Does anyone know where I might find a roll of paper that is 4′ wide? I need to sheet the ceiling of a 1400 sq. ft. house with drywall. This is a remodel that I’ve been doing in my spare time. I have an old drywall lift but no money for labor. There are numerous can lights, AC registers and speaker outlets to cut around. I’ll be using 1/2″ drywall in 12′ lengths to minimize the seams. I’m hoping to use paper as a template by placing it across the joists and shading the outline of each opening with a pencil. I’ve already bought the drywall and I hope to start on this over the holidays. I’d appreciate any suggestions.
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
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rotozip be a lot easier
Tape two or more pieces of just about any paper, together, to get your 4 feet wide.
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If you could get an experienced fellow to help you for ONE day, most (if not all) of that board would be on the ceiling.
Never heard of making a pattern.
Good Luck, Harry
Is the floor clear and flat?
If it is ... you could use a laser plumb bob to mark the sheets while they're on the floor, or supported by horses.
Otherwise, look to priners ... newspapers, the folks who print sandwich wrappers, publishers like RR Donnelly ... chances are, they have stock that wide, and would let you have the end of a roll.
Edited 11/23/2008 3:42 pm ET by renosteinke
Edited 11/23/2008 3:43 pm ET by renosteinke
The floor is clear and flat enough, but I'm not sure how square it is. That's a very creative idea though.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Ditto the rotozip . I've got a Porter cable drywall cutter for cheap if you like.
I've got a rotozip and I know it's makes cutting pretty easy. My problem is making sure I cut only what needs to be cut. I'm not a pro like you guys.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
If you go one sheet at a time (is there any other way?) you just measure over from the last sheet or the wall in each direction to find the approximate center of the light, speaker, etc. Make an "X" at that point. Put a few screws in the sheet, plunge the rotozip into your "X" and move it sideways to find the edge of your obstruction. Jump to the other side of the obstruction and run the rotozip around it. You'll have a few misses but they're easy enought to fix--a lot easier than trying to hold 4' paper on the ceiling while you make a pattern!
I think that red rosin paper is like 30-36". otherwise, check with a printing place that has a 4 color web press. They'll have big paper or know where to get it...
The lights are easy. Turn um on, cover with drywall. They will heat up then cut them out with a rotozip. For the registers I just measure from nearest reference points and do the same.
If you try to template everything you'll still be doing this next Thanksgiving.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
The other option, Use a plumb. Mark the floor with the locations then cut out from markings.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
"Does anyone know where I might find a roll of paper that is 4' wide?"
yes - 'Mafcote', formerly 'Wabash Paper Coating' has tons and tons of 48" paper rolls -
they give the roll ends away for free - I keep a few on hand for utility purposes - and they are real handy -
I'll ship you a roll end for the cost of shipping if you are interested - they are relatively heavy -
You won't be a happy camper trying to template over your head with sheets of paper.
Lacking a rotozip, your best and fastest process would be to measure on the x, y axis and transfer those measurements to the rock.
I've done it this way for years and usually get within a 16th. I back cut a couple of degrees from the line so the hole is slightly larger on the back of the board and when I lift the panel to the ceiling a couple of swipes with a utility knife on the face, if necessary, makes for an accurate fit. Don't just jam the panel up and you won't have any break outs if you miss a little.
Remember you're working upside down so take care to measure from the correct end or side of the board. Also, since it's the ceiling you can fudge the edges a bit because the wall rock will hide the slop.
Like others have said. For this job. Get a price to fit and finish, might be way less than you expect.
Just mark the holes as you go or plumb line to a mark made on the floor, marking tape is fine to use.
Use a rotozip counter clockwise around the outside of a "rim" or clockwise on the inside of a cutout.
Third hand type tool helps push up the drywall where you need to. But your lift should be enought.
Ping a line to follow if the place is way off and piece both sides of the ceiling.
Try using the rotozip, you wont regret it once you get the hang of it. Put a few screws in the sheet away from what your cutting out, this will put a little pressure on it and allow the light to pop through after you finish your cut. Mark out the whole cutout or mark the absoulte center of if your unsure make a small hole in what you think is the middle to stick your finger in then youll get a good mental picture.
