Looking at a home for extensive slate repairs thats been vacant for a couple years . While climbing up to observe and take pics of the roof I snapped these .
What would one have to charge to duplicate this 1841 Italiate woodwork ??
Basically thought that you and Chuck and others might enjoy the detailing .
Best , Walter
And heres the house they are attached to .
Built from locally sawn hemlock, this functional outdoor feature uses structural screws and metal connectors for fast, sturdy construction.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Walter,
Very interesting details there on that house. I quite like the plinth and capital effects on the chimney (if a chimney has the same nomenclature as a column).
And the vertical & horizontal v-grove in the siding. Is that common up your way?
Actually I keep looking at the photos and seeing new tidbits of detail. A nice change from the customary brick or farmhouse/foursquare homes I usually see here.
Thanks for posting these!
Best,
Steve
View Image
Steve ,
I tried to post this morning from Bangor on someones unsecured network , but the connection was poor .
I thought some folks might enjoy seeing some fancy detailing from long ago .
Heading to Lobster Island for a one day job in the A M .
Best ,
Walter
The " quoin " siding is a poor mans stone . Quite popular here after the Greek revival times and even some during .
Yes, I was taken by the corbeling on the chimney also. Nice effect when it doesn't return at the top.
Ah, when I opened the thread this morning, I figured you and Steve would really dig this house!'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
View Image
Walter,
Thanx for those pics. That detailing is incredible.
I have some catalogs (reproduced) and it seems much of the millwork and trim could be ordered. I remember one 3' or so corbel that would have taken me 2-3 days could be purchased for less than $1.00. An ornate chestnut mantel for $5.00.
Chuck S
Chuck ,
I'd hoped you would look in on these pics .
Bangor where this house is located had a number of mills along the Kenduskeag Stream , just a half mile down the hill from this home , that made spectacular pieces .
In the 1830's Bangor was the lumber capital of the World .
Best , Walter
way cool!
View Image
That piece is actually just layers of 3/4 glue to 2x with your talent you could accomplish that easily. I'm sure the balls are glued on as well.
Easier said than done ! Not difficult , but time consuming .
Walter - are you sure about the date? Looks a lot more like 1871 to me. Just sayin'
Jeff
Jeff ,
I remembered incorrectly it's 1857 .
I've maintained the roofs for the now deceased owner for a number of years , before this last bad spell .
http://www.bangormuseum.org/html/tour3.htm
I remembered incorrectly it's 1857 .
I'm still surprised that the brackets etc. are pre-civil war, although New England did tend to run ahead of the mid-Atlantic in style back then.
Jeff
It was the earliest example in this area I believe .
I also am surprised by the date - the decoration is quite Victorian which post civil war - looking at the picture from the museum tour suggests to me that the cupola, porches, and decoration were added to dress up an older structure - "there's enough for everyone"
... in the late 1860s or 1870s ;o) ....
David ,
The porches and cupola might have been later but I think the brackets and window trim is from the original building date .
Best , Walter
Glad you enjoyed them .
Hi Walter,
Those are very nice.
Those corbels would be interesting to reproduce. The scroll work would be fairly routine, but the egg details add some complexity.
That would be enjoyable to work on. I generally do that kind of work by the hour, but if I had to guess, those would cost about $500 each... give or take.
Looks like a good project to work on.
Cheers,
Brian
what technique might be used to reproduce this tapering assembly?
View Image"there's enough for everyone"
"what technique might be used to reproduce this tapering assembly?"
CNC router. Of the $100,000 and up variety.
Nice photos - a lot of those old pieces were really nice old-growth lumber too.
Jeff
>>>"what technique might be used to reproduce this tapering assembly?"
>>>CNC router. Of the $100,000 and up variety
Sheesh...It's hard to believe that they did this sort of work with nothing but hand tools and templates. But clearly, the market made it worthwhile.
As you say, the only way WE would consider this sort of decorum is with a $100K CNC machine. How things have changed...
Scott.
Water power for machinery back then .
