Hot Water Tanks, the pressure relief valve.
OK. I am getting mixed signals. Some say never touch the actuator valve to test and some say it should be tested regularly. The tag says to test annually. Most agree to do one or the other, if it is not tested don’t start.
Just put on a new one on an 80 gallon unit that was leaking. And yes, after I turned the water back on, bleed the air from the lines and lit the pilot, guess what, I tested it and it is leaking. Was not before I opened the valve.
Now I am a Builder, I have seen plumbers do it both ways. I have asked again. Some say they should be actuated and others say never touch them.
Is this just a bad design overall?
If they should not be tested than Why put the test lever on there?
Why not design them like a fire sprinkler valve that would break (open) under either heat or pressure?
Sure seems like a bum design to me. Why do they do it this way?
Replies
Well........they aren't made to be "tested" or used repeatedly. On the other hand when I refill a tank I have replaced I always open them to let the air out of the tank so yes they can be opened.
Usually what happens when a new one is opened and it leaks is some debri, either sedimate or debri from the new plumbing work gets in the seat of the valve and blocks it a little allowing a leak. Usually if you open it and let it drain a gallon or so it will clear itself and seal. DanT
Sometimes, when my energy is up and I am in the middle of something that is going well, I think - While I'm in the basement, I might as well ... This usually does not turn out well.
Recently, I was getting ready to replace my old water heater with a bigger one primarily because of intermittent problems with the heating elements, probably caused by sediment. Knowing I was going to make the replacement and with the new heater and all fittings on hand, I checked the relief valve. It did not reseal. I also went to drain the tank - and the drain did not work.
I would let sleeping dogs lie. I had my replacement water heater ready for installation in April 0f 2000. The old one had some signs of corrosion on the top and I felt it might fail. I didn't touch it until the replacement in July of 2004.
The whole job took a half hour, probably less time than it would have taken me to mess with a leaking valve.
The label also says to remove it and have it tested by a plumber every 3 years.
Want to get a blank stare?
Ask any plumber what s/he does for such a test.
HI's don't test 'em becasue they frequently stay open.
If one doen't completely close try: opening & closing rapidly a few times (in case there is sediment under the seal) or _lightly_ tapping on the valev stem.
The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I did read most of the tag and did not pick up on your point that Plumbers need to test them every three years. Like that has ever happened.
Goes back one of my questions. Isn't this a bad design?
How about eliminating the test valve and use a plug that is temperature/presure sensitive, coat the outside with teflon so nothing sticks to it? Then if it blows it blows, the only problem would be it would keep on flowing.
Mine says to have a plumber check every three years - perhaps it is (i) one manyfacturer's instruction or (ii) a recent requirement (my heatr is 6 years old.)
Since valves will sometimes pop and reset (for reasons which I don't know) and there is no apparent long term problem, there has to be some way to shut off the flow.The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
OK, I agree they do go off occasionally. Either temperature or pressure, right? It is supposed to be a safety valve since water expands 28 X its volume. But what went wrong? That means something else is wrong. If it is not broken, don't fix it, but maybe it is not the valve.
When I was 12 years old ( I'm 45 now), there was this homeowner who lived at the bottom of our street. He must have gotten tired of his leaky pop-off valve and jury- rigged it closed ..or else the thing simply failed...I don't know which...but I do remember seeing his 2 story house blown to bits by his hot water tanking rocketing up thru the basement, thru the 1st floor, thru the 2nd floor, and exiting out thru the roof and landing a block away.
The house was torn up so bad, it had to be demolished, and a pre-fabbed unit was later errected on this site.
Davo
Speaking of hot-water tanks, please, please install drip legs that extend down to about 1 inch from the floor. It's important that this tube be installed; especially if you have children. Without a drip leg, a child or person can be scalded with hot water should the valve suddenly open up.
Although this is definately a code violation if not installed...as a former HUD inspector, I've seen many a home without a drip leg attached to the pop-off valve. ...of course, those situations were immediately rectified.
Davo
Excellant reminder. I'm amazed at how many P/T valves I see without extensions which aim right at the washer or similar stuff.
FWIW, some areas call for the P/T pipe to end 6" - 8" above the floor, and some that distance above a drain.
Too close to the floor and I think there is a concern with discharge "squirting" sideways.The key to forgiving others is to quit focusing on what they did to you, and start focusing on what God did for you. Max Lucado
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
"some areas call for pipe to end 6 - 8 inches above floor..."