Youve got a lift try cutting one out, if unsure let the peice down a little and check it out, go counter clockwise when cutting around the outside of the lights. I made a few mistakes when I first used it but their not too tough to fix, now I try not to let anyone else get their hands on the rotozip because I enjoy using it. If you take your time youll get and you wont regret going this rout.
I think youll find you will make more errors trying to template it out- really. My first boss wouldnt use a rotozip and we would mark them and cut on sawhorses, we were always pulling the sheet down and redoing or would need bigger covers for the fixtures, its not worth it.
you could skip the paper and use a tape measure.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
If you use a tape measure (I recommend it) put the board you are going to mark in a place where it is below and off to the side.
This is like orienting a map so it matches the terrain.
So orient the board in a way you can rotate the measurements from the ceiling down to the board. The first couple will bend your brain a bit but after that you will have it.
When you have the board oriented it helps to look at the ceiling and then look at the board and back again. Like you are transferring a mental picture from one to the other.
You can do this.
Do this every time. When I get lazy and don't orient the board there is a high likelihood of getting it backwards.
When you transfer the measurements to the board draw out the cutouts. shade them in if you have to. A big X in the middle might be enough. These visual aids will help.
You can also mark the ceiling joists while it is on the ground. just keep in mind that heavy carpenter pencil lines will show when it is painted. you can do just dashed lines and go light with it. But the cutouts for the light can be bold if it helps you visualize them better.
When I did it commercially we had one guy up taking the measurements and one guy marking them on the board. You always measure from the board or wall next to it over the same way every time. Don't get fancy. It's just x y stuff. But the same way every time. When you get cocky you mess up.
Also, with two people you usually mess up less. If it looks wonky drawn on the board one of you will catch it.
Go to an art supplies store, you will find good heavy duty paper there close to 4" wide.
I did this when designing the tile for my small bathroom. I covered up the studs and concrete floor with white paper, then drew what I wanted it to look like. After that, I got some tiles that I thought would work for my plan. I ran them across a basic paper scanner and printed 8.5x11 sheets of tiles (I had to tape them together to make the right sizes) and them taped them up to the paper so I could actually SEE if what I wanted to do would work.
I was very happy with the result.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Tu stultus es
if u have a drywall lift use allittle dishdetergent on all can lights and registers then line up all corners where they need to be and press the peice agianst the lights cut them out.
Yup, templating for ceiling drywall with paper would be a royal pain in the a$$. A drywall lift is probably the best money ever spent on a project, least expensive helper you could ever hire; Third Hand or props and such are silly and still unwieldy. X-Y locating for cut outs works just fine, and the rotozip will be much easier than hand marking and cutting. Lipstick works great. I've also used lumber crayon in a pinch.
You could take some lipstick or something similar and coat the edges of whatever is on the ceiling, then lift the board into position, contacting the lipstick. Lower the board and there are your marks.
I only mention his because you said you have a lift.
If you really don't want to go the Rotozip route, think about spend some time with a tape like Mr. Dragonic and popawheelie suggested. It's not as hard as you'd think, if you approach it systematically.
Just remember to alway measure from the same walls!
I have CDO.
It's like OCD, only the letters are in alphabetical order like they're supposed to be.
http://www.truenorthcarpentry.net
Edited 11/24/2008 5:56 am by True North
The coolest template material is corragated plastic board. My granite guy uses it and it is way cool.
You can see through it draw on it and it is stiff enough to handle by yourself and you can crease it and fold it up for storage.
I like using it for wet walls to use later after the sheetrock is up.
I fold it up and give it to homeowner so he can break it out if there is a need.
ANDYSZ2
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
I saw a tip here, maybe from Mike Smith.
Get a tube or two of lipstick. Rub it on your protrusions. Crank up the drywall to it's tight...maybe press up by hand. Crank the board down a bit. Cut the openings out from the market openings. Crank back up and fasten.
Easy peasy.
Todd
I don't know about the op, but if I rub lipstick on my protrusions...........I'll be looking for a place to stay.
Bing
LMAOAROTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You don't know what you are missing...
To answer your original question: Any newspaper will have end rolls that are 48-inches wide. If you need heavier paper, it is available in various weight for use with plan plotters, any good drafting or art supply place will have it, or you can order from thousands of places online.