OK - - would you venture a guess what machines/techniques were used to produce the original?"there's enough for everyone"
I would bet there is a good chance there was some "pressing" done on those pieces.
A lot of what people commonly assume was carved work was actually pressed into the softer woods by moisture saturation forming and drying. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Hi David,Good question. That is the most involved of the features shown... compound taper... could make undulating and angled router-guide maybe. Those eggs are all different sizes too. Would be fun to try to do with average tooling.Here is a compound curve bracket that would be a hoot:
Some years ago, I worked with a great carpenter-shop man, and we made an elliptical arch piece not unlike that one pictured. We laminated it around a laid out form. The layout was done on the shop floor and he had made one of those elliptical scribes to do it with.Never done one since, but yes, it was a hoot.
Brian,
I thought you'd enjoy seeing these old timers .
The cost was really rhetorical , but I was surprised it wasn't more to reproduce them now .
Meeting with the new owners on Wed. to discuss roof issues .
Walter
Walter,This turned in to quite the imformative thread.Good luck with your meeting.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
I've enjoyed all the responses to what I thought might generate a dozen posts .
I think those who viewed the pictures were impressed with this old woodworking .
Thanks again . Walter
Those are great details to see. Glad you posted them. That price was a wild guess. It would depend on the number of identical corbels being produced. Probably good to charge for set-up and then charge a price per corbel... or just T&M.Looks like that will be an interesting roof to work on.Regards,Brian
Brian ,
Thanks again . That one you showed would certainly be challenging !!
I'll know more late Wed . on what they are planning to do . Might be a good Winter project .
Best , Walter
There used to be an old milling shop in Middletown NY, located near a small stream. Its machinery all ran on big leather belts, off an overhead shaft which ran the length of the shop. The main drive belt came up through the floor from a big electric motor, formerly a water wheel.
The owner of the shop was very kind to me, a budding craftsman, always helping me to make beautiful stairs, bar tops and other projects. He had a good stock of many fine species which he sold to me at very reasonable prices, always making up anything I couldn't do for myself with my limited tools.
He had a huge collection of milling knives from the previous century. He told me that he could reproduce any and all of the old mouldings which graced the homes from the early days.
Looking back, I would have been wise to ask him to let me work for him when I wasn't otherwise engaged. That place had so much to offer that I'd have learned from just hanging around and sweeping the sawdust off the floor.
Any idea if that mill still exists? I'd love to take a look.
Any idea if that mill still exists? I'd love to take a look.
I hope so but I don't know for sure. It was on a short side street, Stanton Ave I believe.
The owner's name was Rasmussen. He must have passed, many years ago but I remember that he had a son or grandson working there, and several other employees, so it might still be in business.
He told me that his bread and butter was specialty work for NYC restorations so it's quite possible that the old shop is still in the same condition, making a good buck on that kind of work.
>>>He had a huge collection of milling knives from the previous century.Did you ever see any of that old gear in action? Now THAT would be a very cool experience.Scott.
Did you ever see any of that old gear in action? Now THAT would be a very cool experience.
The whole place was a very cool experience, watching one of them pull a long wooden handle that pushed a steel wheel against a slack leather belt, engaging one of the milling machines.
Mr. Rasmussen once showed me how he could combine several knives to make a particular shape. But he just held them together in his hand. When I asked for a demonstration he picked up a couple of scrap pieces to show me. They were amazing in their size and intricacy. I remember spending some time examining his sample board too.
Like I said, I regret not having volunteered to do the sweeping, just to get closer to that atmosphere for a longer time. The place still resonates in me as a pure experience of woodworking at it's best.
A photo thread of that shop would be worth it's weight. I would even be willing to give up a little of my "document space" for it.
I have always been impressed to see this window/sash shop video. Great old belt-driven machinery.
It's The Woodwright's Shop, Roy Underhill is a little hokey and you hope he doesn't get in the way and have an accident, but the shop is AWESOME.
Maybe a bunch of you have already seen this.