Yes, you are right, infact, International Residential Code (IRC) states discharge pipe should be no more than 6 inches above floor.
"too close to floor and there is concern about discharge squirting sideways..."
Yes, again, you are right. I think the range is actually something like 3 to 6 inches above floor, with about 4 inches being the norm....I think. I would have to look it up to be sure.
Davo
To All, In my neck of the woods, central Arizona, code is for the T/P valve to be "daylighted", to the exterior of the home, with a 90, pointed down, apprx. 4" to 6" above grade. Jim J
An amature skydiver descending rapidly and desparately trying to get his chute to open, passed a homeowner going up, skydiver yells"Hey man you know anything about a parachute ?"
Homeowner yells back "Naw man you know anything about a water heater? "George Bush
FOUR MORE YEARS
A professional skydiver gets his buddy to go on a jump with him. The buddy is clearly nervous....the pro looks at him and says, don't worry, if you get into any trouble with your chute, just yell out, " Buddha! Buddha! Save me!"...and he will. With that bit of advice the pair jumped out of the plane. On the way to the ground, the newbie's chute didn't open...nor did the reserve...in a desperate panic, he cried out in a shrill voice; "PLEASE...Buddha, Buddha, Save me Buddha!"
All of a sudden these 2 big hands come from out the sky and catch the fallen jumper high above the ground...The relieved jumper sighs "Oh,.. thank God..." whereupon hearing these words, the jumper was promptly let go as Buddha's hands decidely dropped him!
OK I agree it must remain as a valve.
Started to take a survey. About 75% of the plumbers I talk to never touch the valve after installation and never actuate them. I ask why, some respond because they leak.
Leak reduced over several days but did not stop. Also had to wait to get the 200,000Btu replacement, they only had one. Changed out the Watts regulator. There was a piece of flashing from the casting caught in the valve. Now I will have to contact Watts to try to get it replaced and my money back, the plumbing store does not take them back, probably have trouble from the manufacturer with returns.
Jeff,
Try closing the hot water feed valve and almost closing the cold inlet. Open the safety valve, then finish closing the cold inlet. After all pressure is relieved, close the safety valve and return the system to operation.
I'm thinking that the spurt of water out of the valve will help flush any debris and then it might close easier with no pressure under it.
SamT
I like your idea. Will try it next time.
Put in a new T&P valve, Watts. As it turned out there was a large piece of brass flashing about 1" long from manufacturing caught in the valve. Now trying to get Watts to respond to get money back, could be interesting.
Thanks.
Of course you could just have hired a plumber. DanT
OK, as a plumber. When you install a new T&P valve do you actuate the valve after the install?
As a plumber, I end up replacing a lot of water heaters. I usually open (or try to open) the relief valve to let more air into the old tank when I drain the water out of it. I've lost count of the number of relief valves that are stuck closed and if you can't open one manually, it won't open under pressure or high temperature either.
It's good policy to test the relief valve at least annually. If it leaks after testing, put a bucket under the discharge tube and flush it out good - if it still leaks replace it. Isn't it worth the cost of a relief valve to not risk demolishing the house and the possible loss of life if the tank blows?
You make a good point there.
I was the first guy to answer. I said I always open up the valve to allow air out to fill the tank quicker. I also said if it fails to seal it usually is debri from the tank/or plumbing repair in the valve. Snap it open a couple of times letting some water out each time usually cures it. DanT
Thank you DanT. I did read it and respect your opinion. Did not work in my instance because of the metal flashing. Further, I appreciate that you do test P&T valves. This is partly what is getting under my craw. It is a safety device, it is supposed to be tested at a minimum when it is installed or once annually according to the instructions. Why then do such a large percentage of plumbers not test it? The reply usually is because they leak. Can you imagine, you install a new valve, there is a catastrophic failure, the investigator asks you "After you installed the new safety valve did you operate it?"
As much as I would like to claim I do it to test it as I said I really open it to get the air out of the tank faster so I can leave LOL! But I can't remember not being able to get a new one to reseat. So I simply never thought about it as a problem. Sure it took a couple of tries sometimes but I really never gave it a thought.
Now I have replaced them after they were in use and found that they seem to go bad in homes with the tempature turned up higher than in homes with lower tempature settings. I always concluded that the heat took some of the temper out of the spring. DanT
Thank you for the responses and reassurance. Other people are calling me crazy for actuating the valve. Best of luck.
I had a T&P that rattled loudly, rapidly opening and closing. The spring seems to wear out after awhile, maybe from being hot all the time.