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My husband wants to build a small deck off the back of our starter house. (Currently there’s no place in the yard to sit and relax). The concrete stoop outside back door, cracked and full of ants, would be removed. My concern is that in about 5-8 years we will remodel/enlarge our too-tiny house and deck would be demolished, thus losing the $ we invested. I thought a patio would be a wiser idea– but we would still have to replace the stoop. Who do you think has the better idea? And if you think deck is good plan, would you suggest wood or Trek?
Thank you in advance for advice. I love your forum.
Carla
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Patio
4" of sand/gravel base compacted and laid with stone surface chosen from local retailer. When addition is built you can just pick up the pieces and stack'm for re-use. You can build a small step or stoop from wood as a pallet to set on top of it all.
sheesh, I hate taking the womans side in an argument like this
*CarlaIf you're going to add on later why not incorporate something that can be added on to. Such as putting in a perimeter foundation and a concrete pad. This will require a permit in most areas, but at least you're not throwing away a deck.Sorry I had to take your side, tell your husband; Terry is short for Teresa. NOTTerry
*patio gets my vote , too..just the way piffen described it... with pavers for the surface.. either brick (modular).. stone.. or some of the new concrete products that look like cobblestone
*I'd build the deck. Folks always talk about the big remodel 5-8 years down the road, then you need a new car, then someone gets another job, then you move, then the remodel never happens.And if you call this your starter house, you'll definietly move within 10 years.Build the deck with PT lumber (inexpensive) and then if you do add-on or remodel later, its no big loss but at least you'll get 5 years enjoyment out of the deck.Thats just me however...Mike
*Labor would be about the same for either.I would rather cut wood and pound nails than dig,move dirt, sand, and pavers from the front of the house to the back,not to mention all the bending over. Granted lumber has to be packed also, but what could smell better than the smell of new wood.I vote for wood because it is still 3 times less expensive than Trex,and you said it would be demolished in 5-8 years. I'll bet you won't lose a nickle if you get 5-8 years enjoyment on an elevated surface looking out over your well groomed estate.There will probably be less ants crawling up your legs on a deck vs. a patio, but you might consider spraying to eliminate those little critters. I've always been a little partial to decks.Bob
*Either.If patio, do as written above.If you do a deck, screw the deck boards down so you can remove and reuse down the road.Same with the structure...either lagged or carriage bolts. Use joist hangers.Stainless fasteners won't rust making for easier removal.Flip a coin.
*I second what Michael said. If you amoritize the cost of the deck over even 5 years it come out to be less than the value you realize from use of the deck.And, given how long term plans for remodel go and that this is a starter house, I say build what looks the best now.
*Carla, been there done it. Our home is tiny, the yard is big, the neighborhood is semi-rough, and the plans are/were many. The back yard dropped consideribly just off the back door, and its elevation differed greatly as compared to the neighbors on either side. So, we had some 300 yards of fill dirt brought in (free), rented a Bobcat, and pushed some dirt around. Planted grass, watched it grow, dropped some trees, suffered a drought, watched the grass die, and then called a friend's dad to come over with his Kubota tractor and pushed some more dirt around. Then we poured a 20x20 patio with a couple 2' walls, steps up to a narrow patio, with 4' walls, a walk way to PT steps and porch to the back door. Porch has a small built in bench to sit and take shoes off at or just breathe in the Jasmine that grows on a window like frame that supports the porch.Here is my advice, since I did not heed my own warnings or that of others. Think long term, be realistic about your plans, desires, and considerations not only for yourselves but also for future use by others. My wife have been in this little house for 11 years, have a small child, need more space, and have bounced numerous ideas around as to what we should do to the place. Ideas keep changing.Originally, my thought was to build the 44" inch wall in such a way as to be able to add on to the house later and use them as foundation. This would have been great had I better prepared not only my thoughts but also my actions during setting forms and pouring the concrete. Nonetheless, the walls and patios have served us well, just needed a bit more thought.Consider the following and think ahead, but don't let it stall you.Site prep such as moving/adding dirt to obtain desired gradeCurrent condition of foundation(does it exsist) of house and can you add/extend to it for future addion?Opportunity cost, ie. do it now or do it later.Time is money, going the easy way now, with realistic big plans later, may mean an additonal work/project to re-prep later and you might not have the time or desire to re- do your efforts.Consider such things as elevation, water drainage from roofs, utility lines ie. sewer, water, gas, elec.Utilize resources such as friends who might have or know someone who has equipment like a tractors, dump trucks. If you need dirt, keep your eyes open for projects going on locally doing site work and hit them up for their dirt, don't accept debris or junk.Check with your local transportation agencey, those responsible for replacing and repairing road signs. In most cases the have stacks of used posts (cedar in my case) and they will sell them to you at a fairly low price. Some friends and I have bought over a hundred of them for a $1.00 ea. They are typically 12' long and after cutting the bad ends off, you get at least 8' on average from each post. They can be planned with a portable elec. planer, used as posts or deck boards 3" thick, fence posts ete.Broken concrete from sidewalks etc. People are always trying to get rid of that stuff, can be used as short walls, or like pavers albeit requiers a bit more work.If I was to do it over again, I would still pour the walls, in such a way that would best suit the intent of an addition, pavers inside the walls/footings or if I did the concrete I would use expansion material between the wall and slab to make for a clean break later on.Lastly, consider your future use not only for yourselves but also in the event you sell or, as in our case we plan to keep our little house and rent it out. Although my one pour was done in haste, it still benifits the yard and its use. Good luck !