Streaming video here: http://flash.unctv.org/woodwrightss/wws_2612.html
View Image
Ken, I'm on dial-up here so I'll bookmark that video and enjoy it at a later date. Thanks for posting the link.
A photo thread of that shop would be worth it's weight.
I hope that the old place is still there. Stands to reason that, with all the interest in restoration over the last thirty years, it should be.
Now that you mention it, I'd like to have some photos and videos of it all for myself and to share. When I get back in that area, I'll make sure to take a right at the light on Genung St and see if it's still there at the corner of Stanton.
I can't remember where it was , but there is a small mill shop in upstate NY that runs on a water wheel with the main axle running overhead and the canvas & leather belts running up to it. I think it may be a long the Hudson somewhere.Anyhow, my Grandpa had a metal lathe that was in a shop like that which he simply converted the pully system to a geared down electric motor.
He also had an arc-welder that was attached to a generator that ran off the engine of a '38 Buick. He ripped out the seats in the Buick and installed the generator there. The welder, of course, was on the outside. He had a little side business with it. When he died at the age of 97 we didn't know what to do with the thing. I think it may have gotten junked.Those water-wheel shops of the 19th century were something like 90% efficient, because the water that ran the wheel just kept on downstream after its use.
There are still a few old water wheel flour mills in New York State, small ones. There's one on a small stream south of New Paltz, still selling flour of all kinds. They allow visitors to walk through the mill and see how everything works.
Since this thread I have remembered a show I saw on PBS over 20yrs ago about an old timer running a water powered mill. He did woodworking and metal work, and maintenance on the mill as well.
In the show he made a large water trough for cows that had steel hoops to hold it together. He made a cool horse drawn sleigh to pull logs out of the forest in the winter. He bent steel rails to the underside of the runners while the metal was hot and malleable.
He also custom made a pitch fork for an even older gent who used it to pull up sod at a cemetery.
They also showed him cleaning out the sluice gates for the water wheel and switching the leather wheel from one pulley to the other.I wonder if PBS has it in their archives and if it is available on DVD?
I remember that program too. The happy old fellow building the heavy duty log sleigh sticks out in my memory.
I believe that was part of a series on old time methods of woodworking and metal working that were still being followed by a few.
One of the other episodes was on a one man shop where wood shovels were made for loading gun powder granuals off a concrete floor at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey.
That old arsenal is in my region and I knew someone who worked there, so the story was of some interest to me.
Edited 10/13/2009 12:44 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
there is a mill on the Maumee, not far from Calvin/Riverfest, that is owned by the parks department of that county - it has a burr wheel for grinding grain, but also a line shaft that goes to another part of the structure and powers machines - there is also a sawmill that is part the machine - DW and I stopped there on the way home from Riverfest and checked it out - they had the sawmill operating, but no one was on the machines - there was a couple of lathes, and other equipment, but I don't remember much specifically - the turbine was powered by water spilling out of the canal into the river - neat place - they had a canal boat you could take a ride on - we didn't have the time to get the full tour - end of the day and all - "there's enough for everyone"
DW and I stopped there on the way home from Riverfest and checked it out - they had the sawmill operating...
One of my favorite ways to vacation is to take old two lane roads that go from town to town, as we get to where we're going, just to see what'll show up from the early days.
Often as not there's a small museum in town, dedicated to pioneers of the area with someone who has lots of local knowledge on hand to talk with you about those times, using the displays to bring it all to life.
Asking a few respectful questions of a person like that can bring out the best sightseeing, fishing, swimming, food...you name it. The opportunity to get in touch with some history and local beauty in that way is close to priceless at times.
http://www.touring-ohio.com/northwest/toledo/providence.htmlA Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KJbRHO76s
THATS IT!
Thanks so much. Talk about old school. I wonder what happened to the mill.
Exactly like the shops here from the mid 1800's that made such wonderful millwork here .
Wow! isn't that fantastic?
The detail and craftsmanship is fantastic!
It was always a treat to work on this magnificent home .
Years ago before digital pics I redid the cupola roof that a huge wind blew it off .