Replies

1. 
   Thumbsmasher | Nov 06, 2003 04:45am | #1

   From an energy efficiency standpoint, hydronic heat is many times more efficient than electric heat. For me, the discussion ends here.

1. 
   Elliemae | Nov 06, 2003 06:26am | #5

   Okay.  For the source, any ideas re: boiler?  Oil based, electric or propane?  We have propane only available.  Seems like out here (WA), propane and electric rates ended up fairly similar when we looked into changing our furnace from electric to propane.  They may have changed since then.

   By using water, do you have any problems with maintenance?  Can the mineral stuff build up or could we just start the sealed system with filtered/bottled stuff?

   Thanks for the quick replies!

1. 
   csnow | Nov 06, 2003 07:41pm | #8

   I do not know your electric rates, but here in the northeast, electric resistive heat has generally been about 3 times more expensive to operate than oil or piped natural gas (in recent history).  Just about every home built when electricity was cheap has been converted to oil or gas.

   Propane is significantly more expensive than oil here, so oil is the 'rural' fuel of choice.

   But hey, you have hydro-electric dams out there, so your situation may be different.

   A closed hot water heating system is not likely to have problems with typical mineral content.  pH can be an issue.  The fill water can be filtered or treated with additives.  This is probably not a significant factor in your decision.

1. 
   moltenmetal | Nov 06, 2003 10:53pm | #9

   I think you'll be happy with the choice of hydronic heating- and the pros on this forum are a great help in making the right design decisions so you get a system that's right for you.

   If you're going with electricity as the source of heat for your hydronic system, it would make sense to at least use the electricity to run a heat pump.  For every watt of electricity you put into a resistive heater, you get a watt of heat into your space- 100% "efficiency", virtually irrespective of temperature.  Sounds great, but- for every watt of electricity you put into the motor of a heat pump, you get most of that watt back plus between 1 and 3 watts of heat pumped from the cold reservoir (i.e. the outdoor air, or from the groundwater if that's an option for you).  That's an "efficiency", in terms of watts of heat into your house per watt of electricity used, of 200-400%.  At worst, on the coldest day, it's still more efficient than a resistive heater.  The downside- they cost more, and need more maintenance. 

   Many heat pump units can be used for cooling in summer, though I'd be worried that the hydronic method of distributing the cooling may cause you some serious moisture problems.  Perhaps for a few extra bucks you could use the heat pump compressor to supply a conventional air conditioner system in summer and to pump heat into a hydronic distribution system in winter- but a HVAC pro would have to comment on whether such a beast would be sensible and cost effective.

   If operating cost is your only concern, you're better off burning a fossil fuel to make your heat unless you can buy "time of use-metered" power "off peak" at night for a very low price and use a huge heat storage system (i.e. thick concrete slabs and walls) to release heat to the house hot during the rest of the day.  Heating oil is probably cheaper than propane.  That might flip in a few years, but I doubt it.

1. 
   Elliemae | Nov 07, 2003 07:01am | #10

   Thanks.  A contractor has recommended the oil fired boiler.  Since we live on an island in the Puget Sound, we actually don't need air conditioning out here, except for maybe 1 or 2 days of the year (like the week after my 2nd was born and I was sweating like a pig on the sofa!)

   I think that about wraps it up.  A friend mentioned possible EMF stuff from electric too, but he may be a bit over the top re: safety.

   Elliemae

2. 
   BillHartmann | Nov 06, 2003 08:32am | #6

   "From an energy efficiency standpoint, hydronic heat is many times more efficient than electric heat."

   Wrong.

   "For me, the discussion ends here."

   Only because you don't know what you are talking about.

   First you are comparing two DIFFERENT things.

   Hydronic returns to a way of DELIVERING heat, not the source of the energy. The source of the energy can be wood, gas, oil, coal, solar, heat pumps, and even electrical boilers.

   Electric heat is a source of ENERGY, not a way of delivering it. Electric heat can be delivered by radiant or convective methods.

   Now as to EFFICIENCY, the efficiency is the amount of usefull energy delivered vs the energy from the source. For resistive electrical heat that is 100%. But modern oil or gas or in the 80-90% range.

2. 
   CloudHidden | Nov 06, 2003 04:53am | #2

   I don't recall seeing the electric ever recommended for large areas....just renos of baths and other smaller areas where you can run it for small amts of time. Cost would be high compared to hydronic.

1. 
   caseyr | Nov 06, 2003 05:17am | #3

   As others have said, at present, the operating costs probably favor hydronic - unless you are in an area with unusually low electrical costs and high costs to deliver fuel for hydronic heating source, although even then you would probably get lower operating costs with a heat pump supplying heat for hydronic. 

1. 
   Sicilian | Nov 06, 2003 05:37am | #4

   I also agree with hydronic, and mainly cost will be an issue depending on where you live.  I once ran a couple of those electric upright radiators for a couple of weeks and my electric bill was over $200 for one month.  Everything here pretty much uses gas. 

   I couldn't imagine running a meter for heat in this part of NY.  We have one of the largest power generators in the country in Niagara Falls, and will still have some of the highest electrics rates in the country.  All that power from Niagara Falls flows down the river to NY City and suburbs.

   The Sicilian

2. 
   BillHartmann | Nov 06, 2003 08:34am | #7

   "

   I don't recall seeing the electric ever recommended for large areas."

   That is surprising as I though that you heated your whole house with electrically sourced hydro heat system.