GP Large Temper Tents had not been set up. There were two for the females (nurses, techs, etc) and two for the men. They were new and never used. We made a bet with the women that the last to set up would have to serve the field chow to the others first..in their tents. To make a long story short, we had to serve the chow. Reason: the women read the instructions!!!
BruceM
Bruce that was good of you to tell that story . Thanks for the input.
I'v worked with several over the years. Some good, some not so good.
The one that stands out in my mind is the one I was partenered up with on a comercial remodel/ addition in Wisconsin. She got into our routine very quickly and held her own better than some of the guys. She handeled ALL tools very well.
It was winter and we all were wearing gloves. Allthough hers seemed too big for her hands. After about a week or so of working together, I saw her take off her gloves. I never saw them at lunch as she always seemed to dissapear. Anyway, when she took them off, I was even more impressed with her abilities. Her right hand (she was right handed) had all four fingers missing at an angle from the center knuckle on the index finger, to nothing more than a nub on the pinkey.
Well I was curious as hell to know what happened. Knowing that something like that can be a very personal and/ or touchy subject, I did not ask.
Then one day I was cutting some wedges with a skill saw as she watched. After a few cuts, as I was repositioning my grip, she says "If you cut off any of those fingers, you'll have to fight me for them." Thus opening the door for me.
She told me that several years back she had been working in a metal fab shop and a sher press had got them. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I started this post, I could not rember her name, but it just came to me. It's Gale and she IS an excellent carpenter.
Jeff
good story
I live in Kansas where it is horribly hot and humid in the summer and ear-frosting cold in the winter. I did some exterior deck work today and returned home nearly sick from heat. Much as I would love to see some sister carpenters, I truly hope they use their smarts to get a job that doesn't require them to endure the elements like those of us who do.
I will continue to hope to see more women in our profession, but hate to think of the "fairer" (some say they are tougher than us guys) sex having to sweat and freeze like we do.
Just my (old fashioned) opinion
Dont feel to sorry for them , they have babies and I really think they work more than men on the average.
We've had two women work for us. The first for 4 months until she demonstrated the effects of a drinking problem. She was a pretty good carp, strong with a good sense of balance when she showed up. The second was a woman who came to us to learn woodworking. We told her that we didn't have the time to teach but that she could work part-time as a carp and could learn that way. She lasted about 3-4 years. She had a strength problem which would not have been an issue if she had developed her skills for finish work. Unfortunately she was also a bit of a slob without the attention to detail that is necessary for that. She left us to become a school psychologist and is quite happy with that choice. I would hire another woman in a minute, but don't get a lot of inquiries. BTW, I work with many women on Habitat projects and find them to be excellent workers. Some strength problems but they do listen to instructions. That makes up for a lot.
A Slob for a school shrink? That's scary!
Excellence is its own reward!
I'm pretty strong. I have no trouble carrying a 4x8x3/4. But i've found that strength has a lot to do with attitude. I have to use my body for leverage in ways the guys don't. Especially over my head, but thinking I can move something helps me find ways to do it.
It's funny how the guys all jump on a big dramatic object--a bathtub, for instance, and not one of those plastic pieces of ####--but don't mind if I carry 2x all afternoon! Sokay with me. I might chip a nail!
Again, not carpenters -- but a local plumber is "...and Daughters." He told me, when I was in scoring some free copper pipe from him a few years back (making wind chimes for my sweetie) that the name is for real: one of his daughters was working with him, doing crawl-space plumbing, when she was eight months pregnant!
I have had 4 women on my crew over the years, mostly carpenter helpers, one went on to be a drywall finisher. One ended up becoming my wife. After 17 years she is still a full time employee in my woodworking shop, doesn't do any of the layout work but operates all the machines as well as any man. Also real plus when I go out on installs. As for real Carhart wearing, hammer totein lady carpenters I only met one in 30 plus years.
I just graduated two women students into the cabinetmaking world....both honours students, one a single mom and the other looking after things while her husband is working away. Both honours students, the second one a fraction of a percent away from being the top student, vying with the most talented person at that that stage I've ever seen....so, I'm saying good, both of them. Both employed at the same local shop now, doing well.
I can't honestly recall a female carp; worked with a few woodworkers though. I know of a few female plumbers, and I see women in the trades taught in my campus (we don't teach every trade, but I see them in carpentry and metal fab,at least, and my program, of course). Comes down to the individual, but I'd like to see more.cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
I have known a few lady plumbers. The ones that weren't trying to "prove" anything were very good.
I officially hired a lady apprentice. She is good in bed too. And cute.
Oh, BTW, it's my wife....
I'll bet you are learning a lot from your helper!Excellence is its own reward!
A lot! And it's fun working together too.
yup, you didnt catch me twice as I read the other post . lol . I think your bragging , lol.
Tim Mooney
I am bragging on my lovely wife as I am very proud of her.
I have to chime in and say my wife Barb works out in my stairshop...and any task I ask of her she does with perfection. Very particular. I never have to worry about redoing her work. I have a couple of guys part time on occasion..and I have to constantly keep them in check. Not Barb..once I show her...she stays consistent.
Stan, did you ever consider that our wives (or the other way around!) are what we as partners make them? Call her the ugly old lady and she will be one. Call her the most beautiful bride ever and she will be one. Now which do you prefer to live with?
If your wife reads your post she will exhibit even more of the behaviour you bragged on. Funny how that works isn't it?
I've been telling my wife for seventeen years how beautiful she is and she still tells me that I'm full of bull.
Does that mean I'm becoming more full as years go by?
LOLExcellence is its own reward!
She did read it...and smiled
She doesnt work for me...she works for us