Impact resistant sidelites for security?
PeteBradley
| Posted in General Discussion on
Bought a replacement door unit (Thermatru 3/0 fiberglass with 1/0 sidelites) on each side through my regular building supply. I ordered impact resistant glass to make it harder for someone to bust the glass and just open the door.
Door came in built with regular glass. The distributor that built the door offered to replace the glass onsite when it comes in, but they’re also saying impact resistant is really just for wind so don’t bother.
What’s the real story? I know that if the bad guys really want in, they’re gonna get in, but I don’t want the door to be the path of least resistance.
Pete
Edited 10/24/2008 12:26 pm ET by PeteBradley
Replies
what about security glass with the wire mesh embedded in it?
T-Tru doesn't offer wire mesh, and I think most customers wouldn't want it on the front of their house. The distributor has offered to replace the glass in 4 weeks. I'm just asking if there's any validity to the claim that impact resistant isn't worth buying for security.Frenchy, good thought, but the door is already built.Pete
Edited 10/24/2008 12:27 pm ET by PeteBradley
I would think if the wind resistance is 140 mph it would be pretty hard to break. Of course, a determined theif will always get in.
It should make it way harder to break if nothing else.
Wire glass isn't an impact-safety product. Although still fire-rated, it actually has only about 60% of the impact strength of ordinary annealed (window) glass of the same thickness. It is not suitable for use in any application that requires safety glazing - such as in a door or in a sidelite.
Typically, laminated glass intended for home security applications (other than hurricane-impact) is going to be constructed using a .060" polyvinyl butyral (PVB)interlayer bonded between a couple of 1/8" (give or take) glass lites. Hurricane-impact rated products, on the other hand, use several different types of interlayers typically ranging in thickness from .075" to .105"; while basic safety-rated laminated glass typically uses a .030" PVB interlayer sandwiched between the glass. Different products for different applications.
As mentioned by several posters, doors and windows intended for use as hurricane-impact resistant products will almost always (there are a few exceptions) be manufactured using upgraded hardware, reinforced frames, etc. But, doors and windows that are intended for security applications are not typically reinforced to the level that a hurricane-impact door or window would require.
Did you specifically purchase an hurricane-impact rated door or could it have been a standard door with security rated laminated glass? I don't know Therma-Tru's product lines well enough to know if they offer both options or not, but many companies do have different products for different applications including separate impact and security lines.
All that said, if you were concerned about protecting your home from flying debris during a hurricane, then you would probably not want to simply install laminated glass into the existing door and hope for the best. However, if your concern is keeping bad guys out, then glazing the laminated glass into the exisiting door may be an acceptable option. It is possible that that is what would have happened at the factory if your door was simply an upgrade to security resistance rather than to hurricane-impact resistance.
Edited 10/26/2008 8:03 pm ET by Oberon
order a wider door with side lites too narrow to permit access.. you might want a double door which means the handles are also out of reach from either side lite
Edited 10/24/2008 8:15 am ET by frenchy
Are the sidelights "regular" glass, or tempered safety glass? Around here, code requires tempered safety glass for sidelights and it's pretty resistant to breakage.
Plexiglass or Lexan(?) are even more resistant, but I don't like their "look".
You could get a double key lock to make it harder to get in.
Is impact resistant glass the same as laminated glass? That seems like it would be harder to break through--but probably not imposible. I wonder if the glass gets stronger, the weak point become how the glass assembly is attached to the door framing.
The door is double bored. The sidelite is about 6" from the locks, so if you can break the glass, you can just reach in and unlock. I wouldn't want to use a double key lock as this door is the primary way out in case of fire.Regular and impact resistant are both double pane construction. Regular uses tempered glass (at least on the inside). Impact resistant is one sheet of tempered one sheet of laminated, with a reinforced frame holding it in. From what I've seen, tempered glass is tough if you hit it in the middle with something rounded, but blows to smithereens if you get it with something sharp or at an edge.Pete
Edited 10/24/2008 10:59 am ET by PeteBradley
Get have some window security film applied.http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/WF/3MWindowFilms/Solutions/Commercial/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQGG85_nid=V89BD8K9N7beT4DCJBL6BVglMost likely you will have to have it done. Hard to get security film
for DIY, but possible.There are other brands. .