*> in about 5-8 years we will remodel/enlarge our too-tiny houseI once heard a saying that "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". We bought our starter house in 1991. (A big time fixer-upper) I figured I could have it remodelled and sell it at a profit after about 5 years. Now, 11 years later, I'm about halfway done. (-:My point is that you may plan on adding on, but you never know what the future will bring. And things always take longer than you think they will. I don't think ther'll be much price difference between a deck and a patio. If you go with a deck, I sure as heck wouldn't use Trex, though. It's danged expensive, and will last a lot longer than that 5 to 8 year time frame you were thinking about. One other thought - How about a patio away from the house, where your remodel wouldn't require it to be demolished ?
*I dislike decks. Like porches or patios. Make your yard comfortable. Get a picnic table with a hole in it and stick a nice big umbrella in it.
*And now for some lateral thinking:Build a stand-alone deck (i.e. one that doesn't depend on a ledgerboard on the house as a support on one side; build one that is self-supporting all around). If and when you decide to do that big remodel; just lift the deck off its piers and move it to a temporary spot on blocks; a new set of piers can be built after construction and the deck is now at your new back door.
*Thank you everyone, for your thoughtful replies. Lots of good ideas here, for both deck and patio. Maybe we can do both, a nice simple WOOD deck for him, which I am sure I will enjoy too, and a patio for me. MONGO, could you re-explain "screw the deck boards down" to remove/reuse them?
*I would take a little time to design (or have designed) a deck that can disassembled and re-used: say 4'x4' panels on joists that are screwed into hangers on beams on pier blocks. Similiarly, you could purchase a load of flagstone and sand and have a nice patio that can be easily moved out of harms way when that "someday" comes.
*Put the new deck on skids then drag it out from the house when the time comes.
*Carla, You'll first build the deck structure...posts, bracing, joists, etc...the deck's "skeleton" so to speak. Most built that out of pressure treated lumber.Then you'll attach the deck boards on top of the joists. These are the boards that you'll walk on when the deck is completed. You can fasten them to the joists with nails or screws. If you nail them down, nails can work loose over time. And, if you need to remove a nailed board, it can be tough to do without damaging the board that needs to be removed, or boards adjacent to it.If you screw the deck boards down, when it comes time for removal you simply set your drill to reverse and back out the screws.Simple.Best screws would be stainless...they won't rust. They are pricey, but with the idea of removing the deck down the road thay may be worth it. regardless of what kind of screws (stainless, galvanized, etc) that you use, you may have better luck installing them and removing them if you use a "square drive" screw. Whatever you do, use "deck screws" and not drywall screws. Drywall screws will snap during installation and removal, and will fail while the deck is in use, potentially causing a collapse of the structure.One last option...if you do dissemble and move the deck, any deck boards that were damaged from use can be flipped over when you reassemble the deck, to put the damaged side down. There are limits to that idea, but it is an option.
*Let me add to the confusion already suffered. Do what looks the best with your yard setting. It is law now that you can keep a house for two years and sell with out paying taxes on the gain. When your house gets to tiny for you, sell it and expect top price for your improvements that were planned to start with. It is very hard to add on to a small house and have a gain. A small house usually always has that small living, dining ,kitchen,baths,master bedroom. Then some one says ;WE are going to add on !!!! Will the neiborhood support the bigger house if sold ?? You will want the same price per square foot as other bigger houses. Lets be real about how the floor plan will stack up as a bigger house. Small houses have a very good resale !!!My advice is not to change the small house. It will be very attractive to someone else. Improvements to match the house is money in the bank.Im an investor that sees this all the time. Just would like to save you from the mistake I've seen so many times.
*Gotta back Phill. Build the deck supports w/ carriage bolts. If you remodel the contractor will bring in equip for something. Cut the support legs pick it up and put it on new posts to fit the remodel. Moving piles of pavers to a new location and re packing the sand will take alot more time and energy. I recently had to do it w' brick. Doing brick or stone once is enough, twice will make you cry to heaven: Why me lord! (oops that was just me when I did it/ I'm sure you'll be fine either way)
*Build the deck. The average family lives in a house for 7 years. So, if you feel that in 5-8 years you'll be needing more space, the chances are your gonna move. The deck over the long haul is not going to cost that much. Eight years of Deck at a base cost of say 3k would come out to $31/month. If your doing it yourself, and your house is as small as you say, you may be able to cut that figure in half. Figure out your dimensions, go to Home Depot and get the numbers and figure out the math. May help you decide. Beside, if you decide to move up to a larger home the deck will not only add to your asking price, but will make it a more desirable home to purchase.
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My husband wants to build a small deck off the back of our starter house. (Currently there's no place in the yard to sit and relax). The concrete stoop outside back door, cracked and full of ants, would be removed. My concern is that in about 5-8 years we will remodel/enlarge our too-tiny house and deck would be demolished, thus losing the $ we invested. I thought a patio would be a wiser idea-- but we would still have to replace the stoop. Who do you think has the better idea? And if you think deck is good plan, would you suggest wood or Trek?
Thank you in advance for advice. I love your forum.
Carla