That said, I'll think you're on bad drugs if actually try to do templates on the ceiling.
As others have said just measure it up using some kind of x,y coordinate system, and cut on the floor. If your worried about damaging the floor, put down a sheet of 1-inch thick foam to cut on.
You could always use clear VISQUEEN and a sharpie marker, or Titainium UDL roof underlayment..that is 5' and the vis is what ever you buy, but 8' min. IIRC.
But I'm on board with the others , well most of the others, I'd never dream of lipstick, but measure and mark is my way...and I don't use a rotozip. But then again, I don't do much drywall.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
construction paper come in that size, its brown, at home depot
Thanks for all the suggestions. I plan to use them.
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Hey man, how bout some pics of what you've been doing.
and maybe a partial answer to the question-how close to your initial budget estimate. I'm hoping for you that it's still within sight.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"Hey man, how bout some pics of what you've been doing.and maybe a partial answer to the question-how close to your initial budget estimate. I'm hoping for you that it's still within sight."
I've had this project on hold for quite awhile. The building permit was issued November 2006. The house is basically finished outside, but the interior is still stripped to the studs. I got really burned out after redoing the exterior, then I ran out of money and credit. I managed to rough in the HVAC, plumbing and most of the wiring. I've got enough materials to insulate and drywall, but then I'll be back on hold again. I still need cabinets, appliances, flooring, and trim materials. In other words, I'm a long ways from done. The upside is that the house is paid for and I'm not living in it...yet.
This project was a big mistake for me. I had the will, and some of the skill, but I greatly underestimated the bill. I'm way in over my head and I won't be able to finish it anytime soon.
It would probably have been a good flip for one of you guys, but for a diy'er like me, it's been a disaster. New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Sorry to hear this mw, I was really pulling for you eventho I could see your excitement and the volume of work you might not have seen to acheive the dream.
So once I again I'll send you the best of luck. Stay in touch. It's going to be grand when you finish.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
You have the lift and that's the key component.
Please please please, take it from someone who has worked solo, learn to use the rotozip.
I totally butchered the first few rotozip cuts I made, and it was discouraging, but once you get the hang of it you'll do the job in about 20% the time it would take you to do the paper roll templating.
I'd find wrestling with paper templates on a ceiling to be much more frustrating than trying to learn to use a rotozip.
Time to learn a new skill and save yourself several days worth of frustration.
I to agree with every one else about the rotozip it will be your best friend. but i think we have all missed one vital step in telling you that there is a special bit to put on the rotozip that helps you from going threw everything except the sheet rock. and like one of the guys said it would be worth its weight in gold to even pay a guy half a day to give you a couple starter points cause it is sometimes the tricks off the trade that make all the difference take it from the rest of these guys. about 90% said don't template. even the measuring tape idea is better. but don't take my word for it.
If you insist on making a template, find a local paper company and buy sheets of 4x8 cardboard.
Please Use ur tape mesure and a rotozip It's so simple
>>Does anyone know where I might find a roll of paper that is 4' wide?<<
Not 4' exactly but, 54" or 108" wide rolls of paper are readily available at decent camera stores.
The rolls cut readily with a chop saw to whatever width you want.
That being said, I would not even attempt to make a pattern. Hang and RotoZip openings in place. A few simple dimensions to locate approximate opening centers is all that would be needed.
See also post # 103433.22 which contains a set of instructions on RotoZip use which I wrote some time ago. Some found them very helpful.
The instructions pertain specifically to cutting around electrical boxes, but the same principals apply to heat ducts, door and window openings, etc.
Learn to use the tool and you will never go back.
Jim
Edited to include old post number reference.
Edited 11/27/2008 9:45 am ET by JTC1
buy a tape measure.....
All I ever wanted in life was an unfair advantage...
MW, Any dollar store has poster board. Three for a buck. I use then for large templates (patterns) I make for projects. Just lay the sheets on a flat surface and masking tape them together try to overlap the joints for added rigidity. After it is secure, flip it over and tape the opposite side
The now (larger) sheet can be rolled up on a tube, so you can maneuver the template easily enough into place To prevent the template from shifting, first cut a bunch of 1-1/2" square holes through about every square foot, so you can stick the template securely.to the rock using wide masking tape.
Steinmetz.