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Pete,
I live in Fla. and do alot with impact glass.
Yes, it would make it alot harder to break in as that is one of the selling points aside from hurricanewind protection. Sound attentuation is also a plus.
I would be concerned about the idea of just installing impact panels into the existing frames that came with regular glass as the idea of the strength of these and many windows is the way the whole assembly is mounted. Not saying it can't be done but its not just like reglazing a small piece of glass. I would hate to see impact glass put in and then someone can just push the whole glass assembly out of the frame and defeat your original purpose.
Mike
Mike, Thanks. I called T-Tru's support line and they tell me the impact resistant unit has a different frame as well as the glass. I can't say I was impressed by their guy, but now I've got two conflicting stories. I told the building supply I'd have to have one delivered with the right components. They weren't happy since they trust their supplier, but they're doing it.Pete
Edited 10/24/2008 12:28 pm ET by PeteBradley
Pete,
I figured they would be different. Glad you found out from T-Tru. At least know you can tell the supplier you knew they were different and make them correct it...especially since you likely paid more for it!
Mike
Yup, if I recall correctly, it was about a $300 upcharge. The distributor (the guys who built the unit) are swearing to the building supply that T-Tru was wrong, and maybe that's so. With two conflicting stories, the only thing I know for certain is what I ordered from the building supply, so I've got to stick to that.Pete
Pete,
Well, the good thing is it sounds like you have the paperwork to indicate what you ordered.
And the industry convention is that MOST impact windows and doors are built differently from those with regular glass. Have a look at any PGT or Simonton assembly and it will indicate different construction and mounting for the impact ones. I would lean towards the T-Tru folks being right as they could probably provide you with the exact engineering cut sheet that match what you ordered. It may even be available already on their web site?
Good luck!
Mike
I have to choose a new front entry door soon and think I'm going with fiberglass. I talked to a ThermaTru rep but is there another brand I should be looking at to compare? Is a ThermaTru door one I can expect to last a long time?
Thanks!
GregT
I believe Thermatru is pretty middle of the road in price and quality. They have several different lines to choose from. Others can comment on some of the higher end brands.Pete
Pete,
The double key dead bolt is about the only way to go on a front door with sidelights. Keeping the key in a hidden but close proximity isn't really any different than hiding those extra keys that come with all the locks you use around the house and buildings... One an average night, I leave the key part way into the inside lock. I figure that if a sidelight or door glass is broken, my "Smith and Wesson" alarm system should stop any flailing arm or hand from getting the lock open. I remove the key from the door if we're gone.
Once inside, consider that a double key dead bolt also keeps the locked door from being a big exit for a thief carrying out the Plasma or LCD TV, or other big ticket items.
Check to see if your front door purchase had locking hinges. Half the hinge has a hole in it, and the other half has a short pin. When it closes the hole covers the pin. Once the door is closed, even if the standard size hinge pins are removed, locking hinges will not let the two hinge parts slide passed each other, even if that edge of the is kicked over and over. The heavier model you should have gotten may have these as standard. With the dead bolt double key locks with reinforced metal jamb plates and long hardened screws through the metal and jambs on all my outside doors, I also have the locking hinges installed, too.
You may not be able to stop them 100% of the time, but slowing them down and making it hard will make the bad guy think twice and move on.
Bill
If you have sidelights with real 150 mph "large missile" impact protection a guy with a hammer is not coming in. They shoot 2x4s out of an air cannon at these things to test them.
I agree with Mike, this is not just a bullet proof glazing panel in a regular door. It is an engineered assembly from the poured doweled cells in the door frame to the glass. In a place like Florida that requires this, there are a few inspections along the way to be sure it is all there. One at cell pour time, one at "buck" time and one after the window/door is